islandhopper

mercy mercy I'm been caad a nazi, ...

Poooh ... cool down a bit ...

But still an independent UK judge ruled that the present climate changes are for the most part caused by humans through the emission of CO2, methane and nitrous oxide.

Sorry Fryer, that was not the key question. He did not judge on that, that only was the reason for his judgement.

The key question he had to judge was: Free for secondary schools or not? And he judged NO - not in this way, not without additional information provided along with the film to level the amount of political propaganda!!!

There is absolutely no " "cloud the issue" campaign running". The simple fact is that no judge can judge controversally discussed scientific issues, the only thing he can judge is whether it is - according to actual knowledge - suitable to present them in this way or not.

Very basic principle of justice: You are not guilty unless the opposite has been prooved ... and for his case Gore showed the wrong or at least doubtful whitnesses. That's all ...

Well now you can say: some people are promoting global warming so they can profit from things like wave power. Well considering the low budgets they have compared to the oil industry I think they might then be running the most effective add campaign in history.

I would never say so for different reasons:

i) I'm convinced that 'my Orcadian friends' are absolutely on the right way

ii) I do know that they are not suffering from insufficient fundings. They opted for a small step strategy and that was right.

iii) And Scottish Executive will according to all EU rulings support and fund the new wave power plant with the capacity to serve the minimum of 3000 Orcadian households as guarantied by the mighty Lord Alex 2 weeks ago

iv) And that along with that the research capacity of EMEC will be trippled within the next two years ...

&c &c &c

... and yes, I'm sorry, that my Shetland friends slept over the last decade and that their cooncillors are now engaged in that bloody no-future windfarm project ... with a by far smaller project refused by the Orcadian public last week (Yesnaby development &c)

[final edit due to technical probs]

there are very strong lobbies working in the shaddows.

Here you are absolutely right: Very strong lobbies are working on both sides! And I agree that Al Gore is one of the strongest lobbyists and as stated before, in some spects he has done an acceptable job. Nevertheless: Beware of Lobbyists!

It is my impression that there is at present a "nation building" process going on in Scotland. An emphasis on internal consolidation, scottishness and so on. ...

I don't see that at all. What I am afraid of is the danger of a cultural split following f.e. the Gaelic Language Act and the absolutely disproportional funding of Gaelic compared with other things. Could you just ask one question? Why is there a full Gaelic BBC program for a minority of some 1.5% of all Scottish people and just a daily half an hour in Shetlan, Orcadian or other Scots dialects??? ... and that's just the tiop of an iceberg ...

Hence Loch a Vatster eydir contains a pre-norse structure fae Pictish, or a post norse Scots structure derived fae Gaelic. ...

Forget of all the Loch-names on OS maps or so. They are all going back to Pont and his accounts or those of his 17th/18th century successors who had neither an idea of Gaelic nor of Scots. They just wrote down what they did understand and that ended up in so funny things as on the western coast of Scotland like "Loch Laxfirth" or "Loch Snizoort" for that what had been "Synforth" for centuries ...

In terms of modern place name research: Nothing else but rubbish ... Nevertheless there was an agreement between Ordnance Survey and Historic Scotland by the end of the 1990s or early 2000s to go back to the traditional placenames and spellings but I do know only a few locations where it is applied on the most recent maps ... like Brodgar again instead of Brogar or Aikerness instead of the corruption Gurness on Orkney and a handfull of Shetland inshore waters ...

Freyr, do I hear some 'surprise, surprise ... ' ???

That fact was well known right from the beginning with the first press reports over here (what includes a two days time lack compared with the first press publications in the UK).

The more interesting question is: What does it count as long as we don't have any reason to question the independence of the judge???

As to me: I do know that there are human impacts, I don't question them, but I take them so serious that I don't want to see them discussed in this Al-Gore-US-Soap-Opera-Style!

That film might have had its use within the US context waking up the sleeping US majority (and that's a lot of good work!!!).

You probably konw that the oceanographic and hydrographic services of the North Sea and the Baltic Sea neighbouring states are working closely together ... and what they did discuss and publish at their last conference about changing sea levels and its reasons just two weeks ago is absolutely not in accordance with the late 1990s theories promoted by Al Gore and his film.

Their message simply was: We are facing a natural global climate change outnumbering the 17th century effects fivetimes, sixtimes ... or more ... with a little human impact of some 10% or less on top of it.

That's exactly that what I was told by one of my academic teachers in the later 1970s. If he was and they will be right, it doesn't make any sence to discuss human impacts. Instead we should - now - concetrate on a debate which part of Europe we want to give up and which parts we want to keep whatever it might cost. Drowning coasts in northwest Europe will then be a minor problem; desertification of middle east and southern Europe will be the key problem.

My main critic of Al Gore and the film simply is - and I am well aware that no British or German or Norwegian judge can follow up this at the moment: They are misleading the public discussion, they are preaching "it's man made - and so man can change" ... and that's a wrong strategy.

Shetlanders are sensitive ... some Shetlanders are hyper-sensitive ...

but they do have their reasons "WHY" ...

God s(h)aves the Queen ... !!!

[Mods]

Freyr,

it is right to say that the judge agreed with the main thrust of Mr Gore’s arguments: “That climate change is mainly attributable to man-made emissions of carbon dioxide, methane and nitrous oxide (‘greenhouse gases’).â€

BUT - we should also hear that he said:

“It is now common ground that it is not simply a science film – although it is clear that it is based substantially on scientific research and opinion – but that it is a political film.â€

"Finding nine significant errors" might be acceptable within the political context of the film; they are not tolerable under the headline 'scientific documentation'.

The judge finally "agreed it could be shown but on the condition that it was accompanied by new guidance notes for teachers to balance Mr Gore’s “one-sided†views."

As to me the judge obviously remembered that it once was general scientific agreement the mother earth was a flat disc ...

(italics = qutes from the Times, bolds by me)

It is a good forum this, all though it does seem to of lost some of the fun it had when it first started...

Twerto, it is not only good ... it's simply the best ...

For a communnity of some 20,000 locals plus a handfull of expats plus a handfull of visitors (like Freyr or me) it is absolutely unique ... not only for Scotland but for the rest of rural NW Europe ...

I don't know why - and for the moment I don't have the time to look after the details - but the whole combined internet activities of Shetlink and Shetlopedia are absolutely unique for a community of a comparable size ... Saying that I'm just talking about the exchange of information and not talking about "political influence" or "decision making" as with the Sakchai campaign ...

[edit] @ Sheepshagger:

... as far as the "one local is corncerned": You are not alone ...

... and yes, history in general and Scottish history in particular would have been different in case Napoleon would have been successfull in crossing the Channel with all the impoverished Normandy nobility following up and tracing the Scottish roots of their ancestry ... I am not talking about "enforced euthanasia" but you are probably right: Your convener today might be a Marquis de St Clair again ... and probably "yes", modern Brythonic might be your local dialect today ...

[edit]

@Fifi:

Absolutely right ...

I also know of one at least that the single mother came here with two bairns straight into a council house (A local family knocked down the register again) and then granny turns up and gets a sheltered house ...

Sorry, but are we talking about a manifested trend or the dimension of 0.5 per mill provided you would remember more than 8 similar cases ... ??? ;-)

Crossbreeding a white mouse with an elephant to get a white elephant???

Never mind ...

If one reads the wording of the pawn letter taking this into account it might seem that Christian I only meant the land he owned.

Well, actually Christian I handed over

"All and sundry our land ... with all and sundry our rights ... pertaining to us and our predecessors ... "

That is at least what the only surviving copy of the treaty (now in Copenhagn) says.

Christian I not only pawned Orkney/Shetland for the marriage but other possessions for different reasons as well (all of them being later redeemed like those part of Slesvig-Holsatia he had pawned before).

As we do know from these other cases the intention of the standard phrase of "all and sundry land and rights" possessed by the crown of Denmark (here as successor of the Kings of Norway) is quite clear: The Scots should enjoy exactly the same lands and rights as did the Danish crown.

That would include:

i) The temporary ownership of the royal estate.

ii) No land of an udaller - no Norwegian king had power over the LAND of an udaller ... but it included the right to collect skat from udallers.

iii) The feudal overlordship over the Earl of Orkney.

In other words, all exercise of the souvereingty was in a "state of suspension" until some uncertain future date.

It is also clear that on the other hand James III acted as if he had acquired full royal rights, calling the Bishop of Orkney to the Scottish parliament (and that chap took his seat and handed out collected taxes right from the spot), granting a royal charter for Kirkwall and later not forfeiting but buying out the earldom estate and annexing the earldom as he did with other properties of Scottish feudal nobility (Boyds in 1469 or later Ross (1476) and March (1487)).

It is also questionable whether Christian I acted as King of Denmark or as King of Norway. The tricky thing is that the contract itself was a typical "Danish document" (handled by Danish diplomats without information to the Norwegian parliament) but it has the phrase "pertaining to us and our predecessors, Kings of Norway" what was at some time interpreted as Christian I placing himself in the line of the Norwegian Kings ...

Well, the version handed out to the Scottish court somehow diasappeared (Why??? - might be an interesting question) but we do know that the Scottish crown ruled Orkney and Shetland in different ways over the following 150 years (roughly) and that fact alone might indicate, that the Scots of those days were well aware that they were acting along a highly disputable borderline ...

Just a few thoughts ...

i) Imagine you would have lived for 55 or 60 years somewhere in Somerset before you decided to go for the rest of your life to Shetland. Would you give up all your day to day friends, your family and your local community for some £300 quit of X-Mas bonus or for some other reasons???

ii) How many elderly Shetlanders actually do say fare well to those £300 quit of X-Mas bonus and do settle somewhere in the south my it be Scotland mainland or England???

What's really annoying is the highlight on pure material things like "how much do they / did they contribute to the wealth in the past" and how much will be their "profit as parasites".

Sorry folks, you are in that splendid situation that you might ask "how much is it" ... 10times, 20times, 50times £300 quit of X-Mas bonus ??? but compared with useless expenses (court fees for the Bressay bridge disaster) it is absolutely not worth any further discussion.

Despite that - and here I give an example from outside Shetland, from Orkney: What is it worth, when a pensioneer from Somerset comes, settles on an island and - being the only one who is able to play the organ/harmonium and thus bringing together the congregations of the Church of Scotland, the Methodists, the Baptists - and getting involved in that particular case - the monks from the neighbourghing island ...

posting a monthly newsletter via the internet around the world about everyday life on that particular island ...

and thus attracting more Canorky (or in your case Kiwishelty) tourists to the island than there have ever been before ???

Counting peanuts may be an interesting job but it is not the best way to keep declining communities alive ...

... as usual the S in SUMO is probably for Scottish ... for the rest: They managed to create a website http://www.museumbranding.co.uk/about_museum_branding.html without giving a proper explanation ...

Ten years ago they would have said: We try our best - let's hope it will work ...

The isle of man is not unique the channel isles are also crown dependencies ...

That's probably correct with regard to their actual status, it is absolutely not correct with regard to the historical background on which they might have got that status ... with regard to that the Isle of Man and the situation is unique ...

... the isle of man along with the western isles was sold to scotland by Norway ...

Right. Did Scotland ever pay the Annuals of Norway? NO

Are you the rightful owner in case you took something but never paid for it? NO

Why complaining about the (in this case more clever) English who made the Isle of Man to their dominion???

Sorry folks, but there is some time in between now and then.

Well Scotland may take the North Sea oil (those towns on the Midland Belt dependent on North Sea gas may pay for the share produced from English fields) then you pay back what Northern Irish, Welsh and English taxpayers have contributed to develop the North Sea oilfields in the past and then you pay the Annuals of Norway plus interests to keep the Western Isles (if the majority of none Gaelic speakers and the Scottish tourism industry want to keep them) ... and we will have The same situation as after the Darien experience: Scotland would be bancrupt!

It's up to your choice who then should solve the problem. Again the Bank of England, or the Brussels-ECB, or World Bank ...

Funny discussion in 2007 ...

Not really ... but today there was a newspaper report over here stating that crocodiles caught in and evacuated from the Perth area managed to walk back over 400 miles and more within less than a year ...

So, you should probably not trust in any sign posts saying "Crocodile free zone" ...

There is absolutely nothing on the base build of Shetlink that will be associated with this trojan "TR/Java.Downloader.Gen". There are no Java based applications on this site whatsoever.

 

I am currently investigating the third party advertisers "just incase" there is any possibility that anything has managed to get through "our net".

 

Do note however, that trojans and viruses such as the one noted in this thread if activated on a client computer can and do interact with Internet based pages - even if they have nothing to do with the initial "infection".

Absolutely agreed.

Final report:

They managed to trace from where I got that nasty thingy (it wasn't more than that): It came from a UK based website which shows dozens of stunning aerial views of Shetland and Orkney. That site was i) infected and ii) recently linked to the German and UK version of one start up tourist info website from where I visited the infected site.

If anyone interested, I will give you the URL via pm but for the moment I don't want to publish it because it looks like that the guy is still working on getting definitely rid of that thingy but he has done such a tremendous job in publishing those pics that I do hope he will manage somehow. He must have been in the air for weeks to produce the collection which is the biggest collection of aerials from Shetland and Orkney I've ever seen so far.

What was new to that version: i) it reacted not only on java applets but on 'powerfull animations' as well as they do come along on Shetlink as adverts for emoticons (at least when looking from Germany on the left of the site) and it ii) resets your own browser security settings to lowest level.

After deleting that thingy and all affected favourites (I'm using IE 7 normally) I had to re-adjust my security settings again and finish ...

Sorry for causing irritations ...

... In Shetland some sort of fencing to act as wind-breaks. (I see few trees) I am sure that a larger site would bring in a lot of people from places such as Germany, Holland and Italy. People are actually coming North increasingly to escape the hot weather ...

Absolutely agreed ... although waiting until the trees and bushes are grown to produce some shelter might be a very long term investment ...

But there are other possiblities to offer some shelter. (Don't tell your Orcadian neighbours ) but one of my favourite 'outdoor' campsites over there is a hidden picknick place directly sitting on a beautifull beach. Imagine three compartments of a Bronce Age wheelhouse built in drystone walling into some kind of dunes. The two outer compartments are fitted with benches and tables, the middle compartment is empty. It looks like that it might serve for a fireplace, but there is none, its all fine sandy beach, ideal for my tent ... :-D and absolutely sheltered except a strong wind is coming from a northeasterly direction what doesn't happen that often in that area ...

2 or 3 semicircles each with three niches for tents would make a site sheltered from all directions ... and all you would see from a little distance would possibly look like a bigger planticrue ...

Well, for the caravans we would need some different kind of shelter ... but a few walls and gables looking like one or two 'partly ruined crofts' would absolutely be perfect. It would make a feature absolutely fitting to the countryside, nobody would see any camper. It would be an absolute "Aha effect", perfectly marketable. Two or three website articles and after two seasons it would be the "top secret tip" among continental campers ...

Folks comming over are interested in an unspoiled nature and heritage. Imagine what might happen when they do tell to the insidere circles "Have you ever camped on a ruined croft but perfectly fitted out to top standards?"

The interested "Scotland community" over here is small, the interested "Shetland community" is even smaller ... but different to other destinations: they are all repeaters ...

@tarotangel

That would be nice ... that guy is desperately looking for a reason to convince his girlfriend to come back to the island ...

Over the weekend we had our meeting of the German speaking SchottlandForum. There I met a chap who had been in a youth working camp on Bressay 25 years ago. The youngsters were most of the time involved in repairing the drystone walls around the Bressay cemy and its neighbourhood.

Are there any folks who do remember that camp or do have photographs of meetings with the public???

Thx

... It's just the Council and their foolishness again, but it's pointless to protest, as when they get fired up about somehing, there's no stopping them ...

May be not the council but probably the "trust" risking its status as a "charity" due to its involvement in high risk economic developments ...

... right, absolutely the first thing!

Forgot that Medziotojas is sitting where ??? ... Lituania it was?

The old DOS-Word thing and different interpretations of Keyb command settings ... still working ... :-D

Have you tried "M$ idiots" way which sometimes works esp. if it was you who has sent out a word.doc asking for corrections and comments and one of the answers doesnt work properly:

i) save one of the working returns under a new name for the following test ...

ii) open that word file with working "Track Changes" toolbar

iii) choose from the menue "insert" or similar (not sure about the correct English text on the that "tab", but it should be the fourth from left in the menue bar) and select "insert file"

iv) search for the not proper working file in the opening win explorer window and make a doubble click so that it will be added

v) when the file is inserted, check for any marks and look whether or not the "Track Changes" toolbar is working

vi) if working, save file under new name, delete the things you don't need from that file and you have a new version ...

Had similar probs in the past because some of the authers and correctors for ou website didn't use the word tools properly but in most of the cases it worked ...

[edit]

Using M$ individual hotfixes and installing KB12345678 or so when auto update was not enabled it might lead (at least here on the continent, German & French support esp.) to the following result: the prob might get fixed but under the condition "proggy set back to standard" that's to say you have lost the customizing settings your were familliar with ... read the M$ KB tech documents first esp. in case there are nationalized variants to be sure about what you are doing effectivly ...

good luck

Well, the avira folks told me today that the thingy that comes down to my puter and causes the alert when switching between different Shetlink forums is a version of the well known trojan TR/Java.Downloader.Gen (classified as seldom, low risk, low damage potential).

Their update from today detects it immediatly for deletion but it still appears when on Shetlink ...

That must not mean that the thingy originated from Shetlink, it might also be that it is just activated or resonding because of a java application on the site. No idea whether there is one or not. The remaining prob is that it is not in those sun/java directories on my puter where it was normally copied to after a secret download of the carrying zip file in the past.

addition because Marjolein mentioned that "X":

It is not an ActiveX related prob; M$ is updated automatically on a dayly routine and in that case the alerts from the third party proggy providers would show a familiar but different result ...

I do have the same prob. Took me three days to get that thingy to which the software is reporting isolated in a secure way from the quarataine section. Managed in the end and sent it to the software company reporting an unidentified file which might be either an unknown virus or an unwanted prog with some special risks.

Received an auto-mail that they are searching but so far no reactions from the labs about what to do.

Specs for my installed system and software:

WinXP with IE 7 and installed avira antivir pro for standard antivir checks incl. e-mail checks, zonealarme security suite pro as firewall and adaware SE personal ... all security systems reporting though in different ways

It would be a cheap site to obtain, and with any luck many of the less bright Councillors might end up wandering aimlessly lost in the sea of heather looking for it, where they can do little harm.

Ghostrider, you did confuse me. I was wondering all the time since when was the hospital on the RAF Saxa Vord site ...