spankybear

at the same point though, and i am in no way trying to detract away from this, but just raising an issue, i know of a few National charities that have tried fundraising events in shetland but were met with an overwhelming lack of support or help simply due to there not being a "local link" to the charity....ie, it didn't directly involve shetland such as CATS appeal etc which has taken over every fundraising appeal. the fact that a few of these were childrens charities which do have a link everywhere nationally points out how unwilling shetland can be to support anything that isn't local. i'm not saying don't support sakchai, but remember there are other charities out there that do far reaching work that people in shetland are not supporting

i know of somebody in glasgow that voted for their tory candidate simply because they knew them and felt they had worked so hard....even though the person didn't agree with a single tory policy but then she also voted for a single policy candidate which also baffle me

now, i have nothing against socialism, in principal anyway...it's a case of whether or not people can manage to stick to it thats the issue but there's just something about tommy sheridan that does my head in

as i said, that's ur opinion, and that's fine. i don't like them...nor any party never have voted doubt i ever will i don't like the idea of settling for a party cause they're the lesser of numerous evils, rather than because you whole heartedly support their policies but hey ho....one mans heaven is another mans hell

also, i never intended to imply that they are all the same and all prejudiced etc. i have stated a few times that they are not all like that. i know on a few times its come accross as if i meant that, but that was typo's. thought if i went back to edit it would look like i was covering my tracks, so thought i would try and tough it out. but the unfortunate thing is my experience has been disfavourable

njugle....should've expected that i've met quite a few, but then, i have stated before that not all of them are the same. but i'm not in support of any party that has anyone that has prejudicial, racist or discriminatory views all it takes is someone who has those views to get quite high up and they can have a hand in influencing things. as i said before, met alex salmond and was really put off by him.

as i have stated before, i'm not interested in what their official policies say. i have come into contact with a number of snp members and supporters, and all apart from 2 were deeply racist and prejudiced, most notably against the english (though also americans, most likely due to recent international events) i would have more respect for them if they were honest about how they felt. party policy doesn't always reflect personal policy. i would much rather deal with what i have experienced for myself to influence my opinion, than rely on what i am told to believe. would you say that what the labour party claims to be and what it actually is are one in the same thing?

i started using semantics, cause everyone else was bleating on about it, so why shouldn't i but really....offensive???? i think not

I would really love to be able to let this one go.......but I just can't. You're rubbishing the argument you've been making throughout this thread now, spankybear. No, personal experience cannot negate fact. The opposite is true. And you have not been arguing on a factual basis. All we have to go on are party policies. We cannot deal with the personal opinions of individual party members because we don't know what they are. This is true for any political party. It is true for Labour, it's true for the Tories and it's true for the SNP. The SNP do not have racist policies. In this respect, they are nothing like the BNP, which was the original point of this discussion. the point i was making was personal experience does not negate fact, but it can influence opinion, of which this and any forum is there to allow people to express. there are differences between the 2 parties, but i do not feel its that much. the snp simply don't discriminate against through colour etc. or sorry, that should probably be a number of members of the snp don't discriminate through colour etc (although, no doubt, some of them probably do)

on this point, having looked through, peeriewife has posted 3 times, one of which was to get a thread back on topic, 2 others were on this thread asking a question, nothing more. how is she being offensive? i have posted on 2 threads, my intent has never been to cause offense. i won't deny on occasions i have taken offense, but that's due to the fact that on occasions people have attacked my point of view...not everyone, but some people have. of course if i feel my opinion is being attacked i'm gonna be defensive, but i do not see what i have done to offend others? enlighten me

on a further potentially dangerous point: the nazi party were a lot less brutal before they came into power than they were when they had attained it. ok, they weren't angels either, but they did get worse. i am not saying that the snp are neo nazi's, but official party lines do not always reflect the core of a party

it's as i've said, i don't mind people having a difference of opinion. that's always gonna happen...otherwise the world would be a far more peaceful place...but as long as they accept that it is just opinion. everyone looks at whatever is presented to them and processes it differently obviously i have had differing encounters with the snp than EVERYBODY else on here but does personal experience negate fact? again, i doubt anybody here personally experienced the black death era but we all accept it happened. we didn't need personal experience for that (over compensating now so as not to offend anyone see, did it again)

Race: group of people, animals, or plants connected by common descent alternative words: breed, clan, ethnic group, family, folk, genus, kind, lineage, nation, people, species, stock, tribe, variety - Oxford Dictionary and Thesaurus A nation is a race as well. Race: Anthropolgy. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race. - answers.com (I studied anthropology and moral philosophy and uni) also, a 'geographic subdivision'. what is that if not in terms of where you are from? An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgement or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are not falsifiable. - Wikipedia As I said, you cannot say i AM wrong, just that you BELIEVE i am wrong. there have been plenty of cases of racist (I am using that term correct) remarks by members of the SNP, so i can quite happily state that i BELIEVE i am justified in MY opinion. at some point people strongly believed the world was the centre of the universe, and that opinion was proven wrong, so likewise, you have to accept the possiblity that perhaps i am correct and you are wrong

plucker...when exactly have i been offensive??? and again, nobody can say i am wrong. you can say that you FEEL i am wrong, which i will accept, as that is your opinion. what i do not appreciate is the outright claim that i AM wrong. i defy anybody to be any different.

as i said, can anyone say i am wrong???? Opinion: An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgement or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are not falsifiable. Just because it is not the party's OFFICIAL line, does not mean that they don't have any right wing members or opinions. again, why is it that just because someones opinion is not the same as everyone elses then they have to be attacked as if wrong??? Likewise, plenty of BNP supporters would argue that they are not racist, they are just pro britain. and, Mcfly, why is it you claim to be attempting to read between the lines in the media, yet incapable of reading between the lines on anything else. there HAVE been cases of members of the SNP having racist, xenophobic and prjudiced ideas, yet because the OFFICIAL line states that this isn't the case, then none of them are guilty of this. Race: group of people, animals, or plants connected by common descent alternative words: breed, clan, ethnic group, family, folk, genus, kind, lineage, nation, people, species, stock, tribe, variety so i am sorry styles....BUT THERE IS AN ENGLISH RACE, SO IT IS RACIST. on what grounds exactly were you claiming that it wasn't?

and politics is never shrouded in contreversy and double crossing etc. also from wikipedia: "From almost the instant the party was born, there have been ideological tensions present within the SNP. This was by and large a product of the way in which the party was formed, as an amalgamation of the left-wing National Party of Scotland, and the right-wing Scottish Party. The tensions were resolved in some way by the party officially taking no clear stance on the left-right issue." So yeah, no right wing potential there at all

rather than picking random points on my posts and arguing on them can you read the whole thing. as i pointed out WHEN DID I SAY THEY WERE EXACTLY ALIKE???? people refer to the point of semantics, and then ignore the actual words used anyway. and how head in the sand do you have to be to claim that there is no history of xenophobia or racism in scotland. I've lived all over scotland and come accross it everywhere i've been. if you haven't experienced it, then fine, but how can you claim it most definately doesn't exist???? I have met Alex Salmond on a couple of occasions, and he is not an english loving man. also, why is it on this site, if somebody has an opinion that others don't agree with, they are attacked as if wrong. IT IS OPINION. i do not see the point of the SNP, i disagree completely with their aims and hopes and I fail to see the point of independence. Or are we to go back to feudal law? in these times of international dispute, it makes much more sense to continue on the road of uniting nations, not carving them up. or are we to expect scotland to join the nuclear race so as to defend its borders? racism: Discrimination or prejudice based on race. how is this not the correct term. How many times have you heard the phrase 'english b****rd'? if this isn;t a racist comment, what's the point of using the word english? why not just b****rd? and if there is no xenophobia or racism in scotland, then why is the BNP starting to be taken seriously within Scotland as well now. Aberdeen in recent years have had BNP candidates running in local elections when, once upon a time, this would never have been tolerated within the city. but yeah, we all love each other

and where is all this wealth and money going to come from? answer me this one question....why do we need autonomy? and one could argue that NOT noticing the similarities between the two parties is naive. i was going to say how many people that vote for the SNP actually pay attention to what their policies are and what people within that party are saying before supporting the party....but that's true of most voters for all parties. How many people actually vote through a well researched thought process and not just because of how they PERCEIVE a party to be. as for the SNP, don't look at what they claim to be for, look at their history (born out of a far right party's unification with a left party, and initial problems were resloved by ignoring the left side) and LISTEN to what a number of it's party members say. they are often in trouble for spouting racist, xenophobic remarks on issues, and ALex Salmond NEVER reprimands them for this.

personally, i don't see a big lot of difference, it's down to a case of what is socially acceptable. it's frowned upon to be anti black, muslim, jew etc (and rightly so), yet for a vast number of people in this country (Scotland), it seems socially acceptable to be viciously anti English. Don't hide behind the bull that it's all about political independance for Scotland, it's simply a case of "let's get those English b*****ds out of OUR country." If it wasn't steeped in abject hatred of our southern neighbours, why does everyone interested in Scottish autonomy harps on about all the attrocities we've had to suffer at the hands of the English, yet turn a blind eye to all the benefits we have had (as all the home nations have had) by being part of a united nation. the BNP are evil, vile people with hatred pumping through their veins, but at least their honest about how they feel, rather than hiding behind rhetoric. If Scotland did get independence, we would be f***ed as a lot of our income and finance would be gone, and, as for the oil, don't think that we'd get to keep that. It's not Shetland or Scottish companies that are drilling and own the resources that are working on the oil fields. We get subsidies, we don't get the profit. Even that would potentially be in doubt. The oil is not ours to barter with. evry time something goes wrong or whatever, the SNP are instantly in their blaming it all on the English and their 'foreign' government. They are just as xenophobic as the BNP, we just turn a blind eye, as we deem it is working in our favour. Yet how would we feel if all the ex pats now living in England were thrown out of their because the english didn't want them? we'd be up in arms, yet that's what the SNP are pretty much wanting done to the English. The argument against this 'foreign' government is pointless anyway, what with the amount of high ranking scots within the corridors of power. Don't get me wrong, the English aren't innocent. They're just as bad with the racist regard towards the likes of the French and Germans. But how can anyone harp on about the racist bile spouted out by the BNP, while condoning a more subtle, but just as dangerous form of prejudice being carried out by the SNP? The BNP constitution states that the party 'stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people'. Swap British for Scottish. and how exactly is this different from what the SNP claim?