Referendum on Britain's membership of the EU

[Styles]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6995032.stm

 

I see the Liberal democrats are saying they would like a referendum on being a member of the EU.

 

If there were such a thing what would you vote?

 

Do you think the EU now has to much power or do you think we should intergrate more?

[Ghostrider]

I've yet to be convinced we did the right thing going in in the first place, and remember too a majority in the Northern and Western Isles voted to stay out.... Maybe we'd have been no better/worse off today had we retained the pre-'73 status quo, and maybe we'd have been much better off. Taking a step back all I see is how much the UK has lost since '73, we no longer have steel, coal or car manufacturing industries, and fishing and argiculture are both looking like pretty sickly waifs compared to pre-'73....maybe they'd have gone to the wall anyway, but maybe not. To make a judgement call on that would take a great deal of research and evaluation.... It just seems our co-partners of '73 have lost much less of those same industries than we have though.

 

That said, I'm not sure if, seeing we've gotten ourselves as far entangled in to Europe as we have, if it's either sensible, or even entirely possible to back away without causing chaos that would largely destroy us. Originally it was an Economic argeement, if we really had to have anything at all, it should have been left at that, the manipulation that has gone on ever since has long since created a United States of Europe in just about everything but name. The result of which is a very uneasy union. At least the original United States was one nation subdivided in to state units, and that system has stood the test of time, Europe has done it backwards by taking, by stealth, a collection of invividual long established nations and trying to meld them in to one coherent nation, it's been a rocky road, and I can only see it becoming rockier.

[Styles]

I think we should leave to get total control of our own country. Its stoness that we will be worse off as do you really think countries will stop tradeing with us if we do? I think not. Look at Switzerland and the scandinavien countries, some of the highest standards of living in the world and the happiest people and not in the corupt EU and they dont want to be.

[islandhopper]

Sorry, Styles, which Scandinavian countries? Danmark, Sweden and Finland are full members of the EU with Finland being a full member of the Euro zone, too, Sweden bound by the Maastrich Treaty to become a full member of the Euro zone and only Danmark rejected to become a member of the Euro zone.

 

Switzerland: Right, formally it is not a member of the EU but we do have the bilateral EU-Swizz-Treaties I & II defining the status of Switzerland as 'to be considered as a member' with regard to nearly all economic and social aspects - including the European customs union, the Schengen or Dublin agreements and including the Swizz share to the funding of the EU extension to eastern Europe (Erweiterungsbeitrag or Contribution à l’élargissement). So what?

 

Of course nobody would stop trading with Scotland should you ever leave the EU - but things would become more difficult and thus in the end more expensive. Actually there is a lot of complaints about beaurocratism but just look at the actual treatmant of the MFD affair: Being in the EU it is difficult to work out how to react but you are entitled to make use of the full set of rules incl. the definition of exemptions - that's to say Shetland farmers are allowed to carry the lambs to the Scottish mainland. Not being a member you would have to stay on the other side of the closed door and you simply would have to wait until the Brussel bureaucracy will react and might open it again - may be March or May next year but by then the farmers would be bancrupt without getting EU subsidies or refunding for the culling losses in the worst of case!

[Styles]

Sorry i ment Norway.

 

Least being out the Eu would give us back all our fishing areas, that alone would be worth leaving.

[islandhopper]

Not sure about that, Styles ... unfortunately ...

 

You would of course get back the area where you might fish according to your own rules as long and as much as you want. That's not the problem.

 

The problem simply is: Where to land and sell a catch that is not in accordance with either the EU overall take out quota and / or the EU import quotas ?

To the US in the west, Russia in the east, none EU associated African states in the south ?

 

Even for your farmed fish (let it be salmon, white fish or mussels) you would have to queue in line with all the other countries exporting fish to the EU.

 

So, what might it be worth to get the area back but risking possible advantages for market access instead ?

No change with regard to EU bureaucratism - you would just have to talk to different officials of the same kind - but with an unknown amount of costs for market development with potential competitors like Norway and Iceland being are far ahead of you.

[sheepshagger]

Norway Iceland and the Faroe's all have trade agreements with the EU but are not subject to the sprootle that we have to put up with, ie Danish boats able to fish in our waters with 15mm nets and take cod as a by catch our fishermen using 120mm + nets and having to dump cod.

when the french farmers dont like something it ends up getting burnt at the side of the road while their police stand around watching, The french government may be fined for this but they ignore these fines and damn all happens. hells teeth they even want to let turkey join, no suprise really as they are about as corrupt as they come.

but consider this TB took us to war for among other things the treatment of the Kurdish people by Iraq, Ive watched the bodies of Kurds floating down the Euphrates river and it was turkey that was up stream from me not Iraq. (And before you ask the Kurds dressed differantly from the arabs thats how we knew who they were).

so for me its a matter of getting out as fast as we can from a legally and morrally corrupt system.

[sheepshagger]

Not sure about that, Styles ... unfortunately ...

 

You would of course get back the area where you might fish according to your own rules as long and as much as you want. That's not the problem.

 

The problem simply is: Where to land and sell a catch that is not in accordance with either the EU overall take out quota and / or the EU import quotas ?

To the US in the west, Russia in the east, none EU associated African states in the south ?

 

Even for your farmed fish (let it be salmon, white fish or mussels) you would have to queue in line with all the other countries exporting fish to the EU.

 

So, what might it be worth to get the area back but risking possible advantages for market access instead ?

No change with regard to EU bureaucratism - you would just have to talk to different officials of the same kind - but with an unknown amount of costs for market development with potential competitors like Norway and Iceland being are far ahead of you.

 

if you guys dont buy it then someone else will, havent you heard there is a huge market for fish products, and seeing how the french spannish etc have fished their own waters to extinction and they would no longer be able to do the same to our waters they would be first in the cue, as long as someone else doesn't put in a higher bid of course

[JAStewart]

Stay in the EU

 

how can you unite people by seperating them?

[Ghostrider]

^^^ Why would we want to be united? The original theory, in theory, like Greenheatman's theory, appeared to possibly have potential, but the practice hasn't quite lived up to the hype after nearly 35 years of trying....

[JAStewart]

We want to be united because that helps stop war.

 

Think about why Britain is good mates with USA.

[Ghostrider]

We want to be united because that helps stop war.

 

Think about why Britain is good mates with USA.

 

I don't follow the logic behind that conclusion at all. If one or more nations behave in such a manner as fall out with one or more others, it won't make a tuppence worth of difference whether the parties are within or without the EU. Possibly there's a lessened risk of nation(s) behaving in a manner which annoys due to pressure for other members, but if one or more are hell bent on a certain course of action nothing will stop them, especially not so called unions, treaties, agreements or whatever.

 

Check out 1930's Germany, "peace in our time" and all that.

 

It also has the potential of making any war bigger than it would otherwise have been, within any union the pressure upon other union members to take one side or the other is much higher, and neutrality much more difficult to achieve.

 

The USA/UK is a whole different ball game, both historically and in practice, if the relationship existed simply to keep the peace, I strongly suspect the UK would now be one of the 50 whatever United States, and not one of the allegedly United something or others of Europe.

[sheepshagger]

We want to be united because that helps stop war.

 

Think about why Britain is good mates with USA.

 

never heard of the american civil war then