unstman100

'new'Labour ' I thought New Labour, was nothing more than the Tories under the rule of Mr Tory Blair? Given his past performance and his distance from the trade unions, nothing more emphasizes this point greater........oh, yes, taking us into an illegal war......but what is 300 or so soldiers lives compared to the vast riches of oil? (greed and backing the US regardless, being another trait of the Conservatives.....I mean, New Labour) I would be intrigued on the Isle of Man, and how they cope with being separate from the UK, but still managing to maintain ties?

Spinner72 said ' Sorry, still lost '. ' miming to a pre-recorded voice ' - Are you implying or saying that this behaviour, in terms of a live performance, is perfectly acceptable and is not committing fraud or deception to those people paying to see a performance which involves singing live ? If Queen were using pre-recorded instrumental backing tracks, fair enough if its a technical issue........but if Freddy Mercury and the other singers within Queen were just miming to the songs they had previously created......you are saying this would be acceptable on the basis of you seeing them for real.....regardless of their behaviour when doing a concert? Please differentiate between instrument(s) sounds (acoustic or electronic) and this of the human voice.

Spinner72 said ' I'm a bit lost as to the point you're trying to make. ' The point I am trying to make, albeit serving a different commercial need, is counterfeit goods is no different to this of creating music via false pretences or gaining commercially by deception of the performance being conducted and justified under the guise of ' entertainment '. Its an act of fraud no matter how much you butter it up or attempt to justify it. Yes, using technology as a means of helping you in terms of the tune structure (instrumental) is acceptable to a degree.......... but miming to a pre-recorded voice no matter what guise it goes under in terms of its function should not be allowed. A person singing on stage and charging you to listen to them should be singing....this should be the basic criteria of any musical performance which involves singing. If dance routines or prancing around on the stage cannot be done because the said performer(s) cannot sustain a singing voice (if indeed they can sing in the first place?) get rid of it.........don't justify such physical activity by letting them mime. Image should never ever take precedence over musical ability......whether this be instrumental or singing...period. Ever since the time technology advanced to a level where it, in some cases, superseded musicians, image has replaced this aspect of music where instruments are either few and far between or are not required in terms of a so-called stage/concert performance......this is fundamentally wrong regardless what spoon fed media hyped up justification being used to allow such a blatant act of deception to take place. Music is about the beauty and art of sound......NOT.....Image or whether a person(s) looks good......but performs fraudulently, musically.

EM said ' One situation where I would prefer if someone did mime is the wife currently scratching away on the street in busker fiddle mode. It is so dire it could only be an improvement if she stood at the cross and mimed to the music piped out of High Level, though it would look very bizarre when it changed to accordion tunes .' E, didn't you know she has an inflatable accordion in that fiddle case as well I see your point with the TOTP clip. Nowadays though, some people would accept this form of ' false entertainment ', because they do not know any better.........let the mainstream media dictate their view or opinion.......as long as it ' allegedly entertains '. Gaining money by deception, fraudulent means is perfectly acceptable as long as they (The Pretentious Artist(s), Record Company, Recording Company) make the ' quick buck '......Why should it matter? I am sure if it were a product, as in counterfeit products, this would also be perfectly acceptable as long as the people selling such products, like the certain factors of the music industry, make a handsome profit.

Spinner says 'Lets put it the simple way - if someone sings with a live band, do they they become less talented a singer if they then sing to a backing track? ' The point I am making is the act of miming......pretending to be singing to a vocal track.....when it is clearly not the original voice of the performer on the stage......unless it has been pre-recorded. I watched the video you presented on your first blog, and yes, you can see the use of technology being used (pretty good at that) to enhance the singing and structure of the overall song. However, would you have put the same video up if K.T. Tunstall was miming but she was entertaining the audience ? I have no objection to using technology to assist me in creating music and/or enhancing acoustic instruments (Jean Michel Jarre being a good example of this), as part and parcel of the overall structure to a tune. Where I seriously object to is a person (reputed singer or not) is blatantly miming to whatever song and is charging you to see them ' perform live '. Nowadays, this description has been (perpetrated by certain factors of the music industry) replaced with ' entertaining or entertainers ', making it allowable for ' certain singers ', to get away with miming because it goes under the guise of entertainment.........this still does not negate the fact they are still committing fraud or gaining commercially by deception.

So Spinner, what your advocating, as long it entertains, it doesn't matter whether the performance, either instrument or singing, is fake, mimed ? Where do you draw the boundaries between genuine music performers (as in people who actually play instruments and/or sing) to this of pushing a button on a cd player and miming ? Are you suggesting or implying a person who mimes is as equally talented as a person who can play an instrument, sing beautifully or both ? Are you just looking at it from the point of view of making money or by being easily entertained because it was created by a false and pretentious means....but it entertains? Does technology take precedence over a live performance just because it can be done and/or be a substitute for the ' real McCoy '? If I were to take a photograph of a beautiful scene, take the digital image and make look like a painting using graphic software and.........Sell it too you as a genuine painting......would you say that was acceptable? There is no difference between what I have just mentioned and what you are advocating.......claiming something to be something else when it is clearly not.

Its a shame that nothing in Shetland regarding Music can be done unless alcohol is involved.......which seems to be the main topic and not what bands/groups/music was being played. A sad reflection on what Shetland seems to be known for........alcoholism...and not music.

[**Mod Edit - Title changed to reflect content of Poll**] Acceptable Fraud – Shouldn’t be I do not know what all the fuss was about regarding Bjorn Again performing live, but questions as to whether they were miming or not. I noticed myself, watching other bands/musical performers’ play/sing, the slight time delay between watching them on the stage to this of seeing them on the massive television screen next to the stage. Due to the amount of cabling, hardware and other bits of technology the video and sound signal has to go through, it is not surprising there is going to be a very slight delay on the screen from what is coming live. Even television broadcasts reputed to be transmitting live (sport a good example), there is a delay of several seconds, and in some cases, even minutes to what actually happens to what you see on your tv screen. The music industry or certain record companies have been getting their investments (boy/girl bands.....bands, that’s a joke...bands normally have ‘the artists playing instruments’ as well) to mime, sing in an attempted synchronisation to a backing track or a cd reproduction but play it off as being a live performance. You’re having a joke, aren’t you? Modern pop bands (predominantly boy and girl bands again (mass produce garbage)), have been miming every so-called live concert they do. Do you honestly think they can do all those well rehearsed dance routines and physically sustain a singing voice.....I think not. We have been seriously brainwashed since the early ninety’s with the major record companies mass producing garbage/trash on the basis that image, not musical talent and ability, is the basis of pop music now. If you look good, that’ll do........doesn’t matter if you cannot sing...(with all the modern technology/software they have in recording studios, anybody can sing....and I mean anybody) we’ll tweak your voice in the studio...or....you can mime when performing live....we’ll just play a studio version of the song......the public will pay handsomely for tickets, cd’s, t-shirt’s and all the other paraphernalia we can give the deluded fans because they are so easily parted with their money. Who created these entire image based bands, who is responsible for the publicity (brainwashing), who benefits from all this.........two words......record companies. Technology has played a major part in this means of making easy money. I must admit, I use the same technology (albeit on a vastly smaller budget), to write, compose, play and record the music I want to create. Certain music studios (on behalf of the record companies) have done away with musicians, bands and groups as it costs too much.......technology, in the long term, is far cheaper, more versatile and is easier to control. What has replaced the talented musicians.....you guessed correctly.....image.....hence so much manufactured/fake/false/fraudulent music nowadays. So, the next time you see a so-called pop star or boy/girl band being promoted by the tv, radio, press, magazines etc.......ask yourself.....Is this really value for money or am I being conned? There is a saying ‘ You’ll never meet a honest business person ‘, this is so true with modern pop music now.