DavieG

Can I just say, again from a purely personal point of view, that I, like a number of you, deplore (once again) the route some of these discussions have taken. They sail very near to the moral wind as far as many of Sakchai's personal issues are concerned and this is disappointing from a personal point of view if nothing else. To have issues such as thyese debated in this way is, at the very least, uncaring towards those directly concerned. I like everyone respect the need for open debate on many issues and freedom of speech etc but the ability for people to hide behind aliases etc when discussing sensitive issues some times does the debate and the aims of this site no favours. As a matter of interest I will be making a sizeable personal donation to Shetlink for their terrific assistance throughout the 'crises', but a larger one from the fund would not be appropriate as they have quite rightly recognised. They have performed an amazing service for us so can I thank them again for everything. Without them we would certainly have struggled, especially at the outset of the whole thing. I think the Sakcahi issue has most certainly shown the value of sites such as this, but also potentially highlighted a number of downsides. Again it's only my opinion but I'm still not convinced that being able to hide behind alises necessarily makes for the best, most constructive or 'honest' discussions / debate - but also appreciate that, if used correctly, this approach does also have it's benefits re open speaking. Again just a personal opinion and observation. Finally let me clarify one of the more bizarre views re the press that appeared in this thread - namely the fact that someone (presumably me) should have had more control of the press and what they printed. Let me just state that at no time did the Shetland for Sakchai team use any of the detailed 'excuses' for Sakchai's behaviour that were highlighted in the thread. Our stance was always simply that he was under personal pressure and was POSSIBLY affected by personal issues at the time of the 'incident' and indeed the press, somewhat surprisingly, never asked for further details of this, from me at least. Also it was totally impossible for me to control who the press spoke to, either in or outside Shetland, what anyone said to them or what they ultimately printed - to suggest anything else is patently ridiculous. If someone provided them with information which was not totally accurate (especially in terms of the accurate facts but the inaccurate timings highlighted in this thread) then we could ultimately do nothing re that, unless the reporters concerned chose to check this out with us in the first instance. This only happened on one occasion that I can recall and we were able to set the record straight in that particular instance and the story was subsequently printed accurately. To keep trying to make some kind of 'debate capital' of this is once again unfair to the campaign team, or Sakchai's family, who attempted to provide the media with accurate information at all times and make no excuses for Sakchai at any time throughout the campaign. Had we been providing the press with a plethory of excuses, especially inaccurate one's, they would soon have publicly exposed this and it would have proved highly counterproductive to us and detrimental to the campaign in general - so why on earth would we have resorted to this kind of tactic? Hope this sets the record straight.

Thanks, Davie. I don't imagine I'll be writing about this case again, so thanks for your help. I think that holding together a broad coalition of people and keeping the focus on the specific issue - while dealing with journalists like me at the same time - isn't easy, but you've done it superbly well. PS I should add that I've never met Davie in my life, but he's been of great help to me as a journalist. He can't have had much of a life of his own over the past few weeks, but he's been unfailingly courteous and helpful. I'm sure that everyone in Shetland will be aware of just how much he's put into this; as an outsider I'd say that the guy has done a fantastic job. Great outcome so far - you've taken on the big boys and won an important victory. It's not over yet, but I think now it will go your way. Best wishes. Ron Ferguson Ron Thanks for this and very much appreciated. It was most certainly a pleasure doing business with you, especially as things have ultimately gone 'our' way (lets hope so in the long run anway) Who knows there may be more to come, with Sakchai's case, and others besides but lets hope its all positive from now on. Thanks again for all you great words during the crises. They meant so much to us all Cheers Davie and the team

I’ve been reading all your posts with interest and apologies for being so late in replying. Not had a lot of internet availability recently. This of course does not mean I have been out of the campaign loop – far from it in fact As regards the future of the campaign this will only really take shape over the next few days maybe even weeks, especially after further direct consultation with the main players. (Yes believe it or not a lot of work does go on behind the more public ‘scenes’ so to speak). Evolving ideas and directions in this respect will then be posted here for general information. The first and main issue of course is whether or not the Home Office plans to appeal the judicial decision. This is the most important campaign factor for the time being and we must await that outcome before deciding where to go from here. It is likely this will only be done once they see the judges written findings. If they do decide to appeal, obviously that fight remains our main concern and I believed we have to see that through first and foremost before we can even think of moving on and not lose focus at this time. If not - then decisions have to be made on how, if at all, to proceed with the campaign from there. As I see it this potentially extended campaign could then fall into two distinct areas: (1) The fight to gain wider justice for Sakchai by exploring the possibility of further legal action to make the Home Office accountable for their actions over the past few weeks. We will of course be taking legal and political advice on this, but I think that Alistair has already indicated this is a distinct possibility. This factor is for the main campaign team to consider, but mainly Sakchai himself of course, together with his legal and political representatives – so bear with us if things seem to move quite slowly and regular updates in this respect do not appear on this site. Rest assured those who have a need to know will be kept fully and directly informed. (2) If desirable where other, perhaps more public, efforts of the campaign should be targeted from here. Again here there are at least two alternatives. (a) To support other individual cases of a similar nature or ( To fight a more general, wider campaign i.e. bringing general pressure to bear on the Home Office to revisit and possibly amend the legislation that caused this ‘problem’ in the first instance or have it, at the very least, interpretated or applied differently. I have to say I personally concur with Revan’s posts on this issue and likewise in respect of any outstanding campaign funds – more of this later. For my part I suspect that (, in some form or other, would be the more productive from a more general campaign perspective, but am happy to be guided on this one. Someone mentioned the difficult decision process re selecting who to support and who not and this is very relevant. The ( approach may of course take some time to yield results (if at all) and in the meantime I am very well aware there are other individuals suffering the same potential fate as Sakchai. If, however, we agree toadopt this approach as a campaign team, this of course DOES NOT preclude any of us supporting other individual cases of our choice (even collectively in some respects) indeed we most certainly should if we feel so inclined – its more a matter of being as fair as possible to ALL individuals concerned (including many of course we do not know about) and trying, if we can, to provide the widest possible support to EVERYONE who finds themselves in a similar position to Sakchai. Sakchai’s case was very locally orientated and the issues well know and, as such, it inevitably attracted the highest levels of emotion and support in this respect. This is simply to be expected, so it would not be surprising if, when it’s totally over, many of you choose to leave your own personal involvement at that, and of course it is your individual choice and right to do. However most of us involved in Sakchai’s campaign have had our eyes opened to injustices of this nature and intend to remain involved at a number of levels in the future, come what may. It’s just a matter of how best to do this. I know that throughout this campaign there have been calls from some quarters to ensure we collectively do not forget others in this respect. Perfectly fair in itself – as far as it goes. We have continually pointed out this would, for many of us, be our longer term intentions. However, although these calls have been regularly posted by the individuals concerned I, for one, have not been aware of any specific or constructive suggestions from them as to how we should go about this or indeed who we should be seeking to help and represent in this respect. Although the suggestions in themselves of course have a great deal of general merit I for one would appreciate some clearer ideas on how THEY would wish us to proceed in this respect, rather than simply making bland and general statements and observations. Should I hold my breath? Others, including Revan, have suggested specific and constructive ways forward, so given that we have often been accused of ignoring these other individuals – here’s your chance. Let us know exactly what you are meaning and then we may be able to support your individual cases, if you know of one’s. I think it’s also fair to say that we would also greatly appreciate if they were to offer their ‘services’ in a more coherent, tangible and constructive manner, rather than simply and continually ‘sniping’ from the sidelines, often making snide observations and remarks behind cloaks of anonymity. This would help ensure their intentions are indeed honourable. I think I can be forgiven for sounding suspicious in this respect. Their active, effective and constructive involvement in the Sakchai campaign to date has left a lot to be desired in my personal opinion although we were continually assured they “supported†it. If they were indeed supporters, and now wish to see wider benefits come from this case, as we in the campaign team believe can actually happen, then it’s time for them to put their mouths, bodies and time to more constructive action and not simply expect others to do the work on their behalf, while they merely fill up pages on this forum with largely inane and often unconnected drivel. (having said that I welcome the recent more constructive postings) Come on guys have the courage of your convictions and try to make yourselves really useful for a change. Sorry if I still sound a bit put out, but we did have a great deal to put up with via some of these postings, especially at the height of the campaign when everyone involved was under a lot of personal pressure and the eventual outcome was decidedly uncertain. Those involved may have seen their role as offering ‘constructive criticism’, but many of us did not share this view, especially given the gravity of the situation. We would have been happy enough hearing alternative viewpoints (which some did offer) but occasionally these particular one’s stepped over some moral and basic common sense lines, whatever the individuals concerned believed. However, I am happy to let by gone’s be by gone’s in this respect, but sorry if some of the postings still leave a pretty sour taste in some of our mouths. Quite a number of these were neither constructive opposition or did they ask truly relevant questions, again in my personal opinion – a view however shared by many others involved. I do hope that all the relevant questions have now been answered and apologies to those who I could not answer personally due to time constraints if nothing else. Equally if they wish those in “similar circumstances†that they have continually highlighted to be assisted in any way, it would be of great benefit to know even a few more details than we have been offered to date. Until this is forthcoming (and this need not be done in a public manner via this forum) then we as a team most certainly can do nothing for them and forgive me if I say I remain a bit cautious, indeed suspicious, in this respect as well. I know many share my feelings on this one. Sympathetic – of course, but it would be good to know more than we do at present to ensure we are not chasing shadows in his respect. Those making these pleas have access to me via personal message and e-mail as they have already well demonstrated over the past few weeks, so if they feel they cannot post information here for any reason, they can do so direct. I will, if they wish, treat any contact in this respect with total confidentiality, as I will their ‘real’ identity should they wish to admit that, which I would of course would prefer for obvious reasons. If they do not wish their own identity to be uncovered through giving me / us this information (not my purpose in this I can assure them) then I would seriously question where their personal priorities lie. Finally as regards the Shetland for Sakchai ‘fund’ and the ridiculous suggestion(s) that this has now been “wastedâ€. This of course could not be further from the truth The fund was set up mainly to cover Sakchai’s legal fees, over and above that offered by SRT. This is, of course, still the case. We do not of course know as yet what the final legal bill will be and how covering that will be finally broken down among those concerned in this respect. There may indeed be yet more legal expenses to cover, over and above those already accrued, so the process goes on in this respect. Until that element is finally settled the fund will be a living and hopefully growing entity. Thanks to those of you who recognise this. Indeed feel free to carry on fundraising if the will is there – it may well be vital to us in this respect, or for others in a similar position. What I can promise, as I have done so often before, is that everything will be managed legally, publicly and transparently – in fact it can be handled in no other way. In the case of any funds being left over when all case related costs have been met, then these will be distributed as publicly agreed (I suggest a public meeting to agree the actions necessary in this respect would be the best way forward). The feeling right from the outset was that any surplus should be made available to support similar cases of injustice and I for one still believe this still to be the best way forward. I see that others support this stance. Nothing against C ATS or any other local campaign but I for one feel there is much more work to be done here that could benefit from some financial support or contributions This could either be done through existing national / international organisations such as Liberty or indeed through any number of official sources – or indeed through a new local fund to support any future strategy of the Shetland for Sakchai campaign or any other local support group(s) that may grow from it. . In all honesty I suspect there will not be a fortune left over when everything is taken into account so it might not necessitate much of a public debate but you never know. We must wait to see how the land lies when the campaign as it now stands is well and truly put to bed. Further constructive suggestions will be most welcome. Cheers for noo Davie and the Shetland for Sakchai team

I can only speak for myself on this one RuthF but can assure you that status of any kind would have made no difference to the support offered. The methodology / handling of this case by the HO and immigration services was the problem along with the fact that here was a decent person (irrespective of status) who certainly did not deserve to be treated in this way. I can think of no-one I would not have done the same for albiet that I found myself in the fore-front of this one as Sakchai was a family friend. I have been involved in other campaigns before where I did not even know the people invloved. Hope this answers your query. IN short yes I would like to think I and man others would have acted in this way whoever the person was.

Thanks again for this Ron. Wonderfully put as usual. Thanks also for all your excellent reporting throughout. Hope our paths cross in the not too distant future.

Couldn't agree more Derik. Journalists both local and national played an invaluable role in this result. They will of course say they were only doing their job but in truth I think it went beyond that and we saw the good side of the press throughout this campaign, from all sides. Thanks especially to the local media, and indeed the national BBC, who kept the story boiling till the other nationals came on board. This of course then had a knock on effect in terms of the political support, again an invaluable asset. I think for me it reached it nadir when I got a call for a live interview with Peter Sissons no less at three in the morning this morning Australia time. Think it went ok but unfortunately they called on the back of a rather 'lively' celebration at my sisters house in Melbourne. Dont think he noticed though. Then of course there were all those like Polar Bear who helped keep us on the right track in terms of how to conduct the political aspects of the campaign for maximum effect. Amazing too!!!! They will not be forgotten when the time comes I can assure you and them. Davie

Hi everybody just got back from the digital wilderness although Tasmania is fantastic in every other way imaginable. Did not have long enought to see it but worth the flying visit for sure. WELCOME HOME SAKCHAI AND NOW WE CAN REALLY SAY, ONCE AND HOPEFULLY FOR ALL, THIS IS YOUR REAL HOME FOR SURE. Of course this is the news we were all waiting and hoping for. FANTASTIC just doesn't begin to cover it. Shetland you have been amazing each and every one of you (well almost anyway) Last night at midnight in Australia was one of the great and most emotional moments in my life. Not simply because we had achieved what we set out to do and that real justice was eventually done as se hoped would happen, but more the realisation of the enormity of what had been achieved in such a relatively short time and HOW it was achieved - with the most unpresidented show of support from a small and politically insignificant community, totally committed and totally united - utterly amazing the more I think of it. They said we would never get the issue south of the border - but wow did you guys make them sit up and take notice. I did so many interviews over the phone last night and almost ALL from national stations and newspapers - again amazing!!!! Great to be able to speak to Radio Shetland and Hans as well of course. A few weeks ago we set out to move mountains not really believing that we could - or so we were told by those genuinely and usually in the know. But we did it and without the petitons, the Shetlink forum, the political muscle both north and south of the border, the expert help from all corners (even from people we didn't know at the outset) his employers support, his terrific circle of friends, his family and of course the thousands and thousands of you both at home and away, we could not have done it. But we did and so be massively proud of yourselves Shetland (and all our new found friends) wether at home or away. I for one have been proud to be part of it and to have hopefully played a part. But without your response, ideas, commitment etc etc I would have been a pretty lone and ineffective voice - so can i just say a MASSIVE thank you to you all. It has made me proud to be part of this terrific little community that has proved to be massive in so many other ways and of course so many great great poeple. OK the main fight is possibly not over yet, but lets face it given what I've heard to date it would seem crazy for the HO to appeal but you never know so lets not drop our guard just yet. Still have that party for Satch we've all been promising ourselves anyway - you all, and of course he, deserves it. I will catch up later you can be sure of that. In the meantime I am sitting in Melbourne with about three different drinks and having our own small celebration. And yes Polar Bear we do have Highland Park and so I will raise a glass and have one with you, that would be an honour. You are a gentleman. Your help and kindness have been immesurably important to us. You did not have to take on this fight and give your time and expertise to it but you did and that speaks volumes about you as a person in my opinion. Just one of many amazing people we have met over the past few weeks. The fight to ensure Sakchai does indeed stay and to make those accountable for the pain and incredible uncertainty they have caused him over the past month or so will go on, but for now relax for a wee while anyway and enjoy this incredible victory. To hear Satch speaking last night showed my why we did this and how important it was to win. Whatever anyone says I for one believe he was worth fighting for and to hear what he said last night confirms it was worth every sleepless night and stressful / emotional moment and that he is indeed a great credit and asset to our community. Of course there are others to fight for now. Its easy to say that we should do it, but not so easy to actually do - especially when we dont know who we are fighting for. Sure we have one or two names but there must be many many more and no doubt will be more in the future. Do we therefore fight single cases or go for a more widespread approach. Alistair Carmichael certainly seems to be hinting at this and i tend to agree. How we also go about this from a distance (at least we could solicit local rallies, media mail shots etc etc in Sakchai's case) and from lack of definitive knowledge of who they are and where they are is also difficult. Sure we can use modern technology to lobby where this is known but for many of those in similar situations it this enough? I feel we would be chasing shadows in many cases at least. Perhaps we should use this success in a more general and generic sense and seriously lobby to get the Home Office to put an end to this current practise and if necessary the law that drives or it. Or at least seek to get it ammended to ensure that cases such as Sakchai can never happen again or at least less often - wishful thinking I know but perhaps that's where we can use our new found influence rather than seek to fight individual battles that we might not have much clout with. Your thoughts would of course be appreciated. Just before I go for now can I say a few thank you's First to Sakchai himself for showing us just how mature and resourceful he is, especially under such pressure as he has faced over the past few weeks To his family for being amazing at all times. To Alistair Carmichael for his amazing a dedicated work and genuine commitment and downright friendly and caring approach - way and above the normal call of duty. You are a gentleman Alistair and I / we can only thank you from the bottom of our hearts. More to come but that will be for a future 'get-together'. To Alexandra and his legal team. You were incredible and went way beyond our expectations for support of this kind. To James, Joe, Shona and all at Clikckimin and SRT for their amazing contribution as employers and all round great human beings. You are a blueprint for what should be in this all too often corporate and uncaring world. To Tavish for all his hard work and taking so many political risks to support Sakchai and this campaign. To the SfS team especially Sakchai's pals. You are a credit to yourselves, your families, to young people in general and of course your community - Shetland. Be proud of yourselves - everyone else is. You have been totally dedicated and committed throughout and I know he is proud to call you his friends. You are an incredibly special bunch of folk and it is my pleasure to know you and to have worked alongside you all to achieve this result. You are the best for sure. To Caroline, Sandra, Sam Leckie and all the others who have worked on the campaign team - you are amazing and it will not be fogotten by any of us - my round for sure. To the guys at Shetlink for offering us an invaluable service and amazing support. You are somthing again and I dont know where we would be without you. My round again. To the press for their unflagging interest and taking this thing so far for us. Especially Hans and his team, Radio Shetland and John Johnston, Jonathan and his team at the Shetland Times and Malcolm Younger and his team at Shetland Televison - thanks cannot begin to cover it. If it were not for you we would never have gone national or international in the first instance. To all the national media - too many to mention but can I just single out Ken Banks at the BBC for his amazing contribution and Zoe and her team at GMTV for breaking the story nationally in the first instance, Rory (I know that's not how he spells it but he knows who I mean) at the Guardian and to all of you for your interest and, although only doing your jobs, given us the oxygen of publicity that this campaign so desperately needed. The SIC for their support so crucial for community credibility. To Chris and everyone sooth who gave up so much of their time to gather signatures and support the campaign in a national sense. Once a Shetlander always a Shetlander and you proved this - you were all amazing. Another round of drinks I owe. Cheap price to pay. And of course to the other thousands of you who have made this such an overwhelming and unprecedented campaign. You were everything. If not for you its certain it bandwagon would not have rolled the way it did. We will probably never be able to thank you all individually but be proud of yourselves from Unst to Fair Isle and all points in between. You moved the mountains and they were massive indeed. Thank you - I simply dont know what else to say. You have been inspirational in every sense of the word. You have put the name Shetland on the international map for sure and in the most positive fashion. Well I dont suppose you expected a short message so there we go. I make no apologies as usual. In the meantime why not make your way to Sumburgh for 4.30 today and welcome Sakchai etc back and kick things off from there. Have a dram or two into the bargain you more than deserve it and are well worth it one and all. I would of course love to be there but will do my own personal bit of liver damage at this end (drams flying at the moment anyway) Cheers to you all. As I say still work to be done for Sakchai and others as promised but for now just go for it and enjoy this just result. CHEERS!!!!!

Just to say not heard anything yet but still holding breath. Great news about the EDM - thanks again Polar Bear for everything in this respect and to all of you who have worked so hard to get the figure over the 100 - amazing!!! This will hopefully be a key element in the case along with the amazing community response which still seems to be growing. Have only very limited link to net at the moment but things should imporve again tomorrow when we get back to mainland Aus. Lets hope we are discussing some positive news or even good news who knows. Can I once again add my thanks to the guys at Shetlink for everything. Where would we have been without you. Glad you are getting the wider recognition you so very much deserve. Cheers for noo Davie

Hi everybody And thanks for all the great work still going on. Cheers again Polar Bear for all your over and above work and great to see the EDM is still growing strong. Will get a full retort to you all tomorrow hopefully, well most of you anyway, but suffice to say am keeping in touch with everything as best as I can. In Tasmania at the moment so internet access is pretty limited but keeping in touch with all the main players at the moment by phone if all else fails. I'm really glad the good luck rally went so well on Tuesday given that it was, of course a muc more personal thing than the previous one held in Clickimin. Just goes to show..... Press interest is still high and I've been doing interviews most of the week of and on with people like Radio Five Live, Radio 4 Today and twice for the BBC World Service which gives us global profile too. One interview was as part of a panel on the wider immigration issues so that seemed to give the the wider more incorporating angle that we have of course been discussing. Lets hope that this case, as we mentioned earlier and so often, can have wider spin off's for others too. From the content of the interview it seemed that this case had been a 'light bulb above the head' for many others so - result in that respect. I see the papers are still doing their bit too. The Observer did a great piece on Sunday and Lesley Riddoch had a good piece in the Herald today I'm told. More to come tomorrow and undoubtedly Saturday I am assured. Interest is still growing with Friday being so close so lets hope for the best there from all angles. I / we might be a few thousand mile away but our thoughts and hearts are very much with everyone, especially Satch of course and all fingers etc are crossed. Thanks to Montfield Man for keeping you up to speed with the eventual opening of the bank account and sorry for the unavoidable delay there. Good to have it all official. In the meantime thanks again so much to you all for everything and all the marvellous and ongoing, never-flagging support. We are not out of the woods yet but lets hope that there is some light at the end of this long and dark tunnel at least. As I say will get back to you all in more detail asap. In the meantime cheers everybody and fingers crossed. Finally just in case he's reading this - all the very best to you Sakchai for Friday. Me, Arlene, Michael and Richie are all holding our breath but equally believe that real justice MUST be done and we will soon have you home for good. That will be a great day I can assure you. Davie

Great news both of the 50p race and the petitions in the south and the EDM of course. Looks like everything is on track for Friday from our end of things anyway. In terms of the media I am doing a live with Radio Five Live tomorrow night (10am your time) and Radio 4 Today show goes out tomorrow I think. So the profile rises again as we get closer. Also had the Guardian and others on again so looking good for more national coverage. Caroline......I will do a quick mailshot to all the press tomorrow. Any of you have even a rough idea of the total to date from the first night collection to the latest fund raisers? Cheers again to you all.....

8O No problem with this Sam I am Davie Gardner and CarolineB is Caroline Bulter who is overseeing our fund raising element. You seem to know us both well enough anyway and now that's cleared up I'm sure if indeed you have nothing to be ashamed of or hide you will be able to do likewise

I did wonder about that. Alas, One's Government is not above dirty tricks - indeed dirty tricks are second nature to it. I have been thinking about the questions posed in various ways by Vailron, which can be boiled down to: Why are so many people supporting Sakchai, who have not supported previous campaigns? And - will the people supporting Sakchai support similar cases on the Mainland? (I presume Vailron meant the UK Mainland). It may be that Vailron is trying to act against the campaign - haven't made my mind up about that - but whatever his/her motives, these questions are valid. I can only respond for myself, but I think the answers are: 1 The absolutely fundamental one: Sakchai is NOT an immigrant, Thai passport (somewhere down the back of the dresser?) or not. If someone grows up in a place since the age of 10, that is where they are from. Hence the community, or a VERY large chunk of the community, is simply defending one 'of our own'. 2 - Scale. Shetland is small enough for social networks to operate in a way that is not possible in the more anonymous situation in the cities. Someone three houses down from my office in Edinburgh could be in the same situation as Sakchai - and I would never know. Doesn't mean that people in Enbra are less caring - it's just a different social set up. 3 - Case Specific: the potential injustice in this case is of such a grotesque level that it is impossible to ignore. E.g. a posse of God knows who, from God knows where, at God knows what cost to the public purse, secretly flew to Shetland and basically abducted this young man, incarcerated him entirely inappropriately in a high security jail and intend to deport him to the other side of the world. I, for one, do not wish to live in a country where people just 'disappear'. 4 - Principles of Justice. If someone does a wrong, in our society that they face punishment. Fair enough. ONCE. APPROPRIATELY (the punishment should fit the crime). The idea that, having paid the penalty for doing wrong, someone should, years later, face an additional, entirely different, penalty is just not on. I got a parking ticket circa 1997. £20 fine (b****d!); Did the 'crime'; paid the fine. 9 years ago. I do not now expect to find 8 huge coppers and a parking warden in my house at 5am tomorrow - who would then drag me off to Torquay or wherever to 'break rocks in the hot sun' - or otherwise impose an additional and different penalty - for the same 'crime'. And all to make the most thuggish Home Secretary in living memory look 'tough'. BAH! not on. 5 Principles of Justice 2. Blanket deportation of any and all 'foreigners' (defined as anyone who does not hold full UK citizenship, even if they have lived here since early childhood) who have served a prison term (irrespective of all other personal, family, etc factors, whether they have, or are ever likely to reoffend) is, to be blunt, racist pish. As Billy Butler said in the Shetland times: DISGUSTING! 6 - TBFTGOGGI - There but for the Grace of God go I. Cast the first stone, then, o perfect ones! If somene makes one silly drunken teenage mistake are they then to have their life destroyed? Will this mean that people campaigning for Sakchai will support other individuals, e.g. on the Yookay mainland, in the future? Don't know - some of the above are unique to this case, in this location. I still think that winning one (or more) high profile cases, where the wider public can 'put a human face on it' is worth any amount of standing in the rain outside Dungavel. Derick Well done Derik spot on as usual

Cheers again PB. Slowly but vedry surely. Well done yet again and will catch you soon.

Hi again Well done to everybody who's firing up the south end of the campaign this weekend and good luck to the 50p'ers - this afternoon. Ongoing as we speak. Its midnight here. Will be keen to hear how it goes.

Hi I'm personally glad to see this 'debate' is running out of the steam that has has driven it for the last two days and hopefully it now getting back on track. I suspect we are all being taken in by a fair proportion of mischief making which sadly can ruin relevant perhaps difficult questions being asked whatever 'side' they come from. I have hopefully tried to sort these from much of the nonsense written recently but its difficult to get it right every time. I hope the genuinely posted views and questions of relevance have been dealth with....the rest....well the less said the better. Peeriesookie. "welcome back" as someone said. The reason I have NOT answered many of your questions (which you may believe are relevant, and that of course is your right) is that I believe they are totally irrelevant in every sense of the word and that is my right as an individual too, arrogant or not. To ask what Satch brings to our community as a pretty ordinary individual in many respects, and expect to get some sort of definitive or measurable answer from any individual so you can base your thinking on it, almost beggers belief from either an informed or intellectual point of view. (whoops there I go being arrogant again) So sorry its not worth giving time to. Such questions have no logical substance or indeed answer so dont expect an answer from me. Ask a sensible question re the campaingn (and no they dont all have to be 'pro') and I am happy to give it the time of day, but I suspect knowing more about the realities of this subject and the person it concerns is not what you are really about anyway. You've had your 'fun' so now I will leave it at that. Re the Sam post. I did not name him nor his 'victim' in the e-mail episode for hopefully obvious reasons. I did publicly post his 'warning' to merely show how low these things can sink and to warn Sam off keeping up such an approach, also for his own good in the long run too, believe it or not. Sometimes these issues have to be done in this way to be totally effective - my own thoughts and decision - I may be wrong, but there you go. Sam says he did not do it. So be it, but believe me I would not have gone this far if I did not have proof and will only use this if ABSOLUTELY necessary i.e. if it continues. Even then it will not be used here, but in a much more 'official' way I can assure you. Sam - STOP PLAYING GAMES WITH ME / US. I detect a more sensible approach which I welcome. But please think back, you have continually asked what you think are difficult and searching questions (based on no real substance to be honest), and indeed some totally inappropriate one's, again without substance. Or, alternatively, you chose to air your personal views, a number of them pretty flippant and personally hurtful to those directly involved IO might add, especially about the management of the campaign fund. You have done this as if the fund structure, and the management of it, was some half thought out thing run by a pile of flippant, party-seeking individuals, when in fact it is being overseen by the Bank of Scotland and a number of totally trustworthy and independant individuals from across the local community who are committed to seing justice being done in this case. So no negative inroads for you there. Having failed in this particular approach you sought to have a personal go at me and another campaign member in the hope of finding achilles heals there, so even if the subjects you chose to cast up to us are entirely unrelated to the actual Sakchai campaign, it can be NO coincidence that they are only aimed at campaign members and nobody outwith it. I sincerly hope for everyone's sake this is the end of the matter and that if you have genuine issues to address, either with the campaign or on other un-related subjects, you can do so sensibly, openly and, of course, legally. I am sure if you had been GENUINELY hard done by by my approach, we would not have seen the much more sensible and rational approach you have chosen to adopt of late, but as I say thats only my personal observation and I welcome the new 'you' I have detected in recent posts Vailron Thanks for your posts and although I do not have the full picture of your own personal issues I do have sympathy with them from what little I can glean. And yes many of us have been active in these respects and others before, both in and out of Shetland, and sadly in some ways will no doubt be again, especially from now on. The reason we are probably concentrating so much on this particular case at the moment is the short time-scale and the amount of work that needs to be done both behind the scenes and in public between now and the hearing date. In addition we believe, or perhaps hope, this could be some kind of test case that might have much wider implications in the long run, especially to others who find themselves in the same boat, and therefore it might help others over and above Satch As to his UK citizenship status. He did have an unlimited time visa to stay here. Nobody pointed out either during the lead in to his trial, during the trial itself or his conviction, while he was in jail or since he came out that this would possibly be recinded through his actions. Complacency on his part? Perhaps so, but hey he's a young guy who was, in his opinion at least, very much part of the community he lived in and just "never got around" to making his perceived status official. Shame but there we go. Hopefully this answers your question. Now I really think this debate has run its course from my own standpoint so I will get back to the job in hand if you dont mind (and yes a bit of a long planned holiday too - even thought the timing could have been better from my own point of view) Cheers to all of you have given sensible perspective to this 'debate' which every 'side' you happen come from.

Iknow its a pun but that's the real point in a nutshell

The fight does go on and for your information we were all involved in that too. Legal advice at the time suggested that as the situation was, for the time being, stable then it would be better served to not ruffle any more political feathers and to keep things low key unless the time for direct action arose again. We have already committed ourselves to helping others as will become apparent but we have also been advised that we should concentrate on the short term matters in hand and then take others from there. Hope this helps

As I have said PS I dont think that answering any of your 'questions' are in any ways relevant to the campaign at hand and so I am not as I said going to waste valuable time on them. You wont of course agree with that but I cant for the life of me think what discussing the merits or not of Clickimin life guards etc has to do with anything so as I say apologies if I just leave you to your ramblings. Please yourself on this one too. Your defence of Sam etc on this site is admirable but I for one disagree, so I will leave it at that. What Sam did was the digital equivalent of a poison pen letter to a campaign member and his rantings are, although on an APPARENTLY different subject, are still aligned to this campaign. No coincidence it is me and Caroline B that are in his sights so I'm sorry if I have publicly offended him - not !!!! I may just have saved him from a worse situation but that is up to him to decide or not as the case may be.

Yes indeed

Interested enough to discuss the issues strongly with you so you can voice their opinion for them - but not bothered about the campaign. Too scared to join here - but not scared enough to claim their views are being silenced by the majority. Too busy to bother anyway, even for doing one post to publicly submit their opinion anonymously and again of no interest to them. Sorry I may be missing the point but none o this adds up to me!!!! If they are not interested why not just leave them out of it and put forward your own views and stop hinding behind their's all the time. I rest my case. Whitever du tinks peeriesookie. But here's somthing more arrogant then........ I would be happy to debate issues if they are worthwhile and of any merit whatsoever. I clearly know which side I am on and why. but to be honest what i have read to date here from the so called (maybe, maybe not) anti side is a total heap of worthless drivel (although I do have definate sympathies with Vailron if he is saying what I think he is) and I only have two regrets and one observation to arrogantly leave you with: I regret I took the bait in the first place and even bothered to speak up against you guys in the first instance but, rather than stir things up as you suggest, I felt I was merely answering back against a totally unreasonable and in my opinion worthless 'debate'. I should have know better but I dont regret anything said - tired or not. I regret that a real person with real feelings and emotions and living in our real and thankfully largely caring community (who by the way is NOT hogging any limelight - he only goes where he is invited) is being played with in this fashion for cheap 'debating' thrills and mischief making. No doubt he and those close to him will read this and I can only remind him, and them, that set against the OVERWHELMING support from the larger part of the community these kind of singular, vitriolic views are not even worth giving the time of day too. Have your 'anti' views if you will, they will exist and you are very much entitled to them and in the right context none of us would have any problem with that including Sakchai (remember he expected those and much more on his original return but nothing of any consequence materialised) but these views are petty and of no merit and add nothing of any worth to any real debate. Not that there has been one to date, although as I say I do have sympathies with Vailron. And finally I am ASHAMED that anybody reading this, especially from outside Shetland, might, even for one second, think that ANY of these views in any way represent any kind of majority 'anti' feeling in Shetland. I am very hopeful however they will not see it like that and,like most of us, treat them and this with the utter contempt they and it deserves. Its just a pity you have been given such a high profile public platform to spout them from - but thankfully that is democracy for you and thanks to the boys of Shetlink for quite rightly controlling the worst of them to date. Dont worry I can live with that 8O and whit wis da point o coming on dis thread tae stir things up, jist tae b****r aff again wance dat hus bin done? As i have said the reason that i b******d aff as you so eloquently put it is that the content of your so called debate had today sunk, in my humble opinion, to new levels of worthlessness and depravity and was no longer even worth giving the time of day to to read let alone answer. As I say I have no problem at all with anti-views but these were something else altogether and forgive me if I choose to totally ignore them and anyone posting them from now on in. I am not looking at everything through rose coloured glasses in my opinion nor am I saying that Satch is a saint but next to some of you guys he is Mother Teresa. Yours arrogantly and proud of it.........

i don't know whit dis email you refer to wis or whitever, but a public forum is not da place to voice this. 8O Wow pots and kettles come to mind!!! Thanks for this and now we can also add patronising to your long list of debating attributes.......However now I am being pedantic and so will leave it there You are certainly entitled to believe that, given that its been pretty much poor Sam and poor Segatrix etc but I gave this a lot of thought over two days before I decided to act. What Sam has done has taken his particular issues to a new level of depravity - personal, acrimonious and anonymous and that is just not on. If he choses to go this way, while still publicly saying that he 'kinda' supports the campaign and Sakchai, then I think its only right that that line be exposed for the sham it is. As I say I could have gone much further ( I could have reported or exposed him for instance) but hope that he reads enought into this to see sense and pull back before its too late. He will certainly not de-rail the campaign but he may de-rail himself. I have simply given him the chance to avoid this while still attempting to show his true side and beliefs - still leaving him generally under that cloak of anonimity,

I am calm I can assure you. I am going to bow out o this thread as there's little I can add to such a debate. The one thing that interests me is that all three of the descenting voices (I agree I am sure there are more out there) all seem to have similar approaches in that they all claim to be speaking to folk that are against the camapign etc and who are frightened to speak out publicly just in case. Well can I just ask all of you why you are not encouraging all these 'nameless' poeple to join the debate on this forum themselves in that case rather than you being the conduits for them. No difficulties at all with the counter arguments I can assure you (well some of them anyway) its just more a case of....... Yours suspiciously

Sorry could not agree less. Such a despicable act associated with a public campaign deserves public advertising. I could have gone much further I can assure you, but have chosen to ask him to think again and consider what he is doing and risking by such an approach.

Sadly they are true. Pity things have to sink to this level of depravity but rest assured debate is one thing breaking the law is another as this poster has already pointed out - now he goes and does the same. Not the same level of risk I agree but as sSam has said before the law is the law

How do YOU measure value to a community then? I woould think that 99.9 % of all folk in Shetland have some valuable assets that give them the right to live here and not face the sort of things Sakchai has had to face. What job you do etc etc seems to me to be an utterly irrelevant issue. I would struggle to come up with many names in Shetland who do not offer something of value to the community in one way or another.