Recycle! Positive Comments Welcome

[ETLerwick]

 

 

 

 

 

Please, let's use this thread to ....... answer questions,....

 

Where is the evidence, preferably in the form of a detailed, comprehensive, accurate, realistic and  believable environmental audit, proving the proposed changes will create a more environmentally beneficial situation than the status quo?

 

Don't refer me to the cherry picked waffling piece of spin and propoganda that's been waved around so far either, its devoid of accuracy and fluffily light on data quantified in numbers and hard facts to the point its more unhelpful than helpful.

 

Prove this is an environmentally beneficial change and I'll back it, otherwise it IS just a box ticking political exercise that deserves contempt.

 

Just because 'Zero Waste Scotland' aka. Holyrood says it is, most certainly does not make it so - if for no other reason than they are political, and by default of being so operate primarily to a political agenda.

 

Your single question deserves an answer. Please attend a Carbon Literacy seminar and teach yourself about how to answer your own question.

 

Further, what will you do to recycle?

 

 

Stop side stepping the question by moving the goalposts.

 

The EU, via the Scottish Government via the SIC expects me to expend the time and effort to required, to comply with their new refuse collection and disposal model.

 

I do not believe their new model to be less damaging to the planet's resources and the environment than the current model in use, in fact I believe their new model will consume more of the planet's resources and cause greater enviornmental damage that the current model. The onus is on the EU, via the Scottish Government, via the SIC to provide proof their new model consumes less of the planet's resource and causes less environmental damage than the current model if they're expecting folk's cooperation, not on each individual to go and seek on that answer for themselves. They're proposing the change, they're implementing the change, its their responsibility to convince people its the right one.

 

I'll skip over the patronising arrogance of your reply, which in and of itself marks you down as very probably an SIC employee. But I will point out that I have disabilities which prevent me from attending most events. What provision is there to make reasonable adjustments so that someone with disabilities is not excluded from these seminars you mention?

 

Finally, regardless what may be on offer at any seminar, it is not going to answer my questions, which are case specific to the SIC's new waste collection, management and disposal proposals, as they have not revealed/quantified the amounts involved.

 

What tonnage of combustible material will their proposal remove from the incinerator, and what is the loss of thermal capacity to SHEAP by default of that removal of fuel? How many tonnes of material will be shipped to Aberdeen and onward haulage, and what is the carbon footprint in transportation terms of each of those tonnes to reach its reprocessing destination? What are the current/historical emissions of the incinerator, and what are they expected to be once teh new model is up and running? I could go on all night, and I'd still not e done, but you get the gist....

 

ALL of the above questions and their answers, and dozens more factor in to the big picture equation of whether or not the new model is an 'improvement' over the current model, or not. Where are those questions answered, where is the data to do so with, why has it not been published in full? They surely wouldn't have something to hide, would they.

 

Blind us with science, stop trying to baffle us with bovine excrement.

 

As to what I do to recycle - and I'm getting a little tired answering this question on here. I do what I've always done, and most Shetlanders used to do. Pretty much anything I own, or have ever owned was obtained used. When something breaks, I fix it. When something is unfixable, it gets broken up and component parts 're-purposed', and if SIC - Housing had had the midder wit to provide every house they own with at least one lum, instead of everything run on diesel guzzling over-priced electric, I could carry in both hands with room to spare all I'd actually throw away each week, as the rest would be helping keep me warm.

 

Why are you under the impression that the OP has to answer your questions?

 

If in any doubt here is here post below:

 

Who Ray! Looking forward to recycle efforts in Shetland. 

 

Help spread the word to locals, tourists, and everyone who can do this responsible bit, to clean up after one's-self. Let's do all we can to make this work.

 

Read the Shetland Times and review the SIC link that leads to the 'how-to' page, so that you can understand how to sort, manage, curb and otherwise support recycling isle-wide.

 

Please, let's use this thread to support the effort, answer questions, support each other -- if you want to post negative responses, please start another thread.

 

Thank you in advance! 

 

 

I'm not, and never said I was. The OP said to use it to 'answer questions' (see emboldened in your copy and paste), questions need to be asked before they can be answered, and I'm asking mine. I don't mind who answers them, although it would be encuraging to see the OP at least try to seeing as they started this.

 

As to these questions:

"What tonnage of combustible material will their proposal remove from the incinerator, and what is the loss of thermal capacity to SHEAP by default of that removal of fuel? How many tonnes of material will be shipped to Aberdeen and onward haulage, and what is the carbon footprint in transportation terms of each of those tonnes to reach its reprocessing destination? What are the current/historical emissions of the incinerator, and what are they expected to be once teh new model is up and running?"

 

You're asking for crystal-ball answers, or at least only assumptions for answers, since the individually quantify-able variables involved have not yet been defined in practical use. No one on earth can answer your questions as posed: there can only be estimates.

 

It's also possible you would have difficulty accepting estimates, simply resulting in more questions/ doubt by you.

 

Finally, 'green' doesn't equate to 'economical'. What life-saving action do you know of that saves money? Ambulance? A&E services? 'Green' does mean 'change behaviour'. In the long-run, we'll see the economical advantages, and the life-saving results of changing our behaviours.

Edited February 16, 2018 by ETLerwick

[ETLerwick]

 

so that you can understand how to sort, manage, curb and otherwise support recycling isle-wide.

 

 

I think the OP was looking for a positive discussion on how we actually are going to go about recycling or producing less waste in Shetland.

Your questions are outside of that context.

Is there not another thread discussing the merits or otherwise of recycling?

Agreed. I can choose what I buy, e.g. choose non-prepacked or single use stuff, I make my opinion known through feedback if I receive unnecessarily wasteful packaging in the post etc. As customers we have got to put pressure on suppliers to reduce or prevent waste at source? How little waste can we put out in the first place?

 

Try this motto: recycle, reduce, reuse, refuse. It can work!

[Space]

 

 

so that you can understand how to sort, manage, curb and otherwise support recycling isle-wide.

 

 

I think the OP was looking for a positive discussion on how we actually are going to go about recycling or producing less waste in Shetland.

Your questions are outside of that context.

Is there not another thread discussing the merits or otherwise of recycling?

Agreed. I can choose what I buy, e.g. choose non-prepacked or single use stuff, I make my opinion known through feedback if I receive unnecessarily wasteful packaging in the post etc. As customers we have got to put pressure on suppliers to reduce or prevent waste at source? How little waste can we put out in the first place?

 

Try this motto: recycle, reduce, reuse, refuse. It can work!

 

Talking about reduction... this states an overall increase of amount of waste generated for Scotland between 2015-2016 

 

"The total quantity of household waste generated in Scotland was 2.50 million tonnes

in 2016, an increase of 30,181 tonnes (1.2%) since 2015. This is the third

consecutive year in which the quantity of household waste generated has increased,

although the household waste generated remains 107,779 tonnes (4.1%) less than

that generated in 2011."

 

However the recycling increased (and composting makes a difference)...

 

"For the 2016 calendar year, the household waste recycling rate was 45.2%, an

increase of 1.0 percentage points from the 44.2% achieved in 2015. The amount of

household waste recycled increased by 37,891 tonnes. Prior to 2014, household

waste composted that did not reach the quality standards set by PAS 100/110 was

included in the recycling figures. If such waste was included, as in the previous

method, the overall recycling rate in 2016 would have been 45.5% an increase of 5.4

percentage points from the 40.1% achieved in 2011."

 

Ref: Household waste – Summary data 2016   From: SEPA

 

Will be interesting to see year-on-year comparisons for Shetland in the future.

Edited February 16, 2018 by Space

[Guest tiodylb17]

Switch Shetland milk from plastic to class bottles would probably be quite a big investment but I think they would capture a huge bit of the market and increase demand for Shetland milk

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

@ Space - you haven't quite sussed it yet, have you?  What gets sent for recycling to recycling plants doesn't all get recycled.

[Space]

@ Space - you haven't quite sussed it yet, have you?  What gets sent for recycling to recycling plants doesn't all get recycled.

Very good How much do you think would get recycled if we sent nothing to a recycling plant?

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

 

@ Space - you haven't quite sussed it yet, have you?  What gets sent for recycling to recycling plants doesn't all get recycled.

Very good How much do you think would get recycled if we sent nothing to a recycling plant?

 

Define recycling.

See Ghostie's comments - more gets 'recycled' now because we burn it to produce heat!

 

What will be shipped away to Wales won't all get recycled.  Labels on bottles?  Not all recycled.  Bottle lids?  Not recycled.  Mastic tape on cardboard boxes - not recycled.  And so on.

[Space]

Where did I say "everything" gets recycled? But please feel free to carry on telling me what ever you think I don't already know.

There is going to be a new recycling scheme in Shetland (you can just call it a scheme if you prefer) suck it up/ take it or leave it/ complain/ whatever/ along with its many many imperfection which you mention.

 

Recycling v Incineration (not the same thing or not necessarily seen as the same thing)... this might interest you:

http://e360.yale.edu/features/incineration_versus_recycling__in_europe_a_debate_over_trash

Edited February 16, 2018 by Space

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Where did I say "everything" gets recycled? But please feel free to carry on telling me what ever you think I don't already know.

There is going to be a new recycling scheme in Shetland (you can just call it a scheme if you prefer) suck it up/ take it or leave it/ complain/ whatever/ along with its many many imperfection which you mention.

 

Recycling v Incineration (not the same thing or not necessarily seen as the same thing)... this might interest you:

http://e360.yale.edu/features/incineration_versus_recycling__in_europe_a_debate_over_trash

You asked a question, you got an answer.  I'm inclined to ignore the scheme as proposed but one can live in hope that the pilot scheme and, no doubt, the associated increased costs, will demonstrate that this isn't such a good idea as they (the SIC) were first suckered into.  Introduce a more island-proof, island-friendly, user-friendly recycling scheme and I'd be more inclined to participate.

[Space]

 

 

Where did I say "everything" gets recycled? But please feel free to carry on telling me what ever you think I don't already know.

There is going to be a new recycling scheme in Shetland (you can just call it a scheme if you prefer) suck it up/ take it or leave it/ complain/ whatever/ along with its many many imperfection which you mention.

 

Recycling v Incineration (not the same thing or not necessarily seen as the same thing)... this might interest you:

http://e360.yale.edu/features/incineration_versus_recycling__in_europe_a_debate_over_trash

You asked a question, you got an answer. I'm inclined to ignore the scheme as proposed but one can live in hope that the pilot scheme and, no doubt, the associated increased costs, will demonstrate that this isn't such a good idea as they (the SIC) were first suckered into. Introduce a more island-proof, island-friendly, user-friendly recycling scheme and I'd be more inclined to participate.

I don't get that 'they' were suckered into anything... correct if I'm wrong but I thought they had some sort of obligation to do this as the Scottish government is a signatory to the charter for household recycling/ zero waste driven thing, which is why we have a new scheme that drives things in a certain direction. Edited February 16, 2018 by Space

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

 

 

Where did I say "everything" gets recycled? But please feel free to carry on telling me what ever you think I don't already know.

There is going to be a new recycling scheme in Shetland (you can just call it a scheme if you prefer) suck it up/ take it or leave it/ complain/ whatever/ along with its many many imperfection which you mention.

 

Recycling v Incineration (not the same thing or not necessarily seen as the same thing)... this might interest you:

http://e360.yale.edu/features/incineration_versus_recycling__in_europe_a_debate_over_trash

You asked a question, you got an answer. I'm inclined to ignore the scheme as proposed but one can live in hope that the pilot scheme and, no doubt, the associated increased costs, will demonstrate that this isn't such a good idea as they (the SIC) were first suckered into. Introduce a more island-proof, island-friendly, user-friendly recycling scheme and I'd be more inclined to participate.

I don't get that 'they' were suckered into anything... correct if I'm wrong but I thought they had some sort of obligation to do this as the Scottish government is a signatory to the charter for household recycling/ zero waste driven thing, which is why we have a new scheme that drives things in a certain direction.

 

 

The legislation states that rural areas are exempt.  There is also island-proofing legislation which means what might have to apply in Mainland Scotland does not have to apply here.  In addition, they are basing their savings on getting other local authorities to use one of our facilities but despite the fact that there are not currently enough suitable facilities throughout the UK, there are no guarantees that other local authorities will use our facilities (No doubt they have existing contracts in place) plus other suitable facilities are currently being built in the UK (so they will be our competitors).  Add also into the mix that the legislation states that local authorities have an obligation to encourage recycling; but see again re exemptions.  The legislation they are relying upon is based upon an EU Directive but again, rural areas are exempt from part of the Act into which said EU Directive is included.  So in essence, they don't have to do it but they are doing it (the SIC) partially because of the forecasted savings of something like £28k.

[Space]

 

 

 

 

Where did I say "everything" gets recycled? But please feel free to carry on telling me what ever you think I don't already know.

There is going to be a new recycling scheme in Shetland (you can just call it a scheme if you prefer) suck it up/ take it or leave it/ complain/ whatever/ along with its many many imperfection which you mention.

 

Recycling v Incineration (not the same thing or not necessarily seen as the same thing)... this might interest you:

http://e360.yale.edu/features/incineration_versus_recycling__in_europe_a_debate_over_trash

You asked a question, you got an answer. I'm inclined to ignore the scheme as proposed but one can live in hope that the pilot scheme and, no doubt, the associated increased costs, will demonstrate that this isn't such a good idea as they (the SIC) were first suckered into. Introduce a more island-proof, island-friendly, user-friendly recycling scheme and I'd be more inclined to participate.

I don't get that 'they' were suckered into anything... correct if I'm wrong but I thought they had some sort of obligation to do this as the Scottish government is a signatory to the charter for household recycling/ zero waste driven thing, which is why we have a new scheme that drives things in a certain direction.

The legislation states that rural areas are exempt. There is also island-proofing legislation which means what might have to apply in Mainland Scotland does not have to apply here. In addition, they are basing their savings on getting other local authorities to use one of our facilities but despite the fact that there are not currently enough suitable facilities throughout the UK, there are no guarantees that other local authorities will use our facilities (No doubt they have existing contracts in place) plus other suitable facilities are currently being built in the UK (so they will be our competitors). Add also into the mix that the legislation states that local authorities have an obligation to encourage recycling; but see again re exemptions. The legislation they are relying upon is based upon an EU Directive but again, rural areas are exempt from part of the Act into which said EU Directive is included. So in essence, they don't have to do it but they are doing it (the SIC) partially because of the forecasted savings of something like £28k.

I get why you say they were suckered... just glanced at a Shetland News article about the council decision to go with the zws scheme. That mentioned obligations regarding recycling and new rules about waste e.g. what can't go to land-fill maybe different legislation, but seems to suggest something other than savings also pushing this? Edited February 16, 2018 by Space

[Capeesh]

Recycling definitely changes behaviour and this imho is how it will contribute the most to reducing waste.

In Shetland I've never given it a second thought, our house is a one family environmental disaster, nothing gets separated it all goes in the same black bag and dumped.

This behavior changed in a matter of days when we stayed in a self catering house in Perth for 2 weeks.

They have separate wheelie bins for different types of waste, much smaller than the ones you see in Lerwick, there is no way on earth you could fit all your waste into the general waste bin and they won't pick it up unless the lid is firmly shut. By day 4 it became painfully apparent that if we didn't start making an effort we would be creating our own rubbish mountain in the Perth suburbs.

Day 5 we were separating, washing milk cartons, buying items with less packaging etc etc

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[Space]

Capeesh - sounds like a positive experience. Do you think still being able to put things out in black bags in the usual way in Shetland after the scheme starts is a mistake. I mean it's a place where there are no clear limits (maybe there is a limit I don't know about), giving people a chance to ignore the scheme or a place for overspill. I think a sensible clear limit on 'everything' would be better to reduce waste, but maybe this is a good starting point.

Edited February 17, 2018 by Space