Jump to content

  • Log in with Twitter Log In with LinkedIn Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

With your Shetlink login details, all classifieds, private messages, and invoices are now accessed through the new Njord | Market system. Please see Njord | Market FAQ for more details.

Photo

Lerwick Up Helly Aa - sexist or traditional?

up helly-aa

  • Please log in to reply
169 replies to this topic

Poll: Female squad members in Lerwick Up Helly Aa (96 member(s) have cast votes)

In principle, should women be allowed to participate in Lerwick Up Helly-Aa as squad members?

  1. Yes (50 votes [52.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.08%

  2. Voted No (46 votes [47.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.92%

Is logistics (already high numbers of guizers, waiting lists for squads etc) a valid reason not to allow women to participate in Lerwick Up Helly-Aa as squad members?

  1. Yes (46 votes [47.92%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.92%

  2. Voted No (50 votes [52.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 52.08%

The current ‘male only’ squad member demographic of Lerwick Up Helly-Aa is….

  1. Sexist (39 votes [40.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.62%

  2. Voted Traditional (57 votes [59.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 59.38%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Muckle Oxters

Muckle Oxters

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 82 posts

Posted 14 January 2017 - 10:21 PM

(* moderator edit - poll added *)
 
 
 
http://www.shetlandt...-banner-oer-us?
 
Whit do you tink aboot dis article? Is UHA sexist or jist traditional?

Edited by admin, 08 September 2018 - 10:49 AM.
poll added


#2 tirvaluk

tirvaluk

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 805 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 09:34 AM

It's very sexist and traditional. An awful lot of people don't want to change it, women and men. My own opinion is women should be in squads if they want to. 


  • Frances144, The Cleaner and Glitterball like this

#3 Colin

Colin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2198 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 09:39 AM

Hairy Vikings are bad enough without having Hairy Viking Women as well..  Anyway, a lot of the men dress as women so, what's the problem... :thmbsup



#4 tirvaluk

tirvaluk

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 805 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 10:25 AM

The committee have always said that they don't ban women,they can't it would be illegal. They just say they never been asked. Remember a few years ago 2 women asked to go in the Common Ridings in the Borders, they took the organisers to court and won what had been a male exclusive privilege. I'm sure the same would happen in Lerwick if any woman pushed it through court.


  • The Cleaner and thirtyeight58@hotmail.com like this

#5 iiboy

iiboy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 59 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 11:08 AM

Wha gives a sharn
  • Auld Mossyface likes this

#6 Ghostrider

Ghostrider

    1crankymofo

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9135 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 12:12 PM

Anyway, a lot of the men dress as women so, what's the problem... :thmbsup

 

Appendages. Those still present, and those still missing.



#7 EM

EM

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1752 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 12:46 PM

The committee have always said that they don't ban women,they can't it would be illegal.

 

Simply not true. Can you clarify which law you claim would be infringed?

 

Remember a few years ago 2 women asked to go in the Common Ridings in the Borders,

 

Yes I do.

 

they took the organisers to court and won what had been a male exclusive privilege.

 

Not true either. Widely believed, but not true. If you check the facts you will find that they came to a fudged compromise whereby women would be permitted to ride at the back, behind the men. Ironically such a solution would now be considered illegal.

 

 

I'm sure the same would happen in Lerwick if any woman pushed it through court.

 

You are sure?  Well, I'm sure about this matter too, but I think I have reason to be surer than most.  Having read the legal texts and discussed details with relevant experts, I see no way Lerwick would be able to admit female guizers now. It is over.

 

Since the law changed in 2010 we have the remarkable situation where most of the Shetland UHAs infringe the law, but Lerwick is completely squeaky clean. It has to be.



#8 Colin

Colin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2198 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 12:54 PM

Puzzled....  Why would UHA NOT be permitted to admit female guizers?


  • Organized and The Cleaner like this

#9 Colin

Colin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2198 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 12:57 PM

 

Anyway, a lot of the men dress as women so, what's the problem... :thmbsup

 

Appendages. Those still present, and those still missing.

 

Lotions and Lubricants..  I'm sure that a compromise could be found somewhere along the way...

 

Anyway, I've heard that women can get an operation to rectify(?) that..  a "strapadictomy" I think it's called... :razz:


Edited by Colin, 15 January 2017 - 01:02 PM.


#10 Ghostrider

Ghostrider

    1crankymofo

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9135 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 01:03 PM

 

 

Anyway, a lot of the men dress as women so, what's the problem... :thmbsup

 

Appendages. Those still present, and those still missing.

 

Lotions and Lubricants..  I'm sure that a compromise could be found somewhere along the way...

 

Anyway, I've heard that women can get an operation to rectify(?) that..  a "strapadictomy" I think it's called... :razz:

 

 

Dammit, man. I was just about to go and look for some dinner....Gone right off the idea of food now, I have.


  • sludgegulper and The Cleaner like this

#11 Colin

Colin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2198 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 01:07 PM

I could have added that Tesco might get a "run" on some of the big Polish sausages that they keep but.....

 

Go get some fresh air.  It'll make you feel better...


  • The Cleaner likes this

#12 EM

EM

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 1752 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 01:27 PM

Puzzled....  Why would UHA NOT be permitted to admit female guizers?

 

It is very simple and all about what kind of discrimination is permitted in society. The various UHAs fall into three categories:

  • Some, like SMUHA, are completely gender transparent.
  • Lerwick restricts guizers and squad musicians to be male.
  • Most others permit females to participate but with restricted rights.

 

The latter is now explicitly forbidden, but Lerwick's status is 100% legal.

 

Were Lerwick to try to permit female guizers, it would need to be done completely. All or nothing, anything else would constitute unfair discrimination. In the past things could have gradually changed, as UHA has always done, but this is no longer an option. It really is over.



#13 Wheelsup

Wheelsup

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 390 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 01:51 PM

If UHA Lk were to suddenly announce, there is no ban. Surely it would take many years for females to find squad places and it would happen so gradually as not to be an issue. As the individual squads select their members alone, and the committee control the squad numbers and registration I would think it would be a slow imperceptible evolution. For instance any new squad applying for a place might simply not be permitted due to numbers or failing to satisfy any criteria that might be set. This happened in the seventies with concerns around the thousands of additional residents resulting from the Sullom Voe construction.
  • BGDDisco and Glitterball like this

#14 Ghostrider

Ghostrider

    1crankymofo

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9135 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 01:56 PM

Were Lerwick to try to permit female guizers, it would need to be done completely. All or nothing, anything else would constitute unfair discrimination. In the past things could have gradually changed, as UHA has always done, but this is no longer an option. It really is over.

 

Not sure I entirely follow this logic. How could it be "done completely" unless by a process of evolution? Certainly the constitution/rule book would probably need re-written completely at the start, but in practical terms those changes would only come in to effect and become noticable very slowly.

 

Its been my understanding that the LK UHA has had both a waiting list of squads and/or individuals wanting to take part for a long time, and due to a policy of keeping it all to a finite and manageable size, the only way in for those waiting is by filling dead men's boots.

 

Surely if you have enforce positive discrimination and boot out folk that have already "earned" their place to make way for women fast tracked in to make it as gender balanced as possible, its still discrimination, just that of a different kind, and no better for its "victims".

 

If the only way in is by "joining the queue", surely everybody, male, female and others need to join the queue and get in on the same terms, or does having that queue system of entry in some way also contravene something when used by all rather than a gender specific group?


  • The Cleaner likes this

#15 Colin

Colin

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 2198 posts

Posted 15 January 2017 - 02:20 PM

 

Puzzled....  Why would UHA NOT be permitted to admit female guizers?

 

It is very simple and all about what kind of discrimination is permitted in society. The various UHAs fall into three categories:

  • Some, like SMUHA, are completely gender transparent.
  • Lerwick restricts guizers and squad musicians to be male.
  • Most others permit females to participate but with restricted rights.

 

The latter is now explicitly forbidden, but Lerwick's status is 100% legal.

 

Were Lerwick to try to permit female guizers, it would need to be done completely. All or nothing, anything else would constitute unfair discrimination. In the past things could have gradually changed, as UHA has always done, but this is no longer an option. It really is over.

 

OK, you have outlined a few scenarios based on some "legal advice" that appears to have been taken but, you have still not explained why LK UHA will NOT permit female guizers.

After all, if SMUHA is 100% "legal", why not apply the same rules(?) in Lerwick?