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POLICE STATE.


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#1 tarsus

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 12:42 PM

I find it disturbing that some police officers etc. seem keen to overstep their authority. I hope that when this is over the extra police powers are rescinded. It is not hard to see how a police state can come into being. It is said that we are one of the most-watched populations already, Cameras at every street corner, etc. Look at history, Stasi and other organizations, You wake up one morning to a knock on the door and find the police there, your neighbour has reported you. The report of bus drivers taxi drivers springs to mind.


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#2 NullVoid

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 03:30 PM

I find it disturbing that some police officers etc. seem keen to overstep their authority. I hope that when this is over the extra police powers are rescinded. It is not hard to see how a police state can come into being. It is said that we are one of the most-watched populations already, Cameras at every street corner, etc. Look at history, Stasi and other organizations, You wake up one morning to a knock on the door and find the police there, your neighbour has reported you. The report of bus drivers taxi drivers springs to mind.

 

You are only NOW noticing this?

Fabians have infected most institutions and those who would oppose them are too busy fighting each other over petty Left right issues.

Have you heard of Gesellschaft zur Rechtlichen und Humanitären Unterstützung (GRH)
that's German for: Society for Legal and Humanitarian Assistance

 

Do you know what the "Society for Legal and Humanitarian Assistance"

Its an organization of Ex-Stasi members and most sinister organizations who promote the agenda have similar names.

We are told to parrot empty platitudes of tolerance and fluffy cuddly bunnies or however they sugar coat it so they can gift us a "Trojan horse" to decorate our "City of Troy"

 

We have Comedians being arrested because he made a video where his girlfriends dog was trained to act like a nazi   https://en.wikinews....joke_on_YouTube

 

The guy was dragged through the courts for a very long time during which he would not have been able to work to earn money while having to pay expensive legal bills

 

and he was found guilty of breaking the law but it doesnt stop at laws they wrote down the police now have the precedent to pursue unwritten rules

 

have you heard of a "Non-Crime Hate incident"

 

something that is by the authorities own admission is NOT a crime

https://www.telegrap...ccused-getting/

 

They can also call to check your thinking

https://www.telegrap...ender-limerick/

 

So this is how liberty dies… with thunderous applause

 

If you have ever head anybody say they believe in free speech BUT...

You can identify that person as not believing in free speech because you dont need free speech to protect ideas that are already legal to state.

 

that like saying north Korea has free speech as long as you don't criticize its Aristocracy, State ideology, Foreign or domestic policy and things Kim Jong Un doesn't want you to discuss.

 

If you believe in free speech you would have an opinion along this line

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP2S1-A_FXM


Edited by NullVoid, 10 April 2020 - 03:31 PM.

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#3 tarsus

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 04:04 PM

NullVoid, No I have not just noticed it. I have been watching the situation build up for over 70 years and it is getting worse but everybody is scared to say anything in case they are accused of something. There are a lot of good police officers about and I believe that they are in the majority but it is the whole system that is corrupt. We live in a dictatorship but we have been convinced that we live in a democracy. If it was a democracy there would not be such a difference between the rich and the poor.



#4 NullVoid

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 04:23 PM

NullVoid, No I have not just noticed it. I have been watching the situation build up for over 70 years and it is getting worse but everybody is scared to say anything in case they are accused of something.

 

They will invoke Godwins Law because it delivers results

How did the soviet union deal with criticism?

 

    Czech: A vy zase bijete černochy! ("And, in turn, you beat up blacks!")
    Hungarian: Amerikában (pedig) verik a négereket ("And in America, they beat up *******")
    Polish: A u was Murzynów biją! ("And at your place, they beat up *******")
    Romanian: Da, dar voi linșați negrii! ("Yes, but you are lynching *******")
    Bulgarian: Да, а вие биете негрите! ("Yes, but you are beating up *******")

 

This works because the average person is not hateful but will go to absurd lengths to disprove such an accusation.

Dont go for the ball go for the player.

 

 

https://archive.org/...ube-qxunoh82KQg

 

 

We live in a dictatorship but we have been convinced that we live in a democracy. If it was a democracy there would not be such a difference between the rich and the poor.

 

democracy is a meaningless word

 

Spreading "Freedom and Democracy" is used as a sarcastic euphemism for unwarranted War.

Similar story with sarcastic use of  "Cultural enrichment" and "is an X Of Peace"

 

Most dog attacks are from pitbuls

"The pitbull is the dog of peace"

 

Trouble is its like this in most countries there isn't much choice to defect to.

People have replaced their religion with politics or one became the other.

 

https://archive.org/...ube-qxunoh82KQg

https://www.unqualif...-hypothesis-in/

 

We are experiencing the most dangerous revolution in world history: the revolution of the State against man. We are experiencing the worst idolatry of all time: the deification of the state.
-Richard N. Coudenhove-Kalergi

Funnily enough the most ardent supporters of his ideas are the worst offenders

 

Though they see the Kalergi plan as a tool to destroy the Four Olds

Old Customs, Old Culture, Old Habits, and Old Ideas

https://en.wikipedia.../wiki/Four_Olds

To kill these and remake society in their image



#5 tarsus

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 05:17 PM

I also hope that when this is over that the public look favorably to the police and are not influenced by the actions of a few zealous officers as the police rely on us as much as we rely on them. Society would not be a nice place to live in without a police force and I do think that our police are the best in the world. 



#6 Claadehol

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 07:03 PM

Well Tarsus why are you so concerned about cameras on street corners? That's something that has unfortunately become necessary over the years.

Those cameras in our cities are responsible for a hell of a lot of crime being stopped and the perpetrators  being arrested. They also allow police to track the direction of criminals fleeing the scene.

Personally I don't give a damn if cameras are watching me buy my underpants in Marks and Spencers because I will have paid for them when I leave the shop. It won't bother me when I am strolling down the street either because I won't be mugging old ladies or breaking shop windows after I've had a pint or two.

This is nothing like a police state, you only have to travel abroad a lot to realise that, and find it so pleasant to be back home, especially to Shetland.

There's plenty of people that have made their home here since the oil came ashore, and many of them love it here. But they don't love Shetland because of the cameras following their every move in Glasgow or Dundee, but because of the crime that makes these cameras necessary. 

As for the negative comments regarding the police, perhaps you need to consider the problems the police face every day all across the UK. They are the ones who have to face the nutters, hardened criminals, and drunken idiots on a regular basis, and have to daily face the abuse and the violence.

They are the ones who are chasing the car thieves that the courts release with a slap on the wrists and who they are chasing the next weekend. No wonder they get more than a little cheesed off with the legal system sometimes, and certain segments of the UK population too.

So bring on the cameras, it would be a good idea to put a good few in Lerwick too to nail these people who make a career out of criminal activities. 

Maybe we could ship some of them out to face cameras elsewhere.

 


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#7 Sukibind

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 09:31 PM

I have no problem with cctv, I think it plays a very important part in solving violent crime. Lets face it, no one is going to watch hours of boring footage unless they hope to see a crime being committed. However, I do object to police officers being ‘over zealous’ or just plain bossy when there is no need. Someone sitting miles from anyone on a beach, eating a sandwich... hardly likely to be a danger. Also walking your dog in the middle of nowhere.. and....there is a police drone ready to beam footage of your misdemeanour to the world.. I appreciate in any organisation that you will have the intolerant few who relish the power to move people on, but if the police hope to retain the goodwill of the people they have to stop the silly shows of power. The majority of people are observing the social distancing rules, the police should concentrate on those that dont, and stop bothering folks who are practicing isolation even if it is on a beach whilst eating a sandwich.


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#8 Claadehol

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Posted 10 April 2020 - 11:58 PM

That sounds ok and perfectly rational Sukibind, but where do you draw the line here?  A sunny day and a few people exercising that right to socialise on the beach, keeping their distance, then a few more then a few more. At what point as the crowd gathers do you draw the line. If you allow some then others will follow, surely you can see what will happen. Ok the police might be heavy handed in some situations but their job aint easy here, and there's every chance that the people they're dealing with here aint too cooperative either. If you allow a couple to enjoy the beach, or the park, then plenty of others will demand the same right. Only way to stop the escalation is to stop it before it starts.



#9 Ghostrider

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 05:24 AM

^ That's how any why a lot of folk no longer have any great deal of trust in, or goodwill towards the Police. The mindset of what *might* happen, and *preventing* it before it does.

 

They used to say 'You can't be hung for thinking it', but these days you can be hung if you might do it, that's an exceedingly thin and faint line that exists between the two........

 

Its not the Police fault of course, its Governments' fault for enacting the statutes which they are then expected to 'enforce'......but then again, folk enlist in the service knowing full well the stupidity and inappropriate crap they'll be expected to normailse and legitimise, just the same as a squaddie knows fine well they're signing up to kill people, and be killed themselves. If either is too bothered by what the job entails, they can change career.

 

You draw the line, in this instance, where folk flaunt or ignore instruction. You can have a goodish number of folk on even a relatively smallish beach with no one of them needing to be within 6 feet of another. If somebody refuses to observe the 6 foot gap, by all means escort them off the beach, there's a goodish argument to be made that anybody getting that close to another random person on a beach is a violation of personal space at any time, let alone in the current circumstances.

 

Let folk who behave responsibly get a bit of fresh air and exercise where its relatively safe to do so. The alternatives are all worse, they'll either be wading through folk's parks among grazing livestock, spooking them at the worse time of year possible to do so. Will struggle to be able to keep the 6 foot gap on narrow streets (the narrowest bits of Commercial St. aren't much over 12 ft. if they are that much - Who's standing there making sure only one person at a time passes through, or that when two do they keep to opposites sides.....), or have to walk in the roadway, potentially among traffic, where pavements are less than 6 ft wide and someone else is coming in the opposite direction.

 

Effectively banning everybody from beaches etc, which is what it seems to be ending up as on the ground, regardless what it started out as from whoever issued the edict, is taking a sledge hammer to crack a nut.

 

Identify and remove anyone that is a 'problem' by all means, but banning the vast majority just because of the one or two dicks who *might* turn up as well is Primary School teacher/pupil mentality. 'The whole class must yadda yadda......or, NOBODY will be allowed their colouring books and crayons today!

 

Everybody over 18 is supposed to be a mature responsible adult after all, there will always be the few who refuse to be and need 'intervention' so as not spoil it for the vast majority, but when everybody is treated like an under 18 just because one or two may refuse to behave like an over 18 if they're treated like an over 18, its no wonder folks' hackles start to rise pretty quick.

 

"You lot can't be trusted to do anything right......" is an accusation that is never going to have a happy ending.


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#10 Ghostrider

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 05:53 AM

While we're here, and on the subject of Governments......

 

 

Remember a few years back the SCT stopped all Pensioner/Disabled Christmas Bonus Grants, even to those on low incomes. The excuse given was that the Government wouldn't/couldn't provide verification of those who were eligible.

 

The other day Tesco sent round an email bragging about how they were 'going the extra mile' to ensure their 'isolated and vulnerable' customers were catered for at the moment. According to them, the Government had supplied them with a list of potentially 'isolated and vulnerable' individuals and Tesco was checking them against their known customers so that they could ensure they were able to access adequate delivery slots/click & collect etc.

 

Just think that lot through for a minute......


Edited by Ghostrider, 11 April 2020 - 05:54 AM.

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#11 Colin

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 07:04 AM

We have been living in a "Police State" for some time.  Surveillance everywhere, and pretty much nothing "social" happens unless the police "approve" it first.



#12 Windwalker

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 08:00 AM

I have no doubt that the police, like ourselves are finding their way through this mess just now, but I would expect them to ensure their officers are up to date and act in an appropriate manner. Whilst I have heard no complaints regarding our local police and their handling of folk locally, it is concerning to see daft officers down south telling folk they can’t go in their front garden, chief officers threatening to search your shopping, council officials telling shops they can’t sell hot cross buns etc. At least in these three cases they have admitted they got it wrong, but how many folk were forced to comply with or fined for wrongful interpretations of the law, who weren’t doing anything wrong.

 

In America despite the various amendments,  an officer will decide your guilty of a crime and a huge risk before you open your mouth. Once stopped some will do all they can to ramp up the situation to find a reason to charge you with something, sometime resulting in shooting. In America you are 9 times more likely to be killed by a police officer than a terrorist. What happened to ‘serve and protect ?’ It’s now ‘find a reason to issue a ticket as in some states their force gets some of the money’ My worry is in lots of ways, Britain follows America and if we all sit back and do nothing, when we know our rights are being abused, we will allow Britain to slowly become a police state. Policing for cash must never be allowed to be the norm in the U.K. 

 

In the main the local police in Shetland do a great job, they are friendly, professional and show common sense, this is down to good local leadership and we are lucky to have a local man in charge. Like all organisations there will always be those who join the force for the wrong reasons and it’s important we bring these officers to the attention of their superiors. After all if we got poor service from a shop worker we wouldn’t think twice about telling them or their boss we weren’t happy. The majority of officers do a great job sometimes under difficult and dangerous circumstances. They like our nurses, care staff etc etc, should be applauded for the work they do at this difficult time. The folk on the front line don’t have the luxury of staying at home safe like some of us.

 

Our liberties are important, but we have to remember these are exceptional times, which won’t last forever, so let’s all try to take a sensible approach and work together. 
 



#13 Windwalker

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 08:23 AM

That sounds ok and perfectly rational Sukibind, but where do you draw the line here?  A sunny day and a few people exercising that right to socialise on the beach, keeping their distance, then a few more then a few more. At what point as the crowd gathers do you draw the line. If you allow some then others will follow, surely you can see what will happen. Ok the police might be heavy handed in some situations but their job aint easy here, and there's every chance that the people they're dealing with here aint too cooperative either. If you allow a couple to enjoy the beach, or the park, then plenty of others will demand the same right. Only way to stop the escalation is to stop it before it starts.

Can understand where your coming from, but if we took this to extremes, we would all wrap ourselves in cotton wool, just in case.

 

Midder wit, seems to get lost in lots of discussions. If I’m the only one walking on the beach, I wouldn’t see the problem, if more and more folk arrive, I would think, for my own safety and the fact this is starting to look like a gathering, I think I’ll head home before the police arrives. Those who don’t can expect to be approached by the police. At the same time if the police sees one or two people walking on a beach and confirm they live nearby, they should be allowed them to get on with their exercise.
 

I also appreciate and understand that we are being requested not to travel to a beach, but should take a walk from our home and back. We are lucky we are still being allowed to do this. I would agree that’s there’s no real need to drive to a beach to take a walk, but if the beach is in my door step then I would see no issue with it. I also accept exercise should not be having a barbecue on the beach, we are in lock down not on holiday.

 

midder wit is needed in the current climate.



#14 Claadehol

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 11:24 AM

Midder wit is sadly lacking in a lot of cases where individuals assume they are far wiser than the medical experts who are recommending tough measures.


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#15 Windwalker

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Posted 11 April 2020 - 12:02 PM

Midder wit is sadly lacking in a lot of cases where individuals assume they are far wiser than the medical experts who are recommending tough measures.

Completely agree, hopefully that’s the ones the police will eventually fine.