VictorandJack

I know this discussion was some what inspired by my comments on the AGM forum but I hope everyone realises I am not backing the creation of a Parish league. I was really trying to point out that when the masses are not happy they inevitably come up with their own solution, rightly or wrongly. Wheesht has a point regarding officials etc but he should not be fooled into thinking this will restrict the creation of other competitions. The SFA is an association made up of reps from the clubs, many of which are duplicated at the PC meetings and to think co-operation between the associations is anything less than a MUST is niave or bullish.

"What about those players that played in the B league last year that DO want to raise their game and play against the best players in Shetland every week?" As far as I am aware nobody has stopped them before and they are free to play for anyone. Many Unst and Yell players have played for A-league teams in the past but it should be noted they are in the minority. The reality is that the new proposals are unsustainable. The fixtures problems being number one. Unst't declining population and students leaving the isles altogether are all being considered. The players involved in Junior county will also be withdrawn by their Shetland Manager. There are other problems which I can't be bothered to explain. I hope this season goes well and EVERYONE enjoys it and complete their fixtures schedule. But don't be surprised if the following winter brings more discussions and disputes, especially from those struggling to put a team on the pitch. Oh, please read the entries earlier on the forum where it has already been established why Northern Rovers cannot happen at the moment.

Here's a prediction for you Getawinner! The players who were happy playing B League standard football last year may "raise their game" for a season. They will try their best to complete this years fixtures as they have agreed to. Next winter, the majority of players will want to go back to a lower standard, where they were happy. If the SFA continues with the current stance of demanding all teams enter the A League most of the above mentioned players will play works league, start their own competetion (ie Parish League) or inevtabley give up playing altogether. Those who enjoy "going through the motions" are part of Shetland football even if you don't want them to be. The B league had 11 teams last year, multiply that by a minimum squad of 18 = 198 players who are "going through the motions.

Anyone "genuinly" interested in achieving a realistic football format for Shetland should read the Development review carried out by the ScottishFA. It contains many issues which shetland mirrors on a smaller scale. Community clubs appear to be the way forward which we generally have (or try to have) in shetland already. Any format must be "totally inclusive" of all ages AND abilities. common problems are: Junior players dropping out of the system before seniors. Shortage of volunteers Lack of qualified coaches Poor retention of Referees I am not implying that the report is accurate for Shetland but some comparisons can be made. The mistake made in last years consultation was that some believed they could force clubs, players and volunteers to do asthey wished to "increasethe standard of football". This is the fatal flaw. Any changes must bring everyone onboard. (including clubs with one team)

Yell appear to have been in disaray in comparison with Unst over the past few years. Apparently Unst could have been in similar disaray had it not been for Geoffrey Priest taking up the reigns when he did. Unst owe him a lot for his work getting a team on the pitch every week and organising the club. You are bang on about the junior team. it Has been mainly unst volunteers who have made that happen. What everyone should realise is the massive commitment made by anyone managing/coaching at any level, especially in the Isles. I have heard some Lerwick based officials discussing the difficulty in finding willing volunteers due to the level of commitment required. If you are a coach in the isles you can double it. A Northern Rovers CLUB with teams at all age groups simply will not attract the volunteers required to make it successful at the moment.

Northern Rovers will happen in the future if both groups of players and clubs want that. I think we have established that this season is not the time as Unst prefer to have a go themselves. As I have pointed out previously, their are many practical obstacles which MUST be overcome through discussion and ORGANISATION by both clubs. This is a long way off at the moment as far as I can see. As regards this season, it could be tough for both sides but I think if they keep their best team on the pitch that Unst might just do OK? Yell may struggle a bit more as they probably have less on the bench. If Yell really feel their is a possibility they won't fulfill their fixtures they must act before the season starts. If they start but cannot complete the season they will attract serious criticism from the SFA ( especially the fixtures secretary).

"So it's not a hard and fast "no"?" To what? Please explain Spence7?

I know a panel studied shetland football and had the Scottish FA Rep up last year but I think a more practical approach has to be adopted. The previous format suited the vast majority of players allowing all communities to complete at some level. It could not have been too far off the mark. The main issue was the lack of top division teams and lack of players wanting to play in that league. The best way to increase these numbers is to develop players at juvenile level. Consultation with the JuniorSFA must be stepped up to increase the number of JUNIOR players, provide more coaching, help players make the transition from junior to senior football, attract volunteers and provide the necessary funding. The current JSFA do a fantastic job but I am sure would be glad of any assistance. I am sure the knock on affect will be significant.

Your getting closer to the mark stoichkov. Your point about Deltings success being related to their players wanting to play their "careers" with Delting is accurate. Nobody really wants to go and play for another club. You are also accurate regarding the Unst players wanting to play in the same team, not "strictly" Unst. They clearly have a strong unit which has performed above expectations. (The people of Unst do understand the problems of a dropping population) Also, the venue for matches is a huge stumbling block. Everyone in unst wants their home matches in Baltasound. Something which causes problems for the SFA when setting fixtures. Hence the reason so many would not be sad to see the end of Unst FC. It is a shame the panel who spent a year devising the new associaion etc took the attitude that "someone may have to be sacrificed". Quote from one member of the panel.

A delting split is numerically possible but ONLY and I reitterate ONLY if they wish to. Delting have done very well over the years and have made the most of their rising/large population. They should not be penanlised for their successes. It would not solve the so called problems.

spencey7!! I know you were away in NZ and were clearly not at the meeting but your clubs representitive was!! I have already stated the facts. I should perhaps point out that the meeting being held was an emergency meeting where if no agreement had been met It was clearly stated that there would be no organised SFA football in shetland. A years consultation had already passed. I'm sorry it happened too but to attempt to put any criticism towards the Unst and Burra reps is very ill informed as anyone present will tell you.

Thats the crucks of it Digby. Its a shame some people in Shetland are getting to far ahead of themselves after winning the island games. Those players did very well, the U18's did well last season aswell. BUT they are not he majority in shetland football. Its easy for some to say that this attitude is not driving up the standard but it does keep many more people of all ages playing football and enjoying it.

spence7 I'm affraid digby was correct. You are correct that your Yell Rep did not go to the meeting asking to be entered into the top division. BUT during the long running emergency meeting he "argued" that all teams should go into the top division, as did whitedale. Unst and Burra made their pitch and the room was pretty much split. Both whitedale and Yell reps made the point that it was UNST and BURRA who were not willing to move up under the new format. As the Unst reps were aware of their players views, they new that if worst came to worst they would accept the step up for one season. That was the wish of their clubs majority. Yell were obviously not that organised I'm sorry but thats the facts.

Classic misconception Gaffer. "The communities have to be big enough to support all levels of football, if not then it will almost certainly be detremental to the community." Tosh in the extreme. Unst did not have any juvenile football until recently when a group of youngsters came through together. In this time they have produced many decent footballers at junior and senior level, nevermind their obvious Parish Cup successes at Both Senior and U21's. Your lack of understanding as to how a juvenile player from the isles gets football experience is not uncommom. Most Have been through the Hostel and play U15's and U18's. By this time they are also playing senior football. If Unst cannot feild a juvenile team (as previous) they will play for other teams until senior level. Its both sensible and practical. The only thing detrimental to these communities is having no representitive football team at all, which it seems you would see happen in a flash for the benefit of "Shetland Football".

Yes, club loyalty is definately a factor. However, if you are that good you should be it the top division. If your team does not have a squad to compete in the top division you have a decision to make. If your team does have a squad with several A-League players then you should be trying to move the club upwards, for a short time at least. In the end, it comes down to the vote.

John Johnson is quite correct in saying he will not pick anyone playing in the B-League for the County - no matter how good they are. If you want to play for Shetland you must play at the highest level available in shetland. Anything other would make the league format a joke. Markj, i am sure Kirsty was not referring to the B-Team idea. Perhaps she will clarify?

I assume you are using the Scottish FA description of community clubs, where you have the increasing age groups upto senior. If so, you should note that the SFA rep who was up last year also pointed out the need for varying standards at senior level. Afterall, not all youngsters participating up through the juvenile age groups reach the same level. You should also except that Unst, Yell, Burra are all Communities in the REAL meaning of the word. Part of that is having football, badminton, squash, swimming ...etc...etc...teams. These communties participate and compete very well due to the hard work by parents etc and the development of youngsters. The lerwick clubs, Whalsay, Whitedale. Delting, Scalloway, Ness "are considered community clubs by the Scottish FA already. As for the clubs without their own (not combined) junior sides being cast into the works league, the works league clubs have clearly stated from the outset that any new format involving them tarvelling out of lerwick will not be realistically considered.

Point well made Gaffer Some of the SFA (SENIOR) seem to be oblivious to who are making up the teams in the isles. Many are U-16's and Under 18's. Both have their own matches to fulfill. This seasons fixtures will be a nightmare for the organisers and the association must bare in mind that many A-League players this year will also be playing Junior football. It will certainly cause problems. Lets hope the SFA will change its philisophy and provide football for all ages and abilities across the full length and breadth of Shetland in 2008

Be careful not to confuse undoubted potential with the finished product. Ross Irvine, Eric Thomson, Niel Laurenson and any other at that age group with potential should be involved earlier. And no, anyone playing in last years B-League would struggle to make the senior squad.

Spot on spencey7 Their are big player shifts happening and likely to happen before the season starts. I hear Thistle are struggling. Whitedale will be a force this year as they were last. Good luck to them as they are a well organised club at all levels/ages. Lerwick based players are opting for the Works League. Most have left B teams (thats their desired standard) and instead of sticking with their club, have opted for regular football. Its understandable. Most of this was put to the SFA reps at the time but a votes a vote.

Depends what is considered to be successful. I believe Unst are trying to tempt a few players out of retirement to make up numbers and bridge the gap between A/B's. This could possibly result in an "apparently" successful season compared with one without these players. Theoretically, Burra and Yell can do the same and at the end of the season they have competed well in the league. Sounds OK, but the following year these players will not be there. The numbers for all teams vary especially due to students leaving the isles and work commitments etc. I beleive, if a team copes in the A-League (ie. does not lose majority of games by 5 goals or more) they will continue to play at that level if they can produce a similar team the following season. If not, they should be permitted to drop a division in the search of new youngsters to make up the numbers. If those youngsters then do not exist, the next step is to fold or merge. Putting teams into leagues for the the sake of numbers is only likely to discourage youngsters. The SFA must look at each season individually with "common sense". We all want a decent format which provides football for everyone at all standards. As regards Reading...this is not pro football we are organising here with massive amounts of cash for losers as well as winners.

The B-League and the Works League have been the best places for a young footballer to play if all they want is a game with a chance of playing at least a half. Most footballers fall into this category due to age, fitness (lack of), poor ability, irregular availibilty etc. Unfortunatley the SFA constitution mentions the development of football to reach as high a standard as possible. It does not make participation, enjoyment and socialising a priority. Until now the top division has clearly been more suited to those who wish to train and take their sport more seriously. People vote with their feet and in time those in the more "enjoyment" category will end up in the works league, B-league or PUB again.

Glad we agree on that spencey7. This season needs to be seen as a trial season only. Don't let the SFA turn this around to be the future of fitba in Shetland. This must be done by clear representation at the monthly meetings from now until the end of this season. No decision of change made by the association needs to result in a club folding completely. Unfortunately we are too late for this season.

There's no "lack of understanding" in Yell whitsoever! As things stand, we will enter da A league in April. Interesting to hear that Yell are now organised and will be fulfilling their fixtures this season. As spencey7 indicated earlier, they won, lost and drew against Unst last season and are in no way an inferior team. Unst appear to have been very clear from the start that they did not feel a merger was the way forward for them this season, even with a weak squad, as this would spell the end of UNST FC. Yell, who also feared the same fate originally, still have the WILL to try and force Unst into the Northern Rovers situation. If a club wants to go it alone NOBODY should force their hand, including the SFA. The situation is exactly the same for Burra and Scalloway. Mergers should only happen when BOTH clubs have a desire to do so and with no outside interference.

The sensible approach to the problem was for whitedale and Burra to step up to the A-League. I can totally understand the reasons why Burra are not willing due to lack of numbers etc. If Both teams moved up and Unst were considered Burra's B team and Yell, Whitedales B team the league numbers would have been balanced. The better Unst and Yell players would have played PRIMARILY A's and the remainder competed in the B-League supported by anyone willing to play at the lower standard. The Fixtures would have been a doddle and two competitive Leagues would have been created. All proposals will have problems, some more than others. Where there is a GENUINE will ther is a way.