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General Election 2019

politics libdem s.n.p westminster tory

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99 replies to this topic

#16 Evil Inky

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Posted 13 November 2019 - 09:55 PM

^^What do you believe to be the Scottish position on rejoining the E.U.?

I imagine we'll have more chance of rejoining the EU as an independent country compared to remaining part of the UK


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#17 Wheelsup

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 12:02 AM

An independent Scotland, would possibly hold a referendum on joining the EU. If joining the EU's conditions include adoption of the Euro, and having a hard border with England. Then  I suspect that many might decide its better to remain in a trading zone with rUK. 

That's assuming the EU would eventually agree to accept Scotland in any case.



#18 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 04:19 AM

As long as Scotland is in the UK the chances are the vast majority of the Scottish electorate will have to put up with a Government they didn't vote for and endure being dragged out of the EU against their will.

 

As long as Shetland is in Scotland the Shetland electorate will have to put up with a Scottish Government we didn't vote for...........and when the Scottish Government acknowledges that Shetland (and Orkney) are as badly treated in that administration as Scotland is treated by Westminster's, I'll start having a hint of sympathy for Scotland. As long as they practice the hypocrisy that's existed to date, they can go spin on it as far as their bleating about Westminster is concerned.


Edited by Ghostrider, 14 November 2019 - 04:19 AM.


#19 Capeesh

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 06:11 AM

^^I agree, as long as Scotland remains in the UK putting up with governments and policies it doesn't want is something they'll just have to swallow, no sympathy from me either.

#20 Colin

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 08:21 AM

Yes, BUT according to the SNP, The majority of Scottish voters voted "Remain" which says to me that the SNP have a HUGE problem if Independence also means (according to Brussels) that Scotland has to leave the EU.

Wonder how they will "dress that up" if they get their way ?


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#21 Evil Inky

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 12:58 PM

Yes, BUT according to the SNP, The majority of Scottish voters voted "Remain" which says to me that the SNP have a HUGE problem if Independence also means (according to Brussels) that Scotland has to leave the EU.

Wonder how they will "dress that up" if they get their way ?

But Scotland is going to be leaving the EU anyway: the above is only going to be a problem in the event a Libdem-SNP coalition form the next government and cancel Brexit. Which is highly unlikely.



#22 Ghostrider

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 04:00 PM

Yes, BUT according to the SNP, The majority of Scottish voters voted "Remain" which says to me that the SNP have a HUGE problem if Independence also means (according to Brussels) that Scotland has to leave the EU.

Wonder how they will "dress that up" if they get their way ?

 

Another of the SNP's 'cherry picked' selective 'claims'.....

 

The majority of Scottish voters voted to 'Remain' in the EU when the question was, 'Should the UK Leave/Remain in the EU', and that's fine. Taking that outcome and applying it to the related, but different question, 'Should an independent Scotland be a member of the EU' is not fine, as while the the considerations to be taken in to account will have similarities, they are very far from being the same. Some level of correlation between the majority expressed opinion for the former question and the opinion which may be expressed for the latter would be unsurprising, but to simply take the outcome of the former question and apply it to the latter question is disingenuous at best.

 

I agree with your underlying point though......a party such as the SNP which has a stated policy of seeking independence from a union of three similar countries, but to remain/(re)join a union of 26 countries, almost all of whom are quite different, has a significant credibility problem.



#23 Capeesh

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 06:09 PM

^^ What's incredible to me is people comparing apples to oranges when it comes to the UK and EU. To try and suggest the current 27 member states of the EU aren't independent countries is ridiculous.
The only truly independent countries are rogue states like North Korea, every other country on Earth share a small proportion of their sovereignty with others for their own benefit.
Scotland in the UK is little more than a region, most of our decisions are being made by a government we didn't vote for. Completely different from EU members like Germany, France, Ireland Denmark etc.
Even tiny EU members like Malta get the government and policies they vote for.

Edited by Capeesh, 14 November 2019 - 06:30 PM.


#24 Suffererof1crankymofo

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 08:34 PM

What's ridiculous is some people trying to make out that UK policies and laws aren't affected by the EU whatsoever; perhaps one day they'll open their eyes.  Being dictated to by the EU as to what tax is to be levelled sure as hell makes us 100% independent NOT.


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#25 Colin

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 08:36 PM

^^ What's incredible to me is people comparing apples to oranges when it comes to the UK and EU. To try and suggest the current 27 member states of the EU aren't independent countries is ridiculous.
The only truly independent countries are rogue states like North Korea, every other country on Earth share a small proportion of their sovereignty with others for their own benefit.
Scotland in the UK is little more than a region, most of our decisions are being made by a government we didn't vote for. Completely different from EU members like Germany, France, Ireland Denmark etc.
Even tiny EU members like Malta get the government and policies they vote for.

I thought that the United Kingdom was called "Great Britain" for a reason.

Are you seriously suggesting that countries like Germany, France, Spain and everywhere else in the world do not have "regions" ? 

Bet that the residents of Saxony, Brittany, and what about the Basques amongst others might take issue with that. 


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#26 Capeesh

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 09:50 PM

^^Nope, I'm saying Scotland in the UK is not the same as France, Germany or Spain in the EU. The UK is a unitary state with very limited devolution, the EU on the other hand is a union of independent nations.
It was a reply to those who say if Scotland became independent it would be giving that independence up again by joining the EU.

Edited by Capeesh, 14 November 2019 - 10:01 PM.


#27 Wheelsup

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Posted 14 November 2019 - 11:34 PM

Of course an independent Scottish Government, might find it difficult to get popular support within its membership for joining the EU. Maybe the election will clarify that.



#28 Ghostrider

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 01:13 AM

It was a reply to those who say if Scotland became independent it would be giving that independence up again by joining the EU.

 

You can't deny though that they would be giving up to their newly won independence from Westminster in many spheres and be handing it over to Brussels in the event of an independent Scotland being an EU member. CFP, CAP, fiscal constraints etc. I think its fair to say your version of Scottish Independence which includes EU membership could only be 'generously' described as 'Independence Lite', and likely to get liter and liter as time passes......

 

With the current proposals for the future of the EU arguably the only way they are likely to come to fruition successfully and workably is for the EU to become a United States of Europe (by whatever name they see fit to give it) with one 'national capital' (probably Brussels unless someone throws their toys out of the pram.....then you might end up with Berlin, Paris or anyplace......), and each and every member nation effectively demoted to a 'state', with all the 'independence' and legislative power of the state legislature of the likes of California, Texas, Idaho et al.....

 

Much as left wing Europe and the left in this country apparently despise Trumpland and everything about it, the EU is slowly but steadily putting in place a very similar governmental structure to the one which created and sustains Trumpland.



#29 Ghostrider

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 01:22 AM

Of course an independent Scottish Government, might find it difficult to get popular support within its membership for joining the EU. Maybe the election will clarify that.

 

They might wish to consider the prospect of Checkpoint Charlie on the A1 and armed patrols along Hadrian's Wall when deciding who get a vote..



#30 Capeesh

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Posted 15 November 2019 - 06:34 AM

I know Brexit will dominate this election but what about the other things?
Ever since the Libdem/Tory coalition there's been a huge increase in food banks.
Why are there families with children in Shetland having to rely on charity to feed themselves?
After the LibDems/Tories sold of the Post Office is there anything left in this country apart from the NHS to flog to the highest bidder?
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