Co-op out Aldi or Lidel in

[magnie ii]

very true

 

very nice shop. but if the larger country stores like brae and mainlands are swallowed up by the coop or tescos it impacts on the wholesale suppliers and even more local producers. its a very negative move for all the remaining stores. do we really want to be dependent on either of the major 2. and a very serious situation for our local food production and that includes our meat production.   

 

 

very true 2 of the four wholesalers in lerwick are struggling and in resent years have failed to make a profit.  Less wholesalers can only be bad because the remaining ones are bound to raise prices either through carriage charges less offers or just blunt price rises.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Then the local wholesalers need to adapt (if possible), just as at times the main big supermarkets have to adapt to customers' requirements.  Some local shops will go the extra mile, others won't.  Some local shops are faced with the wholesaler saying they won't get an item in/not cost effective to do so.  I'm aware that there are cost restraints but to be blunt, wherever you live in the UK, there are some in the retail business who simply refuse to accommodate customers ... and the customers end up going to where their requirements are met.

[Colin]

very true 2 of the four wholesalers in lerwick are struggling and in resent years have failed to make a profit.  Less wholesalers can only be bad because the remaining ones are bound to raise prices either through carriage charges less offers or just blunt price rises.

 

Ill informed..

 

Fewer wholesalers would make little or no difference to the prices paid by their customers and, in fact, might benefit them..

 

As for price rises due to 'freight' etc.  Not true as most goods arrive at the door carriage paid. 

 

As for 'blunt' price rises.  Yes, they can happen as goods have to be paid for, employees have to be paid, business rates have to be paid, hydro has to be paid for etc, etc..

All these items are, pretty much, externally applied and outside of the wholesalers control

 

Fewer wholesalers would mean higher turnover for those remaining and, as they are 'turnover based' businesses, such a scenario would help to keep prices down..

 

The biggest 'threat' is the ever diminishing number of 'country' shops who are finding their, increasingly mobile, customer base vanishing towards Lerwick where they can get a much wider range of goods, often at better prices.. Also, there is the competition from Tesco's home delivery service.  Delivered to the door and some of it at prices that even the wholesalers would find it impossible to match.

[Colin]

Some local shops are faced with the wholesaler saying they won't get an item in/not cost effective to do so. 

You shouldn't blame the wholesaler for this as a lot of producers insist that at least a whole pallet (sometimes more) of their products are ordered and that there is a least one 'layer' on the pallet of each product.

 

Sounds OK until you look into the detail.. 

If someone wants their wholesaler to order one case of a product  and, that product can only be sourced as eg;

a pallet of 21 cases or as a pallet 'layer' of 7 cases,

That would leave the wholesaler sitting on 6/20 cases that he would have to shift before they hit their expiry date etc..    Financial suicide on less popular/obscure items.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

@ Colin - So are you saying that the wholesalers up here buy every single product direct from the manufacturers/producers or that they too go to another wholesaler?

 

I understand where you're coming from but in general, I'm talking about non-obscure products such as a non-biological brand leader washing powder and similar type products.  I've known the local shops to be out of coffee filters for MONTHS waiting for the wholesaler to get them in, despite them advising that they did ask the wholesaler.  Now given that filtered coffee tends to sell out pretty quickly, tis a tad difficult to figure out how coffee filters would be a less popular/obscure item.

 

Re home delivery - how many local shops deliver?  What's their answer if you ask if they could deliver to your home?  How many people have asked/daren't ask/have been met with a "We don't do that".

[Colin]

"Colin - So are you saying that the wholesalers up here buy every single product direct from the manufacturers/producers or that they too go to another wholesaler?"

 

Don't recollect saying either but, if it matters, 2 of the wholesalers are part of national buying groups (ie:giant wholesalers) so, they get the best prices that they can through that route although 'pallet restrictions' would still apply.

 

Having said that, some items are sourced direct from the producers who have their own order/delivery requirements.

 

"non-obscure products such as a non-biological brand leader washing powder and similar type products"

 

If these are 'popular' products then, it is unlikely that the wholesaler would be out of stock for more than a few days (if at all) as they would be ordered on a regular cycle.  More likely is that the shop has a good stock of similar products and is unwilling to increase their stockholding by adding to them.

 

"I've known the local shops to be out of coffee filters for MONTHS waiting for the wholesaler to get them in"

 

Maybe the wholesaler does not want to buy a whole pallet of them as most people drink 'instant'.  Sounds a bit flippant but, if the filters are supplied buy a producer/manufacturer who has order/delivery restrictions, it could easily take months before an order was placed due to the specialised(?) nature of the product line which might be quite 'slow moving'

Perhaps filtered coffee sells out pretty quickly because shopkeepers do not stock a lot of it??

Having said that, good wholesalers monitor their stocks quite closely and, efforts are made to ensure that any item that is 'trending',  or sells well, is kept in stock.

 

"Re home delivery - how many local shops deliver?"

 

Haven't got a clue but, I know one that does...

[magnie ii]

 

very true 2 of the four wholesalers in lerwick are struggling and in resent years have failed to make a profit.  Less wholesalers can only be bad because the remaining ones are bound to raise prices either through carriage charges less offers or just blunt price rises.

 

Ill informed..

 

Fewer wholesalers would make little or no difference to the prices paid by their customers and, in fact, might benefit them..

 

As for price rises due to 'freight' etc.  Not true as most goods arrive at the door carriage paid. 

 

As for 'blunt' price rises.  Yes, they can happen as goods have to be paid for, employees have to be paid, business rates have to be paid, hydro has to be paid for etc, etc..

All these items are, pretty much, externally applied and outside of the wholesalers control

 

Fewer wholesalers would mean higher turnover for those remaining and, as they are 'turnover based' businesses, such a scenario would help to keep prices down..

 

The biggest 'threat' is the ever diminishing number of 'country' shops who are finding their, increasingly mobile, customer base vanishing towards Lerwick where they can get a much wider range of goods, often at better prices.. Also, there is the competition from Tesco's home delivery service.  Delivered to the door and some of it at prices that even the wholesalers would find it impossible to match.

 

not convinced when grays had less competition when they bought out tods and bains had closed down they took much higher margins then they do now also only the freezer centre deliver to the most outlying areas of shetland without charge now so i am not sure about your suggestion that they don't charge freight?

[Colin]

 

not convinced when grays had less competition when they bought out tods and bains had closed down they took much higher margins then they do now also only the freezer centre deliver to the most outlying areas of shetland without charge now so i am not sure about your suggestion that they don't charge freight?

 

Yes, they (grays) do charge for delivering to outlying areas but,as I said, most of the goods arrive at their door carriage paid and, if you go in there to collect them, there is no additional charge.  If you want your goods delivered then, presumably, you expect them to buy/maintain an expensive set of vehicles/drivers/fuel etc and then deliver 'for free'.  If so, who do you think  is going to pay for that?  If 'others' can do it then, trust me, 'others' are charging a higher base cost for their products.

 

Your comparison with the Freezer Centre just does not hold up as there is a massive difference in the scale of the operations. 

1st off, it could be argued that Grays stocks more frozen/chilled food than the freezer centre as they have much larger premises and, the freezer centre seems to have found a 'niche'. 

2nd. The freezer centre is, pretty much, a 'delivered only' type of operation.  They will supplly to those that go in and collect but, the bulk of their stuff is 'delivered' in temperature controlled vehicles. 

3rd, Hughsons also stock quite a large range of frozen goods, maybe not as much as grays but, quite a bit for all that..

 

I can not comment on anyone's margins but, with so much 'price marked' promotional stuff on the shelves, I would guess that the margins are pretty slim and that it is 'volume' of sales that makes any profit or, if you are to be believed, loss...

 

A little history...

 

Tod's were, effectively, bankrupt and Gray's bought them out in order to expand into other areas.  Nett result, no real difference.

Bain's closed down due to retirements etc and, Hughson Bros bought the building etc.  They also expanded their operation to enable them to stock more goods.  Nett result, no real difference.

 

Bottom line is that if the demand is there, then businesses will appear/expand to meet it.

[paulb]

do we all agree that its not wise for shetland to be dependent mainly on 1 or 2 traders. what value is local food production worth and what damage could the take over of local stores cost shetland. trouble is what can be done to insure an independent sector.

[JustMe]

Am I right in thinking that at least one well known food shop in the centre of Lerwick actually gets a lot of its supplies from a mainland wholesaler?.  Meaning there is an alternative to Grays and Hughsons,  As for the Sainsbury/Lidl debate I would welcome competition for Tesco in the form of one store offering more quality products and the other offering lower prices.  But I regret the loss of Da Keg as that was a good place to buy drink.