Jump to content

  • Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter Log In with LinkedIn Log In with Google      Sign In   
  • Create Account

Photo

Recycle! Positive Comments Welcome

recycle plastic tins bins glass

  • Please log in to reply
326 replies to this topic

#81 Space

Space

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 66 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:16 AM

A positive thought, putting a scheme in place does not mean it will work brilliantly from the start, but evaluating and monitoring will show where improvements can be made over time... the continuous improvement thing.

 

A negative thought, I've got that Gove brexit quote in my head dammit, Britons "have had enough of experts" - that's policy making for you  :huh:


Edited by Space, 15 February 2018 - 09:17 AM.

  • ETLerwick likes this

#82 George.

George.

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 978 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:50 AM

A positive thought, putting a scheme in place does not mean it will work brilliantly from the start, but evaluating and monitoring will show where improvements can be made over time... the continuous improvement thing.

 

A negative thought, I've got that Gove brexit quote in my head dammit, Britons "have had enough of experts" - that's policy making for you  :huh:

 

Putting a scheme in place doesn't mean that it will work at all. After all, the S. I. C decided to stop putting skips around the islands for the use of the people.. Now they've decided to charge us for the uplift of anything that's too big to fit in the bin. The S. I. C. are their own negative thought - and they charge us for it, while not providing half the services that they used to provide.


  • Suffererof1crankymofo likes this

#83 suuusssiiieee

suuusssiiieee

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 310 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:51 AM

I got my black bags from Shetland Janitorial, great quality, box of 200 for £24.00. Works out at 12p a bag excellent value.

Edited by suuusssiiieee, 15 February 2018 - 09:52 AM.

  • thebfg likes this

#84 Suffererof1crankymofo

Suffererof1crankymofo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 632 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 09:53 AM

 

 

Please, let's use this thread to ....... answer questions,....

 

Where is the evidence, preferably in the form of a detailed, comprehensive, accurate, realistic and  believable environmental audit, proving the proposed changes will create a more environmentally beneficial situation than the status quo?

 

 

 

Just had a looks at zero waste Scotlands page under: improving recycling performance>local authorities... "We can work with local authorities to ensure their projects are evaluated and monitored to show their impact."... so it's quite likely that there is no detailed, comprehensive etc. evidence. I didn't see any local authority schemes in the case studies. So perhaps the answer is to be evaluated when up and running.

 

Of course they can 'work' with local authorities - who pays them?  What's their fee or is it all funded by the Scot. Gov. aka tax payers?  The more local authorities the bods employed by Zero Waste Scotland get to use their services, the more they can justify their jobs and tick a box so they get a pad on the head too.  Best factor in their running costs, including travel, when they knock on all the doors in Shetland explaining how the recycling scheme will work too; that's bound to have a carbon footprint, right?



#85 Suffererof1crankymofo

Suffererof1crankymofo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 632 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:04 AM

 

 

I have just been given a good suggestion regarding the bulky uplifts. Although this wasn't what the OP was discussing.

OK it is £30 or £10 for 6 items.

So if people in an area got together and pooled their requirements, say if two of you had 3 items each that would be  £15 or £5 each.

This forum would be the ideal place to organise this from.

So you reckon that your neighbours, assuming you're on speaking terms, will all be purchasing replacement furniture, white goods, etc., and disposing of their old ones at the same time, do you?  If you live in social housing, you can't necessarily whack it in your back garden because the SIC don't like it plus more often than not come a gale and you have a washing machine literally flying around your garden (seen it happen).

 

 

 

Oh dear..

Now where did I say all that?

The suggestion is in answer to how we stop people flytipping and somehow throwing large bulky items into the sea now that the local skips have stopped.

Which by the way was not what the original OP was talking about.

Anyway if for instance folk in Brae managed to hold onto their bulky items until the skip turned up. It is not impossible to imagine that they could hold onto the same items until there were 6 items in the area.

 

So you want folk to discuss with their neighbours when they intend to buy new items so that they can get together to organise the 6 items for collection?  Me thinks the skips were more regular than what you're envisaging is required to work.  Now I could be wrong but given that the skips have been gone a while now, perhaps a Freedom of Information Act application is in order to ascertain just how much dosh has been generated by the bulk collection scheme, how many tonnes/items collected compared to the cost of the skips.  Somehow, I have a feeling that the skips collected more items.

You know what?  It's none of my neighbours' business as to when I intend replacing furniture/white goods.  Besides, at least two of the properties around here have a high turnover of occupants; for example, one such property has had 3 different tenants in under a year.



#86 Space

Space

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 66 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:07 AM

 

 

 

Please, let's use this thread to ....... answer questions,....

 

Where is the evidence, preferably in the form of a detailed, comprehensive, accurate, realistic and  believable environmental audit, proving the proposed changes will create a more environmentally beneficial situation than the status quo?

 

 

 

Just had a looks at zero waste Scotlands page under: improving recycling performance>local authorities... "We can work with local authorities to ensure their projects are evaluated and monitored to show their impact."... so it's quite likely that there is no detailed, comprehensive etc. evidence. I didn't see any local authority schemes in the case studies. So perhaps the answer is to be evaluated when up and running.

 

Of course they can 'work' with local authorities - who pays them?  What's their fee or is it all funded by the Scot. Gov. aka tax payers?  The more local authorities the bods employed by Zero Waste Scotland get to use their services, the more they can justify their jobs and tick a box so they get a pad on the head too.  Best factor in their running costs, including travel, when they knock on all the doors in Shetland explaining how the recycling scheme will work too; that's bound to have a carbon footprint, right?

 

 

Right. Impacts and costs can be positive or negative. We don't have all the answers.



#87 Suffererof1crankymofo

Suffererof1crankymofo

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 632 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:18 AM

 

 

 

 

Please, let's use this thread to ....... answer questions,....

 

Where is the evidence, preferably in the form of a detailed, comprehensive, accurate, realistic and  believable environmental audit, proving the proposed changes will create a more environmentally beneficial situation than the status quo?

 

 

 

Just had a looks at zero waste Scotlands page under: improving recycling performance>local authorities... "We can work with local authorities to ensure their projects are evaluated and monitored to show their impact."... so it's quite likely that there is no detailed, comprehensive etc. evidence. I didn't see any local authority schemes in the case studies. So perhaps the answer is to be evaluated when up and running.

 

Of course they can 'work' with local authorities - who pays them?  What's their fee or is it all funded by the Scot. Gov. aka tax payers?  The more local authorities the bods employed by Zero Waste Scotland get to use their services, the more they can justify their jobs and tick a box so they get a pad on the head too.  Best factor in their running costs, including travel, when they knock on all the doors in Shetland explaining how the recycling scheme will work too; that's bound to have a carbon footprint, right?

 

 

Right. Impacts and costs can be positive or negative. We don't have all the answers.

 

Yet this grand scheme has been sold to our beloved SIC councillors on the premise that it will cost X pounds and it will save X pounds, and it will save the planet/tick a box.  What was the figure?  Something like £22k or £28k a year in savings IF other councils use our facilities.  Wonder what the contingency sum is, surely they've got one to take into account what the pilot scheme might throw up?  Positive thought:  perhaps there won't be any additional costs. ;-)



#88 mikeyboy

mikeyboy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 430 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:24 AM

 

 

 

I have just been given a good suggestion regarding the bulky uplifts. Although this wasn't what the OP was discussing.

OK it is £30 or £10 for 6 items.

So if people in an area got together and pooled their requirements, say if two of you had 3 items each that would be  £15 or £5 each.

This forum would be the ideal place to organise this from.

So you reckon that your neighbours, assuming you're on speaking terms, will all be purchasing replacement furniture, white goods, etc., and disposing of their old ones at the same time, do you?  If you live in social housing, you can't necessarily whack it in your back garden because the SIC don't like it plus more often than not come a gale and you have a washing machine literally flying around your garden (seen it happen).

 

 

 

Oh dear..

Now where did I say all that?

The suggestion is in answer to how we stop people flytipping and somehow throwing large bulky items into the sea now that the local skips have stopped.

Which by the way was not what the original OP was talking about.

Anyway if for instance folk in Brae managed to hold onto their bulky items until the skip turned up. It is not impossible to imagine that they could hold onto the same items until there were 6 items in the area.

 

So you want folk to discuss with their neighbours when they intend to buy new items so that they can get together to organise the 6 items for collection?  Me thinks the skips were more regular than what you're envisaging is required to work.  Now I could be wrong but given that the skips have been gone a while now, perhaps a Freedom of Information Act application is in order to ascertain just how much dosh has been generated by the bulk collection scheme, how many tonnes/items collected compared to the cost of the skips.  Somehow, I have a feeling that the skips collected more items.

You know what?  It's none of my neighbours' business as to when I intend replacing furniture/white goods.  Besides, at least two of the properties around here have a high turnover of occupants; for example, one such property has had 3 different tenants in under a year.

 

 

 

Again where did I say that?

That really is a bad habit, putting words in other people mouths.


  • ETLerwick likes this

#89 Space

Space

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 66 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:27 AM

 

 

 

 

 

Please, let's use this thread to ....... answer questions,....

 

Where is the evidence, preferably in the form of a detailed, comprehensive, accurate, realistic and  believable environmental audit, proving the proposed changes will create a more environmentally beneficial situation than the status quo?

 

 

 

Just had a looks at zero waste Scotlands page under: improving recycling performance>local authorities... "We can work with local authorities to ensure their projects are evaluated and monitored to show their impact."... so it's quite likely that there is no detailed, comprehensive etc. evidence. I didn't see any local authority schemes in the case studies. So perhaps the answer is to be evaluated when up and running.

 

Of course they can 'work' with local authorities - who pays them?  What's their fee or is it all funded by the Scot. Gov. aka tax payers?  The more local authorities the bods employed by Zero Waste Scotland get to use their services, the more they can justify their jobs and tick a box so they get a pad on the head too.  Best factor in their running costs, including travel, when they knock on all the doors in Shetland explaining how the recycling scheme will work too; that's bound to have a carbon footprint, right?

 

 

Right. Impacts and costs can be positive or negative. We don't have all the answers.

 

Yet this grand scheme has been sold to our beloved SIC councillors on the premise that it will cost X pounds and it will save X pounds, and it will save the planet/tick a box.  What was the figure?  Something like £22k or £28k a year in savings IF other councils use our facilities.  Wonder what the contingency sum is, surely they've got one to take into account what the pilot scheme might throw up?  Positive thought:  perhaps there won't be any additional costs. ;-)

 

Sold? they've (SIC) or we've just been presented with another fait accompli. It pisses me off quite a bit how often this happen re: 'comunity' type schemes (e.g. windfarms, schools). Modern life is rubbish etc. With this recycling thing, I'm just interested in talking about how it could best work as per the OP, I do get that its not necessarily the best plan for Shetland, but I agree with the principal of recycling, reuse etc.


  • ETLerwick likes this

#90 mikeyboy

mikeyboy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 430 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 10:28 AM

It really is as simple as somebody posting that they have an item for uplift in say Mossbank. Has anybody else got anything to be uplifted?


  • Space likes this

#91 Space

Space

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 66 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:59 AM

Once I've chucked paper, card, cardboard in the blue-lidded bin and cans, cartons, tins in the grey and put stuff in the compost, I'b be surprised if the usually presented black bag has much left in it, even after 2 weeks.
I have relatives in Europe. They have to separate their waste much more before collection, e.g. newspapers stacked and tied in a certain way, to very specific dimensions so they can be efficiently loaded onto a lorry. Glass, plastic, tins much better separated. The way we are being asked to present waste means more processing at the other end. i would be very happy to separate waste as much as possible to help any future recycling efforts.
Have you ever ordered something small off say Amazon (e.g. toothpicks) and they send it in a box 20+ times the size with masses of bubble wrap or crumples brown paper padding, when an envelope would have done the job just as well... annoyance!

Edited by Space, 15 February 2018 - 12:00 PM.

  • thebfg and ETLerwick like this

#92 Guest_tiodylb17_*

Guest_tiodylb17_*
  • Guests

Posted 15 February 2018 - 01:55 PM

Be good to see Shetland Dairy go back to the old school glass milk bottles you can return



#93 ETLerwick

ETLerwick

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:29 PM

Today I are mostly would be seeing our Council-provided wheelie bins avec their two bungee straps flying through the air with greatest of ease pass my windows on their way to Norway!

Was there something about how you attached them/ secured them that could have contributed to this flight(s)?



#94 ETLerwick

ETLerwick

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:32 PM

There is/was a scheme where a youth club got paid (some of the Miserati’s money) for cleaning up a beach. Not exactly sure who paid, but would have the amenity trust or council. The kids used the money to subsidise a sports trip

Maybe a Go-Fund-Me scheme set up by the kids' group(s)?



#95 ETLerwick

ETLerwick

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:34 PM

 

 

 

Please, let's use this thread to ....... answer questions,....

 

Where is the evidence, preferably in the form of a detailed, comprehensive, accurate, realistic and  believable environmental audit, proving the proposed changes will create a more environmentally beneficial situation than the status quo?

 

Don't refer me to the cherry picked waffling piece of spin and propoganda that's been waved around so far either, its devoid of accuracy and fluffily light on data quantified in numbers and hard facts to the point its more unhelpful than helpful.

 

Prove this is an environmentally beneficial change and I'll back it, otherwise it IS just a box ticking political exercise that deserves contempt.

 

Just because 'Zero Waste Scotland' aka. Holyrood says it is, most certainly does not make it so - if for no other reason than they are political, and by default of being so operate primarily to a political agenda.

 

Your single question deserves an answer. Please attend a Carbon Literacy seminar and teach yourself about how to answer your own question.

 

Further, what will you do to recycle?

 

 

Stop side stepping the question by moving the goalposts.

 

The EU, via the Scottish Government via the SIC expects me to expend the time and effort to required, to comply with their new refuse collection and disposal model.

 

I do not believe their new model to be less damaging to the planet's resources and the environment than the current model in use, in fact I believe their new model will consume more of the planet's resources and cause greater enviornmental damage that the current model. The onus is on the EU, via the Scottish Government, via the SIC to provide proof their new model consumes less of the planet's resource and causes less environmental damage than the current model if they're expecting folk's cooperation, not on each individual to go and seek on that answer for themselves. They're proposing the change, they're implementing the change, its their responsibility to convince people its the right one.

 

I'll skip over the patronising arrogance of your reply, which in and of itself marks you down as very probably an SIC employee. But I will point out that I have disabilities which prevent me from attending most events. What provision is there to make reasonable adjustments so that someone with disabilities is not excluded from these seminars you mention?

 

Finally, regardless what may be on offer at any seminar, it is not going to answer my questions, which are case specific to the SIC's new waste collection, management and disposal proposals, as they have not revealed/quantified the amounts involved.

 

What tonnage of combustible material will their proposal remove from the incinerator, and what is the loss of thermal capacity to SHEAP by default of that removal of fuel? How many tonnes of material will be shipped to Aberdeen and onward haulage, and what is the carbon footprint in transportation terms of each of those tonnes to reach its reprocessing destination? What are the current/historical emissions of the incinerator, and what are they expected to be once teh new model is up and running? I could go on all night, and I'd still not e done, but you get the gist....

 

ALL of the above questions and their answers, and dozens more factor in to the big picture equation of whether or not the new model is an 'improvement' over the current model, or not. Where are those questions answered, where is the data to do so with, why has it not been published in full? They surely wouldn't have something to hide, would they.

 

Blind us with science, stop trying to baffle us with bovine excrement.

 

As to what I do to recycle - and I'm getting a little tired answering this question on here. I do what I've always done, and most Shetlanders used to do. Pretty much anything I own, or have ever owned was obtained used. When something breaks, I fix it. When something is unfixable, it gets broken up and component parts 're-purposed', and if SIC - Housing had had the midder wit to provide every house they own with at least one lum, instead of everything run on diesel guzzling over-priced electric, I could carry in both hands with room to spare all I'd actually throw away each week, as the rest would be helping keep me warm.

 

Thank you again for your opinion -- and for all you do to recycle/ reuse/ in Shetland. Every little bit helps


  • mikeyboy likes this

#96 ETLerwick

ETLerwick

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:42 PM

 

". . .
Have you ever ordered something small off say Amazon (e.g. toothpicks) and they send it in a box 20+ times the size with masses of bubble wrap or crumples brown paper padding, when an envelope would have done the job just as well... annoyance!

 

You could contact your vendor and explain that you're most interested in the most economical/ green  shipping scheme, and yes, you're willing to assume some liability for a few broken toothpicks.



#97 ETLerwick

ETLerwick

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 37 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 04:44 PM

Thanks again to all, for these contributions.

 

I'm looking f'w'd to helping make this scheme -- and its improvements work for Shetland. Every program of this type has to start somewhere, and yes, there will be growing pains. But let's do whatever we can to get from here to there as quickly as possible. 


  • mikeyboy likes this

#98 mikeyboy

mikeyboy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 430 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:09 PM

 

 

". . .
Have you ever ordered something small off say Amazon (e.g. toothpicks) and they send it in a box 20+ times the size with masses of bubble wrap or crumples brown paper padding, when an envelope would have done the job just as well... annoyance!

 

You could contact your vendor and explain that you're most interested in the most economical/ green  shipping scheme, and yes, you're willing to assume some liability for a few broken toothpicks.

 

I seem to remember Amazon had a feedback button specifically for packaging, will check my account.

 

Yes if you go into your orders you can leave packaging feedback on each order.


Edited by mikeyboy, 15 February 2018 - 05:11 PM.

  • Space likes this

#99 Frances144

Frances144

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 3999 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:12 PM

OOh interesting and good to know, Mikeyboy. I had some earphones delivered and they came in plastic in plastic in plastic that involved me finding a knife to try and stab my through.



#100 Ghostrider

Ghostrider

    1crankymofo

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 8883 posts

Posted 15 February 2018 - 06:45 PM

 

 

 

 

Please, let's use this thread to ....... answer questions,....

 

Where is the evidence, preferably in the form of a detailed, comprehensive, accurate, realistic and  believable environmental audit, proving the proposed changes will create a more environmentally beneficial situation than the status quo?

 

Don't refer me to the cherry picked waffling piece of spin and propoganda that's been waved around so far either, its devoid of accuracy and fluffily light on data quantified in numbers and hard facts to the point its more unhelpful than helpful.

 

Prove this is an environmentally beneficial change and I'll back it, otherwise it IS just a box ticking political exercise that deserves contempt.

 

Just because 'Zero Waste Scotland' aka. Holyrood says it is, most certainly does not make it so - if for no other reason than they are political, and by default of being so operate primarily to a political agenda.

 

Your single question deserves an answer. Please attend a Carbon Literacy seminar and teach yourself about how to answer your own question.

 

Further, what will you do to recycle?

 

 

Stop side stepping the question by moving the goalposts.

 

The EU, via the Scottish Government via the SIC expects me to expend the time and effort to required, to comply with their new refuse collection and disposal model.

 

I do not believe their new model to be less damaging to the planet's resources and the environment than the current model in use, in fact I believe their new model will consume more of the planet's resources and cause greater enviornmental damage that the current model. The onus is on the EU, via the Scottish Government, via the SIC to provide proof their new model consumes less of the planet's resource and causes less environmental damage than the current model if they're expecting folk's cooperation, not on each individual to go and seek on that answer for themselves. They're proposing the change, they're implementing the change, its their responsibility to convince people its the right one.

 

I'll skip over the patronising arrogance of your reply, which in and of itself marks you down as very probably an SIC employee. But I will point out that I have disabilities which prevent me from attending most events. What provision is there to make reasonable adjustments so that someone with disabilities is not excluded from these seminars you mention?

 

Finally, regardless what may be on offer at any seminar, it is not going to answer my questions, which are case specific to the SIC's new waste collection, management and disposal proposals, as they have not revealed/quantified the amounts involved.

 

What tonnage of combustible material will their proposal remove from the incinerator, and what is the loss of thermal capacity to SHEAP by default of that removal of fuel? How many tonnes of material will be shipped to Aberdeen and onward haulage, and what is the carbon footprint in transportation terms of each of those tonnes to reach its reprocessing destination? What are the current/historical emissions of the incinerator, and what are they expected to be once teh new model is up and running? I could go on all night, and I'd still not e done, but you get the gist....

 

ALL of the above questions and their answers, and dozens more factor in to the big picture equation of whether or not the new model is an 'improvement' over the current model, or not. Where are those questions answered, where is the data to do so with, why has it not been published in full? They surely wouldn't have something to hide, would they.

 

Blind us with science, stop trying to baffle us with bovine excrement.

 

As to what I do to recycle - and I'm getting a little tired answering this question on here. I do what I've always done, and most Shetlanders used to do. Pretty much anything I own, or have ever owned was obtained used. When something breaks, I fix it. When something is unfixable, it gets broken up and component parts 're-purposed', and if SIC - Housing had had the midder wit to provide every house they own with at least one lum, instead of everything run on diesel guzzling over-priced electric, I could carry in both hands with room to spare all I'd actually throw away each week, as the rest would be helping keep me warm.

 

Why are you under the impression that the OP has to answer your questions?

 

If in any doubt here is here post below:

 

Who Ray! Looking forward to recycle efforts in Shetland. 

 

Help spread the word to locals, tourists, and everyone who can do this responsible bit, to clean up after one's-self. Let's do all we can to make this work.

 

Read the Shetland Times and review the SIC link that leads to the 'how-to' page, so that you can understand how to sort, manage, curb and otherwise support recycling isle-wide.

 

Please, let's use this thread to support the effort, answer questions, support each other -- if you want to post negative responses, please start another thread.

 

Thank you in advance! 

 

 

I'm not, and never said I was. The OP said to use it to 'answer questions' (see emboldened in your copy and paste), questions need to be asked before they can be answered, and I'm asking mine. I don't mind who answers them, although it would be encuraging to see the OP at least try to seeing as they started this.