Violence at the cross

[Guest Anonymous]

And whats wrong with blaming the parents Mcfly? they certainly have a lot of influence. Is it not the case some parents simply DONT CARE if the'yre kid is out till 2am or whenever. They have to take some responsibility. And Sun readers are'nt that bad anyway, what do you read?

[McFly]

So nobody's reponsible for anything ever. Marvellous.

 

Where exactly did you find that suggestion in what I posted?

[McFly]

And whats wrong with blaming the parents Mcfly? they certainly have a lot of influence. Is it not the case some parents simply DONT CARE if the'yre kid is out till 2am or whenever. They have to take some responsibility. And Sun readers are'nt that bad anyway, what do you read?

 

As I said before, blaming the parents is an unhelpful simplification of what is a very complex problem. Of course parents shoulder some blame, but so should the rest of us as a society.

 

As for the problem with Sun readers, I suppose it isn't a problem as long as they realise that what they're reading is not fact, but politically motivated spin, designed to protect the interests of the rich people who control the main stream media.

 

I suppose it's wrong to single out the Sun, most of the broadsheets are just as bad, it's just that Murdoch's flagship rag is the most blatant about it.

[Guest Anonymous]

Other side of the coin is the courts and punishment. In my view there are too many young offenders getting some form of punishment when perhaps some form of help to reform the offender would be good for the offender and the community.....and probably cost less than locking them up.

 

I could not belive it when I was at a meeting where someone proposed getting people doing community service to clean Shetlands beachs. we were then told that they could not do that as it may be dangerouse, plus they did not like dirty jobs or ones exposed to the elements so they may not turn up and that could ruin the stats for number completeing their community service! What a farce!

[Guest Anonymous]

And whats wrong with blaming the parents Mcfly? they certainly have a lot of influence. Is it not the case some parents simply DONT CARE if the'yre kid is out till 2am or whenever. They have to take some responsibility. And Sun readers are'nt that bad anyway, what do you read?

 

As I said before, blaming the parents is an unhelpful simplification of what is a very complex problem. Of course parents shoulder some blame, but so should the rest of us as a society.

 

As for the problem with Sun readers, I suppose it isn't a problem as long as they realise that what they're reading is not fact, but politically motivated spin, designed to protect the interests of the rich people who control the main stream media.

 

I suppose it's wrong to single out the Sun, most of the broadsheets are just as bad, it's just that Murdoch's flagship rag is the most blatant about it.

 

I think the issue of whether the sun is an impartial bastion of the truth or not (although it's clearly not) isn't really the point.

 

What surely no one can disagree with is that somebody who's legally an adult (and these boobalubes certainly are) should HAVE to take responsibility for their actions, regardless of whether daddy was a drunk, mummy was kidnapped by a passing circus...

[McFly]

What surely no one can disagree with is that somebody who's legally an adult (and these boobalubes certainly are) should HAVE to take responsibility for their actions, regardless of whether daddy was a drunk, mummy was kidnapped by a passing circus...

 

Absolutely!

 

Individuals should be held responsible for their actions. That wasn't what I was taking issue with.

 

Unfortunately, we're dealing here with a trend towards antisocial behaviour and that's a very different thing from isolated individual cases. In order to combat this trend we've got to identify and understand the underlying causes.

 

And that's where I see a problem. People are way to eager to trot out meaningless phrases like "I blame the parents" and won't entertain the notion that society as a whole is at fault, and needs to look for answers instead of scapegoats.

[Guest Anonymous]

What surely no one can disagree with is that somebody who's legally an adult (and these boobalubes certainly are) should HAVE to take responsibility for their actions, regardless of whether daddy was a drunk, mummy was kidnapped by a passing circus...

 

Absolutely!

 

Individuals should be held responsible for their actions. That wasn't what I was taking issue with.

 

Unfortunately, we're dealing here with a trend towards antisocial behaviour and that's a very different thing from isolated individual cases. In order to combat this trend we've got to identify and understand the underlying causes.

 

And that's where I see a problem. People are way to eager to trot out meaningless phrases like "I blame the parents" and won't entertain the notion that society as a whole is at fault, and needs to look for answers instead of scapegoats.

 

 

I agree very much with these two views but I think the punishment or lack of it is the main reason why this behavior continues. These guys should be scared and humiliated and then made to go and live in some city where they would become very small fish in a big pond and no one would give a damn about them, let alone need to be scared of them.

[JustMe]

Oh come on. Kids going off the rails do not need punishment so much as guidance so they will start to become more socially acceptable people. A mixture of being shown what awaits them if they insist on being anti social such as a few hours in a police cell, a one to one chat with someone a bit older than them to let them know what lies ahead, maybe someone from the job centre to explain what a police record could do to their long term job prospects and a nurse describing in some detail the saturday night injuries they have to deal with. While this goes on some sort of guidance from "experts" on how to change their ways. Still probably cheaper than a custodial sentence. And maybe an interview with the sheriff to outline his powers would be good.

 

As for parents I guess there are those that do not believe their child could be in trouble as well as those who have given up trying to control the child. Dont see that they should be punished but I do think that those who do not want their nights out spoiled by their kids should perhaps be considered for ASBOs......surely leaving kids to run riot while they go to the pub has to be anti social?.

[Njugle]

Oh come on. Kids going off the rails do not need punishment......etc.......maybe an interview with the sheriff to outline his powers would be good.

 

As for parents ...etc.....surely leaving kids to run riot while they go to the pub has to be anti social?.

 

Both good points in an ideal world, but this is crediting the offenders with moral intelligence and reflective natures, which sadly, they so often do not have, and have great difficulty gaining. It is a social conscience that they need to be educated with, as well as some form of discipline. That is; taught that they are not "big fish" and that everybody knows that, in a condescending way. Like an enforced slightly humiliating, but beneficial community service. I don't know what to be honest.

 

The parent issue has taken a turn in recent years whereby errant parents declare and impose their right to have a life outwith that of being a parent, which by law they do not have(with minors) and instill this attitude in their "becoming adult" children. Also they transpose the persona of an adult onto their children at times under the "If that's what they want to do, then that's up to them" irresponsible falsitude, and wash their hands of it all.

 

One of the biggest , or most useful duties a parent has is to educate a child to understand and feel guilt. Not entirely empower them

[Distortio]

string 'em up! it weren't like this in my day, no respect, hard day's graft for a hard day's pay, kids today, nail 'em good, bring back the borstal, nail some sense into them, put 'em in the stocks, flog the parents, national service, hangin's too good for 'em, send 'em down the pit, they don't know what's good for 'em, WHERESMYDAILYMAIL...

 

zzzzzzzzzz

[Ally]

It's not about being a daily mail reader. I accept that the title of this thread hints at right-wing, reactionary stance but I'm afraid that was merely a device to drawn y'all in

 

I'm strongly in favour of rehabilitation, tolerance and understanding. Yes, the growing trend in anti-social behaviour can perhaps be traced back to myriad social and economic factors that should be addressed.

 

 

However, Lerwick can hardly be compared to some inner-city scheme in terms of poverty, social services, education, employment and health care. Sure, many young men and women are bored up here – but is that a sufficient excuse to condone attacking a 15-year old boy with a baseball bat for being a “magnie bastard�

 

 

There is a pack of thugs in Lerwick who are probably all about 22-23 now, who have been notorious for their cavalier attitude towards other peoples lives for years, yet only one of their number has seen the inside of a prison cell. I personally think that’s a bit turd.

[trout]

- remember that this is a family site!

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree with many a point raised here. Interesting debate.

 

I used to be a cross-goer for a while and although I have never caused any trouble, I have certainly seen it. Some people have gone on about "blame the parents etc" but that's not the point of the topic. You're gonna get unsavoury types in any community however I would say it is poorly dealt with in Shetland.

 

One thing that has struck me about the cross is.. why? Standing around, drunk, in the cold is not exactly fun. Also, why bother with a police presence. They are more than happy to patrol around in their cars but I have never seen a fight intervened or an incident prevented. Some behaviour I have seen behaviour in the pubs here has been absolutely disgraceful - I've also been in many a pub in the backend of Fife, which can be at times pretty ropey. I've seen people smashing glasses, actually fighting on the ground etc. Landlords seem "ok" with it. For instance, one time in the notorious Posers I saw two girls going at it, beating each other in the face - bouncers dragged them apart and told them to stop it. In this case, they should be thrown out. No question.

 

Personally, I would never be a bouncer here as if I was to refuse entry to a known deliquent here, I know I would probably get targeted in later weeks. It's definetely a tough one.

 

I think what's called for is stricter policing. I say, remove anyone seen loitering at the cross. Seriously, standing around at the middle of the night would be no great miss. The only place to miss out would be the Tattie Shop. If south and you were hanging around in large groups, guarenteed you would get moved on or at least watched by the police. It just seems to me that the police seem reluctant to act. They like to "appear" to be cracking down but they're not. For instance, I was carrying a crate of beer from my house to a friends, 5 mins walk tops. Yet they seemed intent on stopping me and IDing me (at 20, bearing in mind I am 6ft 4 - there was no reason to ID me). They then proceeded me to ask where I was taking it and that I "better not be serving minors". Shouldn't they be concerning themselves with the kids who are obviously underage? and dealing with conflicts happening in and around the pubs?

 

I don't blame the police in some ways but I really think they need to tackle the tough stuff and I seriously think closing commerical street between midnight and 6am would be a good thing.

[Guest Anonymous]

James D and that lot still on da prowl den? somethings nivir change!

[Guest Anonymous]

 

I don't blame the police in some ways but I really think they need to tackle the tough stuff and I seriously think closing commerical street between midnight and 6am would be a good thing.

 

Not a bad shout actually.

 

My old stamping ground of Mid Calder recently brought in a rule stating that groups hanging about could be broken up by the Police at the weekends. Something similar could work.