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#21 Twerto

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 07:54 AM

We still don't know if anyone has enquired of the landowner what they want to do with the land, at the moment it is on free lease for educational purposes, if not used for education then it may well cost a fortune before a turf is turned.

It turns out only a small part of it it falls under education. (i.e the now English block and the land down to Twageos) I am lead to believe that most of it is owned by SLAP and the rest is owned by the Council.


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#22 Ghostrider

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 10:36 AM

^ Good. SLAP and the SIC can get their heads together again and cook up a scheme, which they seem awfully good at, to get together with the NHS, which they're getting increasingly good at, to trade the existing hospital site for a new modern PFI hospital on their bits of the AHS site and refurb/convert the existing hospital building in to flats. Much better use for the hospital site, plenty of room to have a big enough hospital of optimal design on the AHS site, so everybody wins. Room too for plenty of parking, plus a chopper pad that could be used without any significant overflying of residential, which might stay in one place for more than five minutes.

Handy too for the NHS burying all their many mistakes, they can just pop them over the wall - the site's probably big enough for the NHS to create their own dedicated graveyard, but they'd probably not risk the negatIve PR from folk seeing how fast it filled up.
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#23 suuusssiiieee

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 12:27 PM

I actually like the hospital idea - and look at the spanking new hospital going up in Kirkwall. They saw a need for a new build and get it done.

 

It goes without saying probably a decent idea but it will get dismissed out of hand



#24 magnie ii

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 01:07 PM

I actually like the hospital idea - and look at the spanking new hospital going up in Kirkwall. They saw a need for a new build and get it done.

 

It goes without saying probably a decent idea but it will get dismissed out of hand

surely access would be a problem with the roads out the knab a new hospital would need to be in a better spot for access not worse



#25 Ghostrider

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 02:01 PM

^ They'd be far from ideal, but compared to the current hospital access it would be paradise. It never was great there from day one, and with both increased traffic volume and hospital usage as the years have gone on its been an impossible nightmare for years.

It's the bigger picture you need to look at too though, if folk want the hospital to remain in the town, the AHS site is virtually the last chance saloon, unless you talk condemning one or more or the few left remaining grassed areas, a massive demolition project or filling in the Clickimin Loch.

GIve the NHS the Gibbie to tack on to Montfield, give them the play and flower parks in KHS, bulldoze 25% of Sandveien all could probably work, but folk might not agree. Otherwise, you're talking someplace like around the Observatory, the Decca or Gulberwick. Exposed hilltop sites like the first two are hardly the best locations for the sickest and weakest members of the population to have to congregate continuously, Gulberwick would be fine with me, and I wouldn't expect most other yokels would have too much problem with it there either, toonies though, maybe not so much.
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#26 mogling

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 08:11 PM

What I would like to see part of the site used for {with a good view of the sea and the boats coming in & oot}

is well-designed, accessible council / Hjaltland / Housing Association housing for people with physical disabilities.

 

Considering the number of people that develop disabling long term conditions and

for many, their future housing needs, it would be fine to have some houses available

in a quiet area with a nice view.

 

{I was a carer for someone who was housebound, and all they ever wished for was a view

of the sea, and to be able to see boats. Their window looked out onto a brick wall...}

 

There could be some single-person houses, some for a small family, and some 4 bedroomed for

folk with a larger family.

 

A parking space at the door {On the lea side} and  a peerie bit of patio so folk could get outside

in their wheelchair to get a bit of sun on their face on the couple of summer days we get.

 

 

If there is indeed a clause requiring 'Educational links', then the housing could primarily

be for Teachers, lecturers, tutors or anyone who has ever worked in a school /canteen / College / Education dept,

or is tenuously related / connected to someone who has links to 'education'.



#27 suuusssiiieee

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 08:16 PM

As ever nothing is ever perfect in this life but as Ghostie refers there is now a chronic lack of available space left for any major projects in, around, or near Lerwick. It's bad enough that the last bastion of green space the Ness of Sound may one day have to be used for future Cemetery use (i can't think of another area within the Lerwick limits).

 

The old GBH is a costly beast to maintain, it's a huge drain on resources.

 

So Magnie ii if your saying for the sake of some access issues a new hospital is not really what you want to see on that site, well surely that would apply to anything that is constructed on that site. I get the Knab Road area isn't perfect but roads can be changed if needed, maybe get rid of some road humps first !!,  etc...;) 

 

For years the Orcadian's seriously lagged behind us on major infrastructure but how the pendulum has swung the other way. They in recent years have enjoyed getting a new High School, Library & Archives,  & Travel centre hub to name but a few and now the new hospital.

 

We just make do....



#28 Ghostrider

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Posted 28 July 2017 - 08:45 PM

Access issues to the AHS site could be vastly improved with a not particularly large road upgrade. Put a roundabout at the Sletts/Burgh Road/Scalloway Road/South Road crossroads and upgrade Breiwick Road and through between the old Cemetery and the Lighthouse Buildings, or if we're going to be looking at sacrificing green belt, send it up over the Knab from the Ronald Street junction to around where the skate park is to avoid the worst congested bits.

You'd need to sacrifice a house or two to open up the corners at the Sletts, but that was absolutely no problem when it had to be done to build the first swimming pool or get a roundabout and road in to the "cultural quarter" at the North Ness, regardless the opinion of the occupants of them. So, for something as important to everybody as a hospital, it surely should be a given.

#29 shetlander

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Posted 29 July 2017 - 10:04 AM

It goes without saying probably a decent idea but it will get dismissed out of hand


A good idea is all very well but unless the Health Board think the Knab is suitable for a new hospital and/or there's money on the table to provide one, putting it in a masterplan is a waste of time. The same goes for a new primary school or college.

Housing is the most realistic option for it IMO with maybe one of the listed buildings being used as a hotel or hostel. I like moglings suggestion about a more mixed/inclusive development with accommodation for disabled folk, old and young, private and public.

Depending on how greedy the SIC are going to be I'd have thought there's an opportunity for them to leverage in some public benefit as a condition of the sale - a requirement for a developer to put in (say) a new camp/caravan site.

Oh and we canna always be one ahead of Orkney - I'm sure we're still the envy of them in a lot of respects ;)

#30 Ghostrider

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:34 AM

^ Do we really need more housing? Surely the proposed Staney Hll development(s) will swallow up a lot of demand, the AHS site has potential for, what do they reckon, 140, 170 or something like that, I don't remember exactly?

 

Likewise, if access was considered an issue when planning a new AHS on the site, and is being brought up again now with the suggestion of using it for a hospital, surely well over a hundred houses is going to generate much more traffic than either of them.

 

In all liklihood it wil mostly (all?) get turned over to houses, and if it does, while there's a lot of good in the idea of having a mixed public/private development, I'm less than sure existing attempts at this have been undertaken very well, and the idea needs a lot more thought than its been given so far.

 

A public/private mix seems to work pretty well where you have privately owned houses mixed in among public ones on streets/estates which were built as public housing and some have become privately owned under right to buy. Streets/estates planned that way from the start, not so much. Quoys very much gives the impression of being a few privately owned 'mansions' perched on a 'nob's hill' 'looking down' (both literally and metaphorically) on the plebs in their 'little boxes' stacked up and squeezed in like sardines in a tin - not saying that's how it is in practice for the people who live there, I'm just citing it as its probably the most well known, and to me, obvious example of a development which has been designed so as it inevitably looks that way.


Edited by Ghostrider, 13 August 2017 - 10:37 AM.

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#31 MuckleJoannie

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:15 PM

New schemes seem to need to be part financed by selling private house sites so I guess it makes sense to sell off the best sites to get best value.



#32 Ghostrider

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Posted 13 August 2017 - 10:23 PM

^ That's fair enough, but what would be wrong with, and give a better sense of inclusion, plus possibly let a few folk get their first step on to the property ladder, doing as many developers south do. Build all the houses on the site to a similar design/spec, but build in phases, selling off the first phase or two to finance the latter phases.

 

Okay, there still might be something of a sense of a "posh" end and a "ghetto" end, but it seems to be less so than when you have a small number of large houses in reasonably sized grounds sited prominently, and the rest like little boxes bunched together each with a token patch of grass hardly big enough to swing a cat.


Edited by Ghostrider, 13 August 2017 - 10:25 PM.


#33 Lerwick antiques

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 12:55 AM

I personally think that the AHS site would be the perfect place for a new hospital. We are in need of a new up-to-date and bigger hospital. The hospital was fully modern and big enough when it opened in 1961 (think that was the date by memory) but since then, Shetland's population has growing, and it's become quite a drain on the money trying to patch the old building up and just out-dated and will just no be fit for the purpose for much longer.

 

I see no problem with a new hospital being on the AHS site. But most of the roads are one way around the site, but, how many cars, buses and people come and go on a daily basis just now? Probably more traffic than there will be for the hospital.

 

I am quite surprised that the council has managed to leave the old cemetery in Knab road alone as it's quite a big piece of land. I am surprised the council hasn't decided to either build houses on the old cemetery site or make it into a car park. That might come yet depending on what they decide to do with the AHS site and road access/parking. Also depending if they think they can get away with digging a cemetery up.


Edited by Lerwick antiques, 31 August 2017 - 12:58 AM.


#34 magnie ii

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 06:18 AM

I personally think that the AHS site would be the perfect place for a new hospital. We are in need of a new up-to-date and bigger hospital. The hospital was fully modern and big enough when it opened in 1961 (think that was the date by memory) but since then, Shetland's population has growing, and it's become quite a drain on the money trying to patch the old building up and just out-dated and will just no be fit for the purpose for much longer.

 

I see no problem with a new hospital being on the AHS site. But most of the roads are one way around the site, but, how many cars, buses and people come and go on a daily basis just now? Probably more traffic than there will be for the hospital.

 

I am quite surprised that the council has managed to leave the old cemetery in Knab road alone as it's quite a big piece of land. I am surprised the council hasn't decided to either build houses on the old cemetery site or make it into a car park. That might come yet depending on what they decide to do with the AHS site and road access/parking. Also depending if they think they can get away with digging a cemetery up.

 

 

have you tried driving from the knab to the edge of town at 9 or 5 its impossible can you imagine the ambulances trying to get out



#35 George.

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 10:54 AM

I am quite surprised that the council has managed to leave the old cemetery in Knab road alone as it's quite a big piece of land. I am surprised the council hasn't decided to either build houses on the old cemetery site or make it into a car park. That might come yet depending on what they decide to do with the AHS site and road access/parking. Also depending if they think they can get away with digging a cemetery up.

 

The people that have been buried in the cemetery are certainly more productive than the council is. Their wages are a lot less and they didn't use the council tax that we pay to build the new *hite House.



#36 Ghostrider

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 12:45 PM

 

I personally think that the AHS site would be the perfect place for a new hospital. We are in need of a new up-to-date and bigger hospital. The hospital was fully modern and big enough when it opened in 1961 (think that was the date by memory) but since then, Shetland's population has growing, and it's become quite a drain on the money trying to patch the old building up and just out-dated and will just no be fit for the purpose for much longer.

 

I see no problem with a new hospital being on the AHS site. But most of the roads are one way around the site, but, how many cars, buses and people come and go on a daily basis just now? Probably more traffic than there will be for the hospital.

 

I am quite surprised that the council has managed to leave the old cemetery in Knab road alone as it's quite a big piece of land. I am surprised the council hasn't decided to either build houses on the old cemetery site or make it into a car park. That might come yet depending on what they decide to do with the AHS site and road access/parking. Also depending if they think they can get away with digging a cemetery up.

 

 

have you tried driving from the knab to the edge of town at 9 or 5 its impossible can you imagine the ambulances trying to get out

 

 

Any worse than trying to get in/out of the present hospital site via Cairnfield Road anytime between 8 and 6 weekdays? It was hell on wheels decades ago and can only have gotten worse, a total bottleneck and a plethora of awkward junctions to contend with.

 

Bottom line, if the AHS site is unsuitable for a new hospital site due to access traffic issues, its unsuitable for any use that sees people living and working on it, as from the potential suggestions put forward so far a hospital is probably the lowest traffic volume generating one of them.

 

As I've said on here before, a road upgrade would solve most issues. Either of Breiwick Road as is, and put roundabouts on the junctions, or (if a 'Rolls Royce' approach is desired - as the SIC invariably does) upgrade Breiwick Road, Sletts to Ronald Street, then send a new road up over the Knab to land south of the Coastguard hut. Certainly I'd prefer to see a new hospital somewhere else than the AHS site, but there is nowhere else suitable to put it short of Gulberwick or Tingwall. All other sizeable town sites are now either on significant slopes or on exposed hilltops - neither suitable places for sick, ill and infirm people to be expected to go and conregate as a matter of routine 24/7/365.



#37 Frances144

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 06:40 PM

Seriously?  A new hospital?

You chaps do not know you are born.

Go to any hospital in London and what you have here in Shetland is incredible.  Ok, so not brand new, but amazing by any UK standards and it works as a hospital.



#38 Lerwick antiques

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 01:09 AM

How come Aberdeen hospital is just luxury compared to the Gilbert Bain? 

 

It doesn't seem like the GB has been maintained very well over the years. There was a report no that long ago about the roof leaking and mind a local plumber saying a couple of years ago that he was done some work on the water or sewage works and the whole lot needs to be replaced, but as normal, all they can do is patch it up.

 

Also far to small for Shetlands growing population.

 

The only other site I can think of is where Montfield is at. 



#39 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 01 September 2017 - 05:31 AM

Seriously?  A new hospital?

You chaps do not know you are born.

Go to any hospital in London and what you have here in Shetland is incredible.  Ok, so not brand new, but amazing by any UK standards and it works as a hospital.

Ah, born ... the London hospitals I attended had facilities so women could give birth there or, for that matter, sufficient midwifery cover so women could have a home birth; they didn't force women to travel to have a caesarian.

The London hospitals I attended had MRI units; again, not having to travel for several hours.

The London hospitals I attended did have rheumatology clinics.

The London hospitals I attended had their own orthopaedic surgeons.

In fact, the London hospitals I attended ... well, they didn't have visiting consultants, they had intensive care units, high dependency units; and if one hospital had a long waiting list then there was NHS Choices whereby you could choose another hospital to attend that had a shorter waiting list.  London hospitals also didn't have to bleep folk to come in from home at a weekend to take your x-ray, etc.

Speaking to friends still living in the smoke, granted yes, there are longer waits but they still have the services that we don't.

Free at the point of need, NOT free at the point of delivery as spouted by Scot. Gov.

GBH is not fit for purpose and is long overdue being replaced.

 



#40 Lerwick antiques

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 12:57 AM

I agree. I myself have not experienced London hospitals, so can't comment about them.

 

Something as important as a hospital needs to be kept updated and should have facilities which the current GBH are lacking due to lack of space.

 

The doctors and nurses do their best with the current GBH but it's just past it's sell by date.