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#1 BigMouth

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 08:34 AM

On this historic day, spare a thought for the men in society. It will be them driving the cesspit emptying trucks, sweeping your streets, emptying your bins, dying in the front line of wars, doing the dangerous jobs. If there is a death in UK industry, there's a 95% chance it will be a man. Men will spend less years in retirement, men die earlier. They are more likely to lose their kids in custody battles, will be imprisoned for crimes that a woman will not receive a custodial sentence for, will have fewer choices of contraception, and will end up bearing the financial responsibilities long after a marriage has dissolved, even when the blame is not their's. Men will be unsupported in violence in the home, seen as weak if they are ill, and generally get the crap end of life's stick.

To all the dads, uncles, sons, grandfathers and brothers out there, remember equality works both ways.

And when you raise points like this as a man you risk and interview with your employer, even when you wrote it outside work on your own computer!

Edited by BigMouth, 06 February 2018 - 08:35 AM.


#2 Wheelsup

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 09:31 AM

I respect your views and they will probably be lot of men out there who have similar views and experiences.

 

But things have had to change. It has taken years,  but women are now allowed to be on the front line and work down the mines etc. 

My mother and now my daughter worked/work in jobs that are as dangerous as any other, and could be equally argued that very few men choose to follow their careers. I couldn't.  We are slowly moving in the right direction, and yes equality does cut both ways.



#3 George.

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 10:31 AM

On this historic day, spare a thought for the men in society. It will be them driving the cesspit emptying trucks, sweeping your streets, emptying your bins, dying in the front line of wars, doing the dangerous jobs. If there is a death in UK industry, there's a 95% chance it will be a man. Men will spend less years in retirement, men die earlier. They are more likely to lose their kids in custody battles, will be imprisoned for crimes that a woman will not receive a custodial sentence for, will have fewer choices of contraception, and will end up bearing the financial responsibilities long after a marriage has dissolved, even when the blame is not their's. Men will be unsupported in violence in the home, seen as weak if they are ill, and generally get the crap end of life's stick.

To all the dads, uncles, sons, grandfathers and brothers out there, remember equality works both ways.

And when you raise points like this as a man you risk and interview with your employer, even when you wrote it outside work on your own computer!

 

There are some arguments to accept some of the differences between men and women. Men are physically stronger than women so they tend to take on the large majority of hard physical work. Women though are just as intelligent as men so are capable of taking on top management level positions and positions where they lead us all. Look at Theresa May and Margret Thatcher, the men, and women of course, work under them.

 

Men tend to die earlier. That's because they don't live as long. Perhaps that is encouraged by the physical work that men have done, but drinking habits won't help and men tend to drink more. That will encourage them to die earlier as well.

 

Men will, in my opinion, continue to lose their children as they and their partners split up. The mother will do a better job of looking after the child, that's nature. Therefore, the majority of children remain with the female as opposed to the male.

 

So what is historical about the difference between men and women? It is true that women have spent a long, long time being treated as a second class citizen but that has been changing for some time now.

 

So, what's the point that you're putting over? They are not complete suffragettes.


Edited by George., 06 February 2018 - 10:42 AM.


#4 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:31 AM

Spare a thought for the men?  The suffrage movement campaigners included men and women, and not all of them would consider themselves to be suffragists or suffragettes.  The Act in 1918 didn't put women and men on equal footing regarding voting rights but it did also lift some restrictions on men.  It wasn't until 1928 that women were brought on par with men regarding voting rights.

Women still continue to be jailed for offences and receive longer sentences than those passed down to men.

Women still face discrimination in the workplace and earn less than men.

 

Women do not automatically get residency orders re children in their favour; the Courts go by the Childrens Act and basically do what the children want if the children are over a certain age (If I remember correctly, I think it's 10).


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#5 Whistle and Flute

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 01:01 PM

Maybe, but we can choose 364 other days!

 

Women have had a few thousand years of working knee high in dirt, fish guts and muck with no representation or voice, and usually at the wrong end of some form of abuse at work or at home, and normally for little or no pay. In the numerous "total wars" we have had; Wars of Independence, 30 Years War, 100 Years War, Second World War for example, the countless victims of murder, rape and abuse have been women and their children. The fact that women have had more choices of contraception has clearly been a benefit to us blokes not just women! Women are certainly not shy of hard labour, for example they worked in the mines along with their children until men and the unions put a stop to it, this was especially true in the smaller tin mines of Cornwall. In short. Women are brilliant and more than deserve their day, and have also more than earned their right to representation and respect.

 

On this historic day, spare a thought for the men in society. It will be them driving the cesspit emptying trucks, sweeping your streets, emptying your bins, dying in the front line of wars, doing the dangerous jobs. If there is a death in UK industry, there's a 95% chance it will be a man. Men will spend less years in retirement, men die earlier. They are more likely to lose their kids in custody battles, will be imprisoned for crimes that a woman will not receive a custodial sentence for, will have fewer choices of contraception, and will end up bearing the financial responsibilities long after a marriage has dissolved, even when the blame is not their's. Men will be unsupported in violence in the home, seen as weak if they are ill, and generally get the crap end of life's stick.

To all the dads, uncles, sons, grandfathers and brothers out there, remember equality works both ways.

And when you raise points like this as a man you risk and interview with your employer, even when you wrote it outside work on your own computer!



#6 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 04:54 PM

 

Maybe, but we can choose 364 other days!

 

Women have had a few thousand years of working knee high in dirt, fish guts and muck with no representation or voice, and usually at the wrong end of some form of abuse at work or at home, and normally for little or no pay. In the numerous "total wars" we have had; Wars of Independence, 30 Years War, 100 Years War, Second World War for example, the countless victims of murder, rape and abuse have been women and their children. The fact that women have had more choices of contraception has clearly been a benefit to us blokes not just women! Women are certainly not shy of hard labour, for example they worked in the mines along with their children until men and the unions put a stop to it, this was especially true in the smaller tin mines of Cornwall. In short. Women are brilliant and more than deserve their day, and have also more than earned their right to representation and respect.

 

On this historic day, spare a thought for the men in society. It will be them driving the cesspit emptying trucks, sweeping your streets, emptying your bins, dying in the front line of wars, doing the dangerous jobs. If there is a death in UK industry, there's a 95% chance it will be a man. Men will spend less years in retirement, men die earlier. They are more likely to lose their kids in custody battles, will be imprisoned for crimes that a woman will not receive a custodial sentence for, will have fewer choices of contraception, and will end up bearing the financial responsibilities long after a marriage has dissolved, even when the blame is not their's. Men will be unsupported in violence in the home, seen as weak if they are ill, and generally get the crap end of life's stick.

To all the dads, uncles, sons, grandfathers and brothers out there, remember equality works both ways.

And when you raise points like this as a man you risk and interview with your employer, even when you wrote it outside work on your own computer!

 

 

It was actually a Lord who objected to women working bare-breasted alongside men, and was also concerned about the number of the deaths of children down the mines.  Queen Victoria ordered an enquiry; the upshot being legislation introduced prohibiting women from working down the pits and boys under 10.  Women and children had been paid less than the men, and whilst the powers that be deemed that women shouldn't be half-naked and should be at home as such behaviour was unbecoming for 'young ladies' yet to be married (despite the fact some were already married!) and should be at home tied to the kitchen sink, history (as opposed to herstory) reports that the male miners were happy because they then had more clout in wage negotiations.  It was quite common up until this point for women to be the main breadwinners of families and not men.



#7 Whistle and Flute

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 05:57 PM

That's very interesting concerning women in coal mining. Though this was not the case in Tin Mining (in fact much of the metal mining industries). The miners or "Bal Maidens" wore protective clothing and they were affected more by a number of the Factory Acts and male pressure for increased wages. Despite this, they continued working up until the end of the 19th century with the very last working until the 1920s. There is a great website resource dedicated to their history http://www.balmaiden...rnwallDevon.htm

 

I should add, that my wife's ancestors are on this site! Her family moved from Cornwall to South Wales when the tin mining was in decline.

 

It was actually a Lord who objected to women working bare-breasted alongside men, and was also concerned about the number of the deaths of children down the mines.  Queen Victoria ordered an enquiry; the upshot being legislation introduced prohibiting women from working down the pits and boys under 10.  Women and children had been paid less than the men, and whilst the powers that be deemed that women shouldn't be half-naked and should be at home as such behaviour was unbecoming for 'young ladies' yet to be married (despite the fact some were already married!) and should be at home tied to the kitchen sink, history (as opposed to herstory) reports that the male miners were happy because they then had more clout in wage negotiations.  It was quite common up until this point for women to be the main breadwinners of families and not men.

 


Edited by Whistle and Flute, 06 February 2018 - 06:02 PM.


#8 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 07:21 PM

@ Whistle and Flute - I'll have a read of the link, thanks!

 

The reason I remember women and coal mining so well is because our tutor drummed it into us at an Open University lecture.  Suffrage I remember from further studying and attending the Women's Library, going through the personal effects of Emily Davison and also the Pankhursts, fascinating reading.


Edited by Suffererof1crankymofo, 06 February 2018 - 07:22 PM.


#9 BigMouth

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:02 AM

Men are stronger than women? Wrong. Some men are stronger than some women. When a woman needs to summon strength she can, but when there is something to lift at work, a table to move, I notice the women take a step back. As in most things, women choose not to. Most of what we do these days has some level of automation or mechanical assistance. Strength is less of a reason to be a barrier to a woman taking on a physical role, but mostly they choose not to. There is one woman working on the essy kerts in Shetland, the rest are men. It is unlikely that there will be many bags of rubbish that will exceed 25 kilos, judging by what I throw away. Working in this environment needs stamina and a robust spirit more than it needs strength, but with the alternative of working in a nice warm office, rather than being rained on and having the juice of rubbish bags running down your overalls and the risk of broken glass cutting you, and the hideous pong, I can see why women flock in droves to office jobs.

Women are better at bringing up kids. Wrong. There is no reason why a man can't bring up children. Boys particularly thrive when they have good male role models. I spoke to a single mum with three boys to look after. She worked full time to support them, but she said that they didn't see a man from one week to the next. They were dropped off at school, where they were solely taught by female staff, were child-minded after school by a woman, and some evenings would do after school activities, including Cubs (or perhaps it was Scouts?), which was completely run by women. There was no boyfriend on the scene. I have no doubt that she was an excellent mum, but her greatest desire was that her boys had some male influence, she didn't necessarily want to be in a relationship, but could see the benefits and balance that men could bring.

Only men discriminate. Wrong. I was in a meeting not that long ago where a female department head proudly announced that she had got rid of all the men from her department. This took place in front of a dozen women and two men. If it had been a man saying that about women I am sure that man would have been having an interview without coffee with the personnel department. Different rules depending on your sex.

Domestic abuse is always caused by men. Wrong. As someone who has been on the end of domestic violence many years ago from a woman, I know that this is not the case. Women have a well funded support mechanism in Shetland along with places of safety. Guess what men have? Nothing. They go to Aberdeen if they are lucky. It's more likely that the man will say nothing about it, because he will be ashamed. Being a man on the end of domestic violence is not the norm. Society expects men to be strong in the same way that it expects women to be motherly.

Men have no say in the life of the unborn child. All too commonly women will decide to have a discretionary abortion, a lifestyle choice. The man has no say. The woman decides to dispose of that child and gets away with it. If a man was to murder that unborn child he would go to prison for it.

Women suffer the indignity of breast screening and cervical smears. Men suffer the indignity of prostate cancer. Somehow science can produce reliable screening tests for women, but when it comes to men's prostates - nothing.

Men's sperm is a valuable commodity, so much so that men who have donated that sperm to a sperm bank have been taken to court for maintenance for a child brought about by an altruistic act. Men's sperm has been stolen from used condoms by women who wanted to impregnate themselves, when the man was unwilling to have children. This is a good reason why men need more contraceptive choices. Women can have the pill or implants, or a variety of other devices, but for men? Nothing readily but the condom. Society does not want men to have sexual freedom. To which the answer will be that men sleep around. To which the obvious response is that if they are heterosexual, then surely they are sleeping around with women?

A man's career, his whole life can be ruined by an accusation of rape. Only recently a man was spared a court case at the final hour when the prosecution released evidence that showed that he was innocent. The accuser had made the rape up. If a woman can destroy a man's life so easily then the legal system should be putting the false accuser in prison. Desperate are the days when men are having to use their smartphones to record asking for permission to engage in sex with a woman.

I recently asked a woman if she could explain why for every one hundred patients GP surgeries saw, sixty were women and only forty were men. Her explanation was that women's bodies are more complicated. Could the reality be that services are skewed towards women to the disadvantage of men?

Political representation. I noticed that the SNP had officers for certain interest groups including: students, artists, women, disabled, etc., etc. It was odd that about the only group that did not have representation was men. I looked at the other parties and the same was true of them too. No representation for men, roughly 50% of the population are male.

Women have long retired at 60, whereas men worked on, usually in less comfortable jobs until they were 65, if they didn't die first of some hideous industrial illness. This was despite women usually living eight years longer on average and usually in better health, and this has been true for many decades. That gap has stayed much the same The retirement age is now somewhere between 65 and 67 for the majority of both sexes, which brings us somewhere closer to equality, but to reach parity in the number of likely years in retirement, men should retire at 67 and women should retire at 75. There is a campaign - WASPI - Women Against State Pension (age) Increase. It's a group of women that have been most affected by the fact that the pension age for the sexes has been aligned. They thought they were going to slope out of their nice warm offices at 60, then swan about at home in retirement for 26 years on average, but equality struck and they are now going to be retiring at 66, and they don't like it one bit. The problem is that when women get real equality they're not so keen on it. If we went back to the days of conscription, (not hard to imagine in the current situation that the military are finding it so hard to recruit, despite being a force that is reducing in size), in a truly equal society they would be calling up young women as well as young men to fight and die in our wars of choice around the world. It won't happen though because society finds the idea of fit young men dying in some god-forsaken hellhole so much more palatable than a young woman having to die in the same situation. Men's lives are worth less.

And when it comes to work look at the advantages given to women - one of their favourites is women only shortlists. That just a way of saying, we have men that are better, but the only way that any of you will get this job is by us not interviewing the better candidates. We are willing to accept second best. Men are yet again discriminated against. The trend has become more worrying when the BBC recently advertised a job where only applicants from black and minority ethnic backgrounds can apply. You're discriminated against if you are white.

Surely male and female genitals are of equal worth? Nope. If someone takes a scalpel to your genitals where there is no medical need then it's called genital mutilation, but only if you are female. If you are male then not even the World Health Organisation will recognise that your genitals are being mutilated, but if you are a woman they will organise a worldwide campaign - Female Genital Mutilation awareness week. Of course there are those of us that like to ask questions, raise awkward truths, so we contact the WHO and ask when is the Male Genital Mutilation awareness week? Unsurprisingly there was no response.

Why do married men die before their wives? Studies record the most common reason is because they wanted to!

Guys, women don't want equality. What they want is advantage. They will say that men have had it for long enough. Well girls, if it's not right for us, it's not right for you either is it? If you want the good stuff then take an equal amount of the crap us men have been taking for years. Don't be telling me that your granny was down the mines digging nutty slack with a babe at her breast. Tell me what you are doing now, the suffering of loading that washing machine, tumble dryer, dishwasher, that long drive to the shops or the wait in for that Tesco delivery van. I want to know everything. Tell me about having to walk over to the other side of the living room to get the remote for the TV/Sky box or whatever. Putting the cup under that bean to cup coffee maker or having to ring up for a hair appointment, and they probably won't have the magazine that you like. The cost of lipstick, having to tweezer your eyebrows to death so you look like an escapee from the circus, piercings and tattoos. Highlights, lowlights, botoxed lips, diets, central heating, car boots that close themselves, no quinoa on the shelves, panty liners, tottering around on heels that make you look afflicted, offices that despite being overheated are still not warm enough for you, men in your department (doing the heavy lifting usually). Girls - you've got so it hard. I don't know how you do it!
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#10 Wheelsup

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 08:29 AM

You are either stirring it or  had some bad experiences.  Perhaps gender re-alignment would give you a way out.



#11 JustMe

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:10 AM

I agree with BigMouth about women only short lists being wrong.  Short lists should contain the best people for the position they seek regardless of gender, sexuality, ethnic origin, age or which Spice Girl they prefer.  Perhaps a rule to say that there should be one woman on a short list would be OK as there is a kind on imbalance in lots of elected bodies but no more than that.



#12 Tammychoink

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:22 AM

While I disagree with most of what BigMouth has to say, I applaud him for saying it. For too long an incessant deluge of sanctimonious pseudo-feminist claptrap has been furiously tapped into keyboards, completely unchecked.  I love it when folk like BigMouth retort with equal bluster, refusing to be cowed by the shrill and the self-righteous. 

 

Yes, some of his points are, to my mind, highly subjective. However, I think his eloquent diatribe is a refreshing foil to the shrill babblings from the ranks of the humourless and boring who would have us all be gender-free automatons in a sterile brave new world  - and it makes for entertaining reading!


Edited by Tammychoink, 07 February 2018 - 09:27 AM.

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#13 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 03:36 PM

Oh look, mansplaining at its finest.  :evil:


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#14 Scorrie

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 05:37 PM

....... or which Spice Girl they prefer.  

 

Sporty Spice. And nobody is going to take away my right to like her!


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#15 BigMouth

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:53 PM

Human papilloma virus is an STD that can cause warts and genital (amongst other areas) cancer in both sexes. There is a vaccine available for this, and in the United States young, mostly teenagers, of both sexes are given this vaccine. This is useful as it will control the disease in heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual populations. In the UK the vaccine is only given to females. Men lose out (again), but particularly homosexual men.

Suicide is one area where sadly men are not under-represented. Twice as many men in Scotland committed suicide in 2016 as women. Every death like this is tragic.

I was reading recently that volunteers are hard to find for kid's activities in Shetland. Going back to the Mum of three boys with no male influence, it was her that told me that there were no men in the local Cub's group. Men won't go into a system where it is automatically assumed that they are guilty of some ill-deed, a danger to children, and that they have to prove otherwise. Everyone understands the need for the children's safety, but most men have voted with their feet and decided not to involve themselves in children's activities. One rumour can ruin a man's reputation, so why bother giving your time for free with such risks involved? Why bother going through the clearance procedure? That leaves women to run these activities, but it looks as though they are choosing not to engage in these activities either, despite the risk to them being so much lower.

I asked the local SNP why there was no Men's Officer - apparently women have more issues. Obviously not any of the main points I have discussed so far.

I was brought up to hold open a door for anyone following me. The reaction from men is either: a thanks, a grunt or a nod. You never quite know what you will get with a woman. With a young woman it is all too often a sneer or an entitled look, with not so much as a thank you. Older women can be very effusive in their thanks, especially when I tell them that I am not sure if I should be doing it any more. On two occasions women have told me that they are perfectly capable of opening a door for themselves, or words to that effect. A bad day perhaps, period pains or just another vile feminazi? One never knows. So if a guy lets a door go in your face girls then blame the sisterhood.

#16 Sukibind

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:22 PM

My goodness me! You really do have a huge grudge against women. All around the world today woman and girls are still oppressed, whilst all males enjoy total freedom. I am not sure why you seem to hate a small celebration of the right to vote being ‘granted’ to women 100 years ago, albeit ones with thier own property and over 30 years of age.
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#17 George.

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 09:37 PM

My goodness me! You really do have a huge grudge against women. All around the world today woman and girls are still oppressed, whilst all males enjoy total freedom. I am not sure why you seem to hate a small celebration of the right to vote being ‘granted’ to women 100 years ago, albeit ones with thier own property and over 30 years of age.

 

Males do not, and never have, enjoed total freedom.

 

What Are Some Common Forms of Sexism That Men Face?


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#18 Rasmie

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 10:01 AM

some men are more equal than others. women are not to blame



#19 George.

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 04:42 PM

some men are more equal than others. women are not to blame

 

Likewise, some women are more equal than others, but make little attempt to prove it. Where's the difference?



#20 BigMouth

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 01:31 AM