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The Shetland Licensing Forum

alcohol sic nhs

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#16 Ghostrider

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 07:51 PM

 

If I want to buy a six pack of beer ill buy it regardless of how many places are selling it , if I decide to go for a pint or two its nice to have a choice for something new and refreshing like recent openings on commercial street , why should the public be forced to use the same old places to suit the corrupt licensing board ?

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

 

 

Yes, and the pricing of tobacco off the chart model has worked so well, hasn't it.......At long years ago creating a massive black market, which may well still be growing, and from which neithe rlegit business nor the government earns one penny. Full of bootleg Chinese and Middle Eastern 'look-a-like' crap made from the cheapest poorest quality materials, with who knows what nasties heaped in as filler, and subject to no quality control or regulation whatsoever.

 

Yet, they never learn, hiking the cost higher and higher year on year.

 

It at least allows them to spout off about 'how well their policies and measures are working, as tobacco comsumption is falling......' Which is hardly surprising when its just the legit taxed sales they count, and the black market portion is ignored. It may well have increased a proportionate amount to swallow up the reduction in legit taxed sales, it may well have increased more than that. No-one can know, and in any case, its in the Government's interests to pretend the black market doesn't exist to any relevant level, as if they acknowledged it, they'd be admitting by default that their polices and measures definitely were not working, and had somewhat spectacularly backfired, plus that they were crap at enforcing their own legisation.

 

If they repeat the formula with alcohol sales, it is only a matter of time before it becomes worthwhile for the clock to be turned back a few centuries, and boats start slipping in to remote voes to unload cases of cheap hooch again.

 

I haven't heard, but I would be very surprised if alcohol outlets immediately south of Hardian's Wall haven't noticed an increase in sales since Scotland introuduced minimum pricing, most of it due to folk nipping down from immediately north of Hadrian's for it and taking it back home. So, it may well have already started albeit in a small way.


Edited by Ghostrider, 08 July 2018 - 07:54 PM.


#17 George.

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 06:01 AM

At long years ago creating a massive black market, which may well still be growing, and from which neithe rlegit business nor the government earns one penny. 

That's shocking, the government not making money. How much worse can it get?


Edited by George., 09 July 2018 - 06:03 AM.


#18 tooney1

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 06:56 AM

The licensing board seems to be oblivious to the amount of home delivered wine subscriptions in Shetland. Cheap, regular, can receive whether sober or not without leaving the house. No joined up thinking…

#19 Guest_PJS1979_*

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 08:01 AM

I bought my first pack of beer from Lerwicks latest off licence last night n drank the lot, barely touched the sides lol

Edited by PJS1979, 09 July 2018 - 08:02 AM.


#20 George.

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 03:46 PM

I bought my first pack of beer from Lerwicks latest off licence last night n drank the lot, barely touched the sides lol

I bought my last from somewhere else. After all, the price counts.


Edited by George., 09 July 2018 - 03:49 PM.


#21 mikeyboy

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 08:41 PM

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.



#22 Colin

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Posted 09 July 2018 - 09:58 PM

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?



#23 Guest_PJS1979_*

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:23 PM

As far as the viking festivals are concerned with boozing is it just a case of anything goes in the spirit of up helly a ?

#24 mikeyboy

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:06 PM

 

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?

 

As said you obviously have a complete misunderstanding about what it actually is and why it was brought in. Not a tax but a minimum price per unit of alcohol to try and prevent new alcohol abusers. Why don't you google it and educate yourself?



#25 George.

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:52 PM

 

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?

 

I must agree. In my opinion, it is a tax that is inflicted upon the less fortunate amongst us. Having said this, grammar should always be considered.



#26 Colin

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:18 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?

 

As said you obviously have a complete misunderstanding about what it actually is and why it was brought in. Not a tax but a minimum price per unit of alcohol to try and prevent new alcohol abusers. Why don't you google it and educate yourself?

 

I know exactly why(?) it was brought in but, unlike you, I DO NOT believe most of the rubbish that comes out of Holyrood.

 

I still maintain that it is nothing more than a tax on the less fortunate. 

It will not prevent anyone from taking a drink. 

It will probably not prevent anyone drinking to excess.

It will "punish" anyone who becomes "hooked".

 

A far simpler (and more direct) action would have been to tell producers of "rocket fuel" type drinks that they can no longer sell them in Scotland. 

Affirmitive action as opposed to "taxing" users.



#27 Ghostrider

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:40 PM

 

 

 

 

 

Trouble is that now they have got away with  intruducing "Minimum Alcohol Pricing", they will push to make a can of lager £10 (or something equally silly) just the way they have done with tobacco because "it's for your own good"....

Minimum alcohol pricing was brought in by Holyrood. Changes in tobacco laws were made by Westminster, were they not?

 

Whoever brought in the "laws" is irrelevant.  My point was to illustrate the "method" used.

 

Tobacco prices rise at a silly rate every time there is a budget.  Look out for alcohol to do  the same.

 

 

 

You seem to have a misunderstanding about what minimum unit pricing actually is.

 

It's a tax on the less fortunate members of society who depend on "rocket fuel" to get through the day..  What's to misunderstand ?

 

As said you obviously have a complete misunderstanding about what it actually is and why it was brought in. Not a tax but a minimum price per unit of alcohol to try and prevent new alcohol abusers. Why don't you google it and educate yourself?

 

 

Nah, we're very well aware what it is, and we're not about to buy what the Govt. would like us to think it is from their propaganda.

 

Its Govt. legislation that raises the retail price of certain alcoholic drinks above where they would be in a free market. Price fixing by any other name.

 

Who profits, and who loses? The end user loses through the increased cost they pay. Who gains? Everybody in the supply chain, which includes, guess who? Yup, the good old Govt. they tax the business profits of everyone in that supply chain, and receive VAT @ 17.5% on all sales.

 

Don't tell me the potential for an increase in tax revenue wasn't realised and factored in by those gray faces in stuffed suits, as I won't believe you.

 

I don't buy it that cheap higher alcohol strength drinks act as a 'gateway' for the training up of brand new alkis, its a convenient red herring scapegoat, nothing more.

 

Okay, so what if the raised price floor manages (arguably) to 'discourage' a handful of new alkis? Are you happy that everybody else has to pay through the nose for certain drinks to compensate for a very small minority who lack self control and/or don't have the ability to realise what they're doing to themselves. while at the same time lining even more the already well lined pockets of capitalists and Govt. coffers? I'm certainly not.

 

I have no intention, or wish to take 'responsibility', either as an individual, or as part of any collective with others, for any other individual. Nobody is holding anyone's nose and pouring drink down their neck, how much alcohol anyone consumes is entirely down to their own choices and own hand, and its long past time that instead of all this endless annoying nanny state crap, the Govt. cultivated and encouraged the almost lost art of personal responsibility instead.


Edited by Ghostrider, 10 July 2018 - 09:48 PM.

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#28 tirvaluk

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 09:55 PM

What does it matter how many off licences there are when anyone can purchase as much drink as they like on line.



#29 Ghostrider

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 10:21 PM

If the 'do-gooders' feel they must 'do something' about local alcohol consumption, they could achieve everything they're supposedly trying to, and a whole hill of beans more in two simple moves.

 

Revoke Tesco and the Co-op's drink licences......... but somehow I doubt they have the balls to even try. Picking away at the small fry, they can just about manage, but you'd not see them for dust at the thought of taking on anything bigger.


Edited by Ghostrider, 10 July 2018 - 10:22 PM.

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#30 Colin

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 10:47 PM

http://www.shetnews....vision-decision

 

Look like some people in authority just "might" be taking notice.  NHS Shetland look like they are starting to "wriggle" and various members of the Licencing Board are starting to question their "mantra".

 

Is there any hope ?







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