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Shetland MRI Scanner


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#1 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 01:49 PM

An appeal has been launched for an MRI scanner (freestanding) to be located outside GBH.

 

Is it right that the public should have to pay for this?

 

Format fail ... trying to add a poll to this.

1.  Who should pay for an MRI scanner:-

 

- NHS Shetland

- NHS Scotland

- Private donations

 

 

2.  Should the MRI scanner be:-

 

- Freestanding/mobile (on a truck)

- Static located within a building

 

3.  Should NHS Shetland look at other options:-

 

- Rent/lease at certain times of the year to meet demand?
- Buy a second-hand scanner

- Insist NHS Grampian provide an MRI scanner to be located at GBH.

 

 

 


Edited by Suffererof1crankymofo, 07 July 2018 - 01:54 PM.


#2 playlist

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 03:04 PM

1.  NHS SHETLAND OR NHS SCOTLAND.

2.  STATIC LOCATED WITHIN GBH HOSPITAL.

3.  BUY OUTRIGHT.

 

 

With the limited space within the mobile MRI scanning trailers this would only be available for able bodied people, those who are not mobile would still have to travel South, so one located within a building would be more sensible if they are looking at this to save money in patients travelling.  Anyone who has had an MRI scan in hospital south and in the mobile trailer south will know.

 

NHS Shetland stating they are going to buy a mobile scanner shows that they have not thought this through properly and only helping able bodied people and not those who really would benefit from this scanner in Shetland who will still have to travel south eg by air ambulance.


Edited by playlist, 07 July 2018 - 03:18 PM.

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#3 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 03:30 PM

There's also the cost factor.  A quick Google revealed that another NHS Trust recently bought an MRI scanner for £750,000 through donations, and separately, the cost quoted to hire one was £3,350 for a 12 hour day with two operatives, thus not requiring additional staff and without ongoing maintenance costs/software upgrades, etc.  That's not cheap, but when you factor in that at present 675 (I think) patients per annum require MRI scans down south, how many of those were emergency scans or non-urgent 'routine'?  In other words, I'm wondering what the cost savings/implications would be if NHS Shetland arranged for an MRI scanner to be in Shetland say every two months for three days, whether that would be a realistic workable solution?

Afterthought:  What's also perhaps needed is consultants, both those based here and those visiting who hold clinics here, to insist that Shetland is provided with an MRI scanner.


Edited by Suffererof1crankymofo, 07 July 2018 - 03:35 PM.


#4 playlist

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:19 PM

^ To have a mobile scanner visiting for a few days every two months - wouldn't say it would save much money, guess would not save any at all for that matter as it is quite large and not accessible for everyone, the cost implications of it travelling by ferry both ways each time, the staff required and their ferry travel and accommodation and eating expenses whilst in shetland for the staff. 

Would be best to have an mri scanner based inside Gilbert Bain Hospital or another building in Shetland, with staff in Shetland, or then keep it as it is with patients travelling south as don't really see that it will save money with the expense of buying it, expenses to run it, upkeep it, and staff to run it, especially so when they are only trying to save money with the able bodied who can walk, as everyone else it appears are being fully discriminated against by NHS Shetland as they will not be able to have an MRI scan in the mobile trailer and so would not be able to have one in Shetland anyway with this proposal from NHS Shetland, so I would choose to keep it as it is with patients travelling south.

 

Quite weird that they have not thought this all through or have the managers involved never had an MRI scan in hospital and in mobile trailer to know the full facts and not looked into the implications of who it will help and who it will not and so in not doing so fully discriminating certain patients.



#5 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:29 PM

There's also the travel budget; no doubt if NHS Shetland save on their annual travel costs, then the funds given will decrease each year as the travel costs go down, so would that equate to NHS Scotland being the ones actually saving and not NHS Shetland?


Edited by Suffererof1crankymofo, 07 July 2018 - 04:29 PM.


#6 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 04:40 PM

You can get freestanding MRI units with lifts (spot the brolly):-

https://www.alliance...-mobile-journey

 

https://www.alamy.co...-103520521.html

 

Wouldn't fancy being on a trolley on a wet, windy day ...

 

Never mind, less room to park.  



#7 playlist

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 05:21 PM

See the lift to get in, no room to swing a cat inside though and require to be mobile in mobile scanning trailer as stated.


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#8 Acid

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 06:53 PM

https://www.mixcloud...scanner-appeal/



#9 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 07:22 PM

Wow, and they admit they did NOT ask NHS Scotland for the funds.



#10 playlist

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Posted 07 July 2018 - 09:02 PM

If having patients funding it they should have it based inside the hospital and not in trailer where hoists cannot be as not enough space.  Not surprised they did not ask for funding from the Government at all.

 

Do you think shetland patients should have to fund it?

Do you think one should be based in Shetland?  

Do you think it should be based within the hospital or outside in a trailer where you are in a cramped space to get into room and get changed there and them jump onto the scanner bed, hear the wind outside at where your head is in mobile unit and hear traffic passing by, etc.


Edited by playlist, 07 July 2018 - 09:12 PM.


#11 Ghostrider

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:00 AM

An MRI would be a good asset, there's no dispute on that, but nothing about this pea brained scheme is acceptable for obtaining one.

 

The NHS was sold 70 years ago on the premise that people pay the tax, and in return they would get the health care they needed, where they needed it from the cradle to the grave. We've paid, they're not delivering, they're breaking the contract, not us. Its not our problem that either the funds raised aren't adequate to do the job and/or their allocation isn't properly managed, thats their problem.

 

We've paid once, they're trying to scam us in to paying a second time for the same thing, using more than a little extremely emotive emotional blackmail. Doesn't NHS Shetland have an anti-bulying policy? They're attempting to bully the population of Shetland the way they're going about this.

 

If an individual or group decides of their own initiative that they wish to raise funds to provide the NHS with equipment, that's fine, and the best of luck to them. This is NOT that, this is NHS Shetland conceiving and pushing hard with the begging bowl, just because they have weak and ineffectual management who've not got the balls to lobby, harrass and publically shame NHS Scotland in to stumping up.

 

£2 Million is a ridiculous sum for all we're going to be getting. A bog basic limited use and functionality machine, stuck in an artic trailer, shunted up next to a building, redneck trailer tarsh park stylee.....That's going to have to either see some existing building demolished or 4-6 car parking spaces lost to it, in a carpark that's already desperatey overcrowded.....

 

If we're going to be talking this kind of silly money, can't we at least aspire to a machine with more modern functionality, and install it in a shed on wherever they're planning to park this, so that its available 24/7/365. And not dependent on whether it isn't a SE'er that makes using the steps in to it less than safe for staff, never mind laregly impossible to use the lift to get wheelchair or stretcher patients in it, or that the gusts off the Staney Hill with a westerly aren't strong enough that the shock waves jar the images it takes.


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#12 PJS1979

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 09:27 AM

I think its taking the piss asking the public to pay for this.


Edited by PJS1979, 08 July 2018 - 09:27 AM.

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#13 George.

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 10:49 AM

I think its taking the piss asking the public to pay for this.

 

Who else will pay for it?



#14 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 01:43 PM

 

I think its taking the piss asking the public to pay for this.

 

Who else will pay for it?

 

Well, wouldn't it be marvellous for the Scot. Gov. to have in place a health and social care plan that was actually realistic and actually deliverable instead of the fudged one currently in place, yanno, like one that actually covered buying what these days is basic diagnostic equipment?  Or better still, one that had funding for not just bog standard MRI scanners but the new ones that could cope with anyone who was claustrophobic (the fully open ones whereby you can lie down as if you were sorta in a 'sandwich') or the even newer super duper ones where you can stand up/sit down in them.  After all, the first MRI scanner was designed in Aberdeen and one would have thought that the Scots would want to ensure that given they were heavily involved in their invention in the first place, that every single Scottish health board/trusts' patients would have easy access, free at the point of need, to an MRI scanner.  But no, let's go along with the new mantra of 'free at the point of delivery', let's invent super hospitals, let's make patients suffer in pain and lose money to local economies by having a health service which fails to deliver the basics.

IF it takes two years to raise money for this thing, there's a possibility that the current lot won't even be in power at Holyrood, plus we'll be out of the EU.  There might be a currently different funding structure in place.  So whilst I can understand about how leasing would be problematic due to the settling gases, what is shocking is that they decided NOT to even ask NHS Scotland for the money for it.  That's unforgiveable.  They should have asked, and kept asking; ask for all what is required to deliver first class healthcare within Shetland instead of having such a 'can't do, won't do' attitude.

So who else will pay for it?  The public, but VIA the taxes aka NHS Scotland.  It is scandalous that at the time of the NHS 70th anniversary, situations like this are occurring.



#15 PJS1979

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:09 PM

Id quite happily waive my right to health care in return for the amount i contribute from my wages.

#16 George.

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:14 PM

 

So who else will pay for it?  The public, but VIA the taxes aka NHS Scotland.  It is scandalous that at the time of the NHS 70th anniversary, situations like this are occurring.

Reminds me of Westminster. We all pay them, but of course that's Joe Public at it again.



#17 George.

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 02:17 PM

Id quite happily waive my right to health care in return for the amount i contribute from my wages.

I suppose that relates directly to your standard of health.



#18 paulb

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 04:14 PM

until his health goes then it would be a different matter.  nhs shetland are doing what the london hospitals have been doing for years. for example guys gets 3 million a year. 



#19 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 04:26 PM

@ paulb - I wasn't aware that NHS Shetland was a PFI like some of the London hospitals are!  Besides, just because other hospitals are relying upon charity doesn't make it right.  IMO, no one can complain about privatisation of the NHS because private donations made by the public are just that, a form of privatisation.  There comes a time when the public and the medical professionals should say 'enough is enough' and take action to get the powers that be to fund essential items, etc.



#20 Ghostrider

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Posted 08 July 2018 - 05:19 PM

until his health goes then it would be a different matter.  nhs shetland are doing what the london hospitals have been doing for years. for example guys gets 3 million a year. 

 

The probem is NI contributions are compulsory and only go to one place, the public does not have any choice in the matter.

 

Only those with money to burn, or those who have reached a point of impossible desperation or frustration are going to go private and pay out a second time for what they've already supposedly paid for.

 

I don't have any real problem with NI contributions being compulsory, what I do very strongly object to is that when you pay them you're forced to pay them ONLY in to the NHS kitty, and are denied the right to choose to pay them to some other health care provider.

 

If folk had that choice, you'd soon see who was providing the most suitable and value for money service, as that's where most would choose to subscribe to, and unfortunately from personal experience I'm strongly persuaded that the NHS would be bottom of the majority of people's list.

 

No Government will ever give the public the choice of which heath care provider their NI Contributions go to, for like the Television Licence and the BBC, they know fine well that if folk have that choice so few would subscribe to the NHS or BBC neither could survive.

 

Its a shame, as there's a lot good in the NHS, generally speaking facilities, equipment, staff and expertise isn't all that bad at all, but that makes no odds, as long as the NHS's strongest point is the morass of mismanagement and maladministration it is. No amount of the best of people, infrastructure and knowledge by those getting their hands dirty every day, can begin to compensate for those making key decision and those overseeing day to day management are people who by all appearances couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery even if they hired in experts in the field to do it for them.

 

As for what London may or may not be doing, that's totally irrelevant. To quote a line from a song, 'Everyone else is doing it, so why the hell should I?'

 

Blindly and unquestionly following where others are doing is lemming behaviour..... If a plan has merit and robustness, it will sell itself in its own right and withstand any critical examination wherever and whenever it is proposed. You can con some of the people some of the time.....So its only wise to make sure you're not simply following some of those who've already been conned when you consider joining a bandwagon, rather than just tagging along in the assumption people you don't know or know their reasons for doing what they're doing, are somehow 'wiser than you'.


Edited by Ghostrider, 08 July 2018 - 05:23 PM.