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alcohol sic nhs

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#21 mikeyboy

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 08:41 PM

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.



#22 Colin

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 09:58 PM

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?



#23 Guest_PJS1979_*

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:23 PM

As far as the viking festivals are concerned with boozing is it just a case of anything goes in the spirit of up helly a ?

#24 mikeyboy

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:06 PM

 

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?

 

As said you obviously have a complete misunderstanding about what it actually is and why it was brought in. Not a tax but a minimum price per unit of alcohol to try and prevent new alcohol abusers. Why don't you google it and educate yourself?



#25 George.

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:52 PM

 

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?

 

I must agree. In my opinion, it is a tax that is inflicted upon the less fortunate amongst us. Having said this, grammar should always be considered.



#26 Colin

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:18 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?

 

As said you obviously have a complete misunderstanding about what it actually is and why it was brought in. Not a tax but a minimum price per unit of alcohol to try and prevent new alcohol abusers. Why don't you google it and educate yourself?

 

I know exactly why(?) it was brought in but, unlike you, I DO NOT believe most of the rubbish that comes out of Holyrood.

 

I still maintain that it is nothing more than a tax on the less fortunate. 

It will not prevent anyone from taking a drink. 

It will probably not prevent anyone drinking to excess.

It will "punish" anyone who becomes "hooked".

 

A far simpler (and more direct) action would have been to tell producers of "rocket fuel" type drinks that they can no longer sell them in Scotland. 

Affirmitive action as opposed to "taxing" users.



#27 Ghostrider

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:40 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?

 

As said you obviously have a complete misunderstanding about what it actually is and why it was brought in. Not a tax but a minimum price per unit of alcohol to try and prevent new alcohol abusers. Why don't you google it and educate yourself?

 

 

Nah, we're very well aware what it is, and we're not about to buy what the Govt. would like us to think it is from their propaganda.

 

Its Govt. legislation that raises the retail price of certain alcoholic drinks above where they would be in a free market. Price fixing by any other name.

 

Who profits, and who loses? The end user loses through the increased cost they pay. Who gains? Everybody in the supply chain, which includes, guess who? Yup, the good old Govt. they tax the business profits of everyone in that supply chain, and receive VAT @ 17.5% on all sales.

 

Don't tell me the potential for an increase in tax revenue wasn't realised and factored in by those gray faces in stuffed suits, as I won't believe you.

 

I don't buy it that cheap higher alcohol strength drinks act as a 'gateway' for the training up of brand new alkis, its a convenient red herring scapegoat, nothing more.

 

Okay, so what if the raised price floor manages (arguably) to 'discourage' a handful of new alkis? Are you happy that everybody else has to pay through the nose for certain drinks to compensate for a very small minority who lack self control and/or don't have the ability to realise what they're doing to themselves. while at the same time lining even more the already well lined pockets of capitalists and Govt. coffers? I'm certainly not.

 

I have no intention, or wish to take 'responsibility', either as an individual, or as part of any collective with others, for any other individual. Nobody is holding anyone's nose and pouring drink down their neck, how much alcohol anyone consumes is entirely down to their own choices and own hand, and its long past time that instead of all this endless annoying nanny state crap, the Govt. cultivated and encouraged the almost lost art of personal responsibility instead.


Edited by Ghostrider, 10 July 2018 - 09:48 PM.

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#28 tirvaluk

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:55 PM

What does it matter how many off licences there are when anyone can purchase as much drink as they like on line.



#29 Ghostrider

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 10:21 PM

If the 'do-gooders' feel they must 'do something' about local alcohol consumption, they could achieve everything they're supposedly trying to, and a whole hill of beans more in two simple moves.

 

Revoke Tesco and the Co-op's drink licences......... but somehow I doubt they have the balls to even try. Picking away at the small fry, they can just about manage, but you'd not see them for dust at the thought of taking on anything bigger.


Edited by Ghostrider, 10 July 2018 - 10:22 PM.

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#30 Colin

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 10:47 PM

http://www.shetnews....vision-decision

 

Look like some people in authority just "might" be taking notice.  NHS Shetland look like they are starting to "wriggle" and various members of the Licencing Board are starting to question their "mantra".

 

Is there any hope ?



#31 Guest_PJS1979_*

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 07:11 AM

Tesco you can buy a case of cans for a tenner, never any mention of that from the NHS or Licensing board, as Ghostrider says pull there licences problem solved.

#32 Colin

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 08:02 AM

Tesco you can buy a case of cans for a tenner, never any mention of that from the NHS or Licensing board, as Ghostrider says pull there licences problem solved.

Except that pulling their licences would not "solve" anything.  It would make a "statement", but would just force the "alcohol dependent" into finding other outlets.

It would also inconvenience those who like a bottle of wine ect. with their sunday lunch..

A better option, perhaps, would be to limit the amount of shelf space that supermarkets allocate to alcohol..  They can do it with "white goods" so, why not booze ?



#33 George.

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 10:48 AM

A better option, perhaps, would be to limit the amount of shelf space that supermarkets allocate to alcohol.. 

It then must only be supermarkets that sell alcohol.


Edited by George., 11 July 2018 - 11:09 AM.


#34 mikeyboy

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:29 PM

If there are too many off licences then surely natural selection would take effect and eventually the excess would go out of business?



#35 mikeyboy

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 12:49 PM

Nah, we're very well aware what it is, and we're not about to buy what the Govt. would like us to think it is from their propaganda."

 

Who do you speak for? or is this the Royal we? You obviously are not fully aware on what minimum unit pricing is judging by your comments.

 

Its Govt. legislation that raises the retail price of certain alcoholic drinks above where they would be in a free market. Price fixing by any other name."

 

Yes that was the whole point. To stop very high alcohol drinks being sold cheaply.

 

Who profits, and who loses? The end user loses through the increased cost they pay. Who gains? Everybody in the supply chain, which includes, guess who? Yup, the good old Govt. they tax the business profits of everyone in that supply chain, and receive VAT @ 17.5% on all sales.

 

Don't tell me the potential for an increase in tax revenue wasn't realised and factored in by those gray faces in stuffed suits, as I won't believe you."

 

You do realise that VAT is not devolved don't you? the Scottish Gov do get a percentage of VAT raised in Scotland but don't have any say in how this is raised yet. More likely that less is raised in VAT as most of these high alcohol drinks have been taken off the shelf. Which was the whole point.

 

" I don't buy it that cheap higher alcohol strength drinks act as a 'gateway' for the training up of brand new alkis, its a convenient red herring scapegoat, nothing more."

 

That is your ill informed opinion.

 

"Okay, so what if the raised price floor manages (arguably) to 'discourage' a handful of new alkis? Are you happy that everybody else has to pay through the nose for certain drinks to compensate for a very small minority who lack self control and/or don't have the ability to realise what they're doing to themselves. while at the same time lining even more the already well lined pockets of capitalists and Govt. coffers? I'm certainly not."

 

The vast majority of drinkers in Scotland already pay over the minimum unit cost and so are not affected. 

 

"I have no intention, or wish to take 'responsibility', either as an individual, or as part of any collective with others, for any other individual. Nobody is holding anyone's nose and pouring drink down their neck, how much alcohol anyone consumes is entirely down to their own choices and own hand, and its long past time that instead of all this endless annoying nanny state crap, the Govt. cultivated and encouraged the almost lost art of personal responsibility instead."

 

less alcoholism means less of a strain on society.



#36 mikeyboy

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 01:26 PM

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?

 

As said you obviously have a complete misunderstanding about what it actually is and why it was brought in. Not a tax but a minimum price per unit of alcohol to try and prevent new alcohol abusers. Why don't you google it and educate yourself?

 

I know exactly why(?) it was brought in but, unlike you, I DO NOT believe most of the rubbish that comes out of Holyrood.

 

I still maintain that it is nothing more than a tax on the less fortunate. 

It will not prevent anyone from taking a drink. 

It will probably not prevent anyone drinking to excess.

It will "punish" anyone who becomes "hooked".

 

A far simpler (and more direct) action would have been to tell producers of "rocket fuel" type drinks that they can no longer sell them in Scotland. 

Affirmitive action as opposed to "taxing" users.

 

https://assets.publi...ence_review.pdf



#37 The Cleaner

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 02:07 PM

It may well be that some people are addicted to alcohol purely on a physical basis, I don't claim to know any facts on this. However from my own life experience,every addict or at least frequent heavy user of alcohol or certain drugs that I have known has used these to excess because they feel need of an escape from issues in their life that they are not coping with. Ofcourse the alcohol doesn't fix their problems but neither will limiting access to it which only treats the symptom temporarily. It's the wrong cure, it is not addressing the cause.

#38 mikeyboy

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:23 PM

https://www.drinkawa...uced-in-the-uk/



#39 Guest_PJS1979_*

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 03:45 PM

Get the tins in tonight for the big game.

#40 George.

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Posted 11 July 2018 - 05:29 PM

Get the tins in tonight for the big game.

Tins of soup?







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