100 Days to Scottish Independence Referendum

[Ghostrider]

.....you are voting to decide to what degree your future votes will represent the government you get.

 

Absolutely zero. The only vote that will count for anything practical in an independent Scotland will be the socialist one, so seeing as mine would be more likely Tory or perhaps UKIP, there's only loss in it for me. Staying with the UK, however, there's a better chance of getting it my way sometimes.

[Distortio]

 

 

yes, we all know it's their aim, the clue's in the name... but THIS. IS. A. REFERENDUM. you vote YES or NO. nothing more. you are not voting for a political party. you are voting to decide to what degree your future votes will represent the government you get.

 

 

right, i'm off to vote. (YES in case anyone was unsure) 

 

see ya.

 

We all know that it's a referendum but, the whole point of the referendum is to confirm the level of support (or otherwise) of a particular parties 'vision' of Scotland's future.  Therefore, it IS a vote for the SNP...

 

 

ok, simple question then:  say there's a referendum on europe... if someone voted to stay in, which particular party would they be voting for?

[Distortio]

 

.....you are voting to decide to what degree your future votes will represent the government you get.

 

Absolutely zero. The only vote that will count for anything practical in an independent Scotland will be the socialist one, so seeing as mine would be more likely Tory or perhaps UKIP, there's only loss in it for me. Staying with the UK, however, there's a better chance of getting it my way sometimes.

 

 

so you'd prefer to make scotland's democratic voice irrelevant by lumping it in with england's votes because it favours your own right wing views? 

 

nuff said.

 

 

or hey, why not declare your house an independent state and try and make a union with france? they're a bit right wing now aren't they?

[Ghostrider]

 

 

.....you are voting to decide to what degree your future votes will represent the government you get.

 

Absolutely zero. The only vote that will count for anything practical in an independent Scotland will be the socialist one, so seeing as mine would be more likely Tory or perhaps UKIP, there's only loss in it for me. Staying with the UK, however, there's a better chance of getting it my way sometimes.

 

 

so you'd prefer to make scotland's democratic voice irrelevant by lumping it in with england's votes because it favours your own right wing views? 

 

Nope. Scotland can do whatever it likes, I don't consider myself Scottish, and Shetland is only part of Scotland by victim of circumstance in my book, not choice.

 

Scotland can exercise their democratic voice if they want, perhaps they are right that a Union with England is no longer the thing for them. My contention though is that as a part of the UK Shetland doesn't share in whatever preceived problem Mainland Scotland has with a union with England, and we should stick with the status quo, As remaining tacked on to a Scotland which is outwith of a Union with England is going to be a hell of a lot worse for us than whatever problem Mainland Scotland preceives ails their current union with England.

[Ghostrider]

ok, simple question then:  say there's a referendum on europe... if someone voted to stay in, which particular party would they be voting for?

 

Not a like with like comparison with the Scottish Referendum. Principally as we do not quite (as yet anyway) have a single European Government and only a relatively impotent minor legislature body in each member state.

[Distortio]

 

 

 

.....you are voting to decide to what degree your future votes will represent the government you get.

 

Absolutely zero. The only vote that will count for anything practical in an independent Scotland will be the socialist one, so seeing as mine would be more likely Tory or perhaps UKIP, there's only loss in it for me. Staying with the UK, however, there's a better chance of getting it my way sometimes.

 

 

so you'd prefer to make scotland's democratic voice irrelevant by lumping it in with england's votes because it favours your own right wing views? 

 

Shetland doesn't share in whatever preceived problem Mainland Scotland has with a union with England, and we should stick with the status quo, As remaining tacked on to a Scotland which is outwith of a Union with England is going to be a hell of a lot worse for us than whatever problem Mainland Scotland preceives ails their current union with England.

 

 

that rather flies in the face of what you said before about holyrood and westminster being as bad as each other, though i suspect that was largely an auto-dismissive response.

 

but surely your democratic voice for more autonomy for shetland would be better heard in an independent scotland than having to shout all the way to westminster?

 

 

ok, simple question then:  say there's a referendum on europe... if someone voted to stay in, which particular party would they be voting for?

 

Not a like with like comparison with the Scottish Referendum. Principally as we do not quite (as yet anyway) have a single European Government and only a relatively impotent minor legislature body in each member state.

 

 

irrelevant. the point i was making was that voting one way or another in a referendum isn't the same as voting for a particular party.

[Colin]

"ok, simple question then:  say there's a referendum on europe... if someone voted to stay in, which particular party would they be voting for?"

 

Not a simple question but, a different one that is not related at all and, a strange argument to put... 

However, seeing as all 3 main parties seem to be, largely, in support of continued membership, I wouldn't be voting for any of them, I would be voting NO

[Distortio]

"ok, simple question then:  say there's a referendum on europe... if someone voted to stay in, which particular party would they be voting for?"

 

Not a simple question but, a different one that is not related at all and, a strange argument to put... 

However, seeing as all 3 main parties seem to be, largely, in support of continued membership, I wouldn't be voting for any of them, I would be voting NO

 

[sigh] well yes, that much i could guess, but it wasn't the question. ok, say you vote 'no'. that's not the same as voting for your beloved ukips. there are other parties that support a 'no' position.

[Ghostrider]

 

 

 

 

.....you are voting to decide to what degree your future votes will represent the government you get.

 

Absolutely zero. The only vote that will count for anything practical in an independent Scotland will be the socialist one, so seeing as mine would be more likely Tory or perhaps UKIP, there's only loss in it for me. Staying with the UK, however, there's a better chance of getting it my way sometimes.

 

 

so you'd prefer to make scotland's democratic voice irrelevant by lumping it in with england's votes because it favours your own right wing views? 

 

Shetland doesn't share in whatever preceived problem Mainland Scotland has with a union with England, and we should stick with the status quo, As remaining tacked on to a Scotland which is outwith of a Union with England is going to be a hell of a lot worse for us than whatever problem Mainland Scotland preceives ails their current union with England.

 

 

that rather flies in the face of what you said before about holyrood and westminster being as bad as each other, though i suspect that was largely an auto-dismissive response.

 

but surely your democratic voice for more autonomy for shetland would be better heard in an independent scotland than having to shout all the way to westminster?

 

 

Perhaps, but I can only call it as it is in the present, and from where I'm sitting they're neck and neck right now, but the differential quickly becomes very apparent if you cast your eyes forward and attempt to forecast the future.

 

I don't preceive Westminster becoming any worse a bunch of jokers in their attitudes towards Shetland regardless of the outcome of the Referendum and what follows it, Holyrood, in the event of a 'Yes' vote, I would forsee, given the probable political views and geographical regions represented by the vast majority of members, becoming extremely anti-Shetland's interests.

 

Nope, I don't think a voice for Shetland would be better heard in an Independent Scotland, I believe it would be the polar opposite, see above paragraph.

 

 

 

ok, simple question then:  say there's a referendum on europe... if someone voted to stay in, which particular party would they be voting for?

 

Not a like with like comparison with the Scottish Referendum. Principally as we do not quite (as yet anyway) have a single European Government and only a relatively impotent minor legislature body in each member state.

 

 

irrelevant. the point i was making was that voting one way or another in a referendum isn't the same as voting for a particular party.

 

 

Not irrelevant at all as I see it. Voting in an EU referendum cannot relate to any specific party, as there is (as yet) no all powerful single EU Government in which party lines and politics can operate.

 

In the Scottish Referendum, where party lines and politics are the all prevailing force at both Westminster and Holyrood, a 'Yes' win is principally a win for Socialism, as that has been for some time standing and is the majority Scottish vote. Specifically its a vote for the SNP, as they're the sole party supporting the 'Yes' option.

 

Its been said before, but apparently it bears saying again. That in the event of a 'Yes' outcome in the Referendum, the SNP are the party in Government in Scotland throughout both the indpendence negotiations and the signing off on independence itself (assuming the current timetable is adhered to). So whatever deal Scotland gets lumbered will be whatever the SNP decides it will be, or they manage to salvage from the ashes of a very messy divorce. The future of Scotland (or lack of one) is fairly and squarely on the SNP's shoulders, and I can't see that as anything else than a 'Yes' vote also being a vote for the SNP. The other parties in Scotland may well accept a democratic decision and play along in negotiations, but the fact remains that neither individually or collectively do they have the power to either influence or block any madness or insanity the SNP may try and forge ahead with. The SNP have absolute control on every aspect of independence from beginning to end.

 

Certainly the SNP may well be out on their collective arses come May '16, but by then whatever harm is going to be done will already have been done, and there will be no comeback, as the SNP will have already signed off on whatever deal they've gone with, good, bad, or indifferent.

[Ghostrider]

 

"ok, simple question then:  say there's a referendum on europe... if someone voted to stay in, which particular party would they be voting for?"

 

Not a simple question but, a different one that is not related at all and, a strange argument to put... 

However, seeing as all 3 main parties seem to be, largely, in support of continued membership, I wouldn't be voting for any of them, I would be voting NO

 

[sigh] well yes, that much i could guess, but it wasn't the question. ok, say you vote 'no'. that's not the same as voting for your beloved ukips. there are other parties that support a 'no' position.

 

 

A 'Yes' vote, by default is also a vote for the party (SNP) which supports the 'Yes' campaign. A 'No' vote is by default is a vote of the loose coalition of parties (Tory, Labour. LibDem etc) who support the 'No' campaign, simples.

 

It was the 'Yes' camp that mooted this strange idea that somehow 'No' supporters were labouring under the false illusion that a 'Yes' vote was a vote for the SNP rather than a referendum vote for independence. I've never come across any such illusion from within the 'No' camp, just the very obvious acknowledgement that a 'Yes' vote was by default a vote for the SNP on the single issue of Scottish Independence, as they were the only party in support of it.

 

You cannot avoid being seen to be supporting those of like mind to yourself on a single issue, if you all work together towards that single common cause.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Ghostrider

[Distortio]

well, i completely disagree on almost everything you said there for all the reasons i've given over the last 2 pages. this is going in circles, i'm going to get back to the realtime updates and watch the results come in. 

 

hoping the polls are rendered useless, which is a distinct possibility given the huge turnout... 

[Ghostrider]

Well, at least Shetland voted in the right direction, 5,669 for Yes and 9,951 for No, 36.3% Yes, 63.7% No.

 

Just disappointed we didn't rack up a higher percentage than Orkney at 33% Yes, 67% No.

 

I'm going to bed, the Mainland of Scotland is irrelevant to me, they can please themselves, we have what we need whatever they decide to do.

[Scorrie]

I wonder how long it is before 'social media' is alive with swivel-eyed folk bleating about Westminster 'brainwashing people' and squawking that 'this means nothing', or even that Westminster has rigged the voting system..........?

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

What ever happens next , I think it would be a good idea to find Gary Robinson something more suitable to do.

[Windwalker]

What ever happens next , I think it would be a good idea to find Gary Robinson something more suitable to do.

With all the serious of the night, that made me smile.

Edited September 19, 2014 by Windwalker