Shetlanders - an indigenous people?

[Freyr]

Has the ILO Convention (No. 169) concerning Indigenous and Tribal Peoples in Independent Countries been ratified by the UK?

http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/62.htm

 

It states that an indigenous people is

 

(a)Tribal peoples in independent countries whose social, cultural and economic conditions distinguish them from other sections of the national community, and whose status is regulated wholly or partially by their own customs or traditions or by special laws or regulations;

 

( Peoples in independent countries who are regarded as indigenous on account of their descent from the populations which inhabited the country, or a geographical region to which the country belongs, at the time of conquest or colonisation or the establishment of present State boundaries and who, irrespective of their legal status, retain some or all of their own social, economic, cultural and political institutions.

 

2. Self-identification as indigenous or tribal shall be regarded as a fundamental criterion for determining the groups to which the provisions of this Convention apply.

 

The convention commits states to

 

Promoting the full realisation of the social, economic and cultural rights of these peoples with respect for their social and cultural identity, their customs and traditions and their institutions;

 

It also states that

 

In applying national laws and regulations to the peoples concerned, due regard shall be had to their customs or customary laws.

 

Any opinons?

[Rasmie]

I remember some years ago, someone in Scotland tried to make a case for the the crofting peoples of Scotland to be declared an ethnic group, and as such re-claim land etc, stolen from them by the Scottish/British Royalty and given out to favoured people e.g. minor royalty and aristocrats. Similar to Maori and Native American claims?

[trout]

Being an interest topic I thought I would have a peerie hock and see what I could see.

 

The nearest document detailing anything is:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmintdev/79/79we37.htm

 

I noted that a Mr McNamara had questioned whether it had been ratified in 2001 to the House of Commons. Though have now gone and lost that link. Dirt!

 

Anyway, check out this site for more info regarding the above in the Commonwealth:

 

http://www.cpsu.org.uk/projects/CHOGM_20.HTM

[Freyr]

I have just had time to skim these pages, but they seem interesting in many respects. Shetland has a distinct culture and language (it all depends on how you define it) and that the "population descends from the populations which inhabited the country, or a geographical region to which the country belongs, at the time of conquest or colonisation or the establishment of present State boundaries". So it depends on how you see it but the definitions of this convention fit Shetland quite well.

 

If the UK is commited to improving the rights of indigenous peoples around the world (as indicated in the link provided by trout) they should do the same at home.

 

That could in practice get Shetlanders more influence on the mangement of local resources such as fish and oil. In addition to getting more support for preserving local heritage and culture.

[islandhopper]

If the UK is commited to improving the rights of indigenous peoples around the world (as indicated in the link provided by trout) they should do the same at home.

Right ... but it is Scottish Executive beeing not able or unwilling to give the same legal status to both tongues, the Gaelic and Scots, not to mention Shetlan ... just to talk about one aspect which would not cost so dear than giving up fishing or land managment rights ...

[Seahorse]

It seems to me that the government have a 'do as I say not as I do' attitude to many things.

 

An issue in the news eenoo is the House of Lords and the vote for reform the Lords to elected rather than appointed members. Tony Benn was on radio2 and put a fine point "we have troops fighting in Iraq for democracy yet we have a government which is partly appointed"

 

I would like to see change in Shetland, it is a unique culture with a fasinating history.

[Freyr]

Well it seems to me that applying the term indigenous people to Shetlanders would be one way of putting preassure on central government to hand over more power to Shetland itself. If that is what Shetland wants.

 

At the same time it might be difficult to get many people to go along with this as the term indigenous people is in many people's minds connected to "primitive tribes", "indians" in America and aboriginals in Australia. Others might think it would aleniate those who are not born from a familiy with long history in Shetland. In reality intermarriage and migration is not a problem when defining an indigenous people. All populations have that.

[Tom]

Well part of the political will to push through the Zetland County Council Act of 1974 was based on seeing Shetland's culture as a minority entity that needed special attention to mitigate against oil-related social disruption.

[trout]

A continuation of this topic ...

 

Crofters go for “tribal” status

Originally posted here on 22 February, 2008

 

CROFTERS in the Highlands and Islands are to put their case to be considered the region’s indigenous people by the United Nations in a bid to gain more self determination for their way of life.

 

The Scottish Crofting Foundation is launch a report at the Scottish Parliament next week which examines what benefits such a move would bring to those working the land in the far north of the country.

 

Specifically the SCF is looking to see a democratically elected Crofters Commission to be put in charge of its affairs and to be given protection such as that afforded to the Sami people of northern Norway and Finland.

 

Iain MacKinnon, who has been researching the project, said crofters had a strong case to be classed indigenous people under international law. “If the United Nations recognise that status, the UK would have to pay attention to the group rights that such classification entails,” he said.

 

"One central plank of the indigenous peoples' movement has been the right to self-determination on issues which relate specifically to their way of life.

 

"The call by politicians from across the different parties for devolution of power within the Highlands

and Islands on regional issues has already raised this issue in a Scottish context and Liberal Democrat MSP John Farquhar Munro's call for a democratically elected Crofters Commission provides an example of how this devolution could begin in practice."

 

SCF chief executive Patrick Krause said: "This is an exciting development which breaks new ground in our understanding of how crofting and Highland culture in general should be represented – and who should represent it.

 

"Other historically oppressed groups, such as the Norwegian Sami, have made good use of international law to win a greater say in how their culture is defined within the wider context of their relationship with the nation state that is now their home, and which has also become an important part of their identity.

 

"I think it is important to stress that the implications of this project are not confined to crofting alone. The Highlands and Islands has rich and varied cultural, musical and linguistic traditions which are more often rooted in crofting and fishing areas.

 

"The SCF believe that if the bearers of that culture – which is a central part of Scottish cultural identity – are given the opportunity to participate more fully in the determination of its future direction it will help in the revitalisation of the Highlands and Islands – strengthening confidence and belief in this distinctive and valuable way of life."

[ArabiaTerra]

The thing is, you can buy a croft, live on it and work it and that makes you a crofter but if you move to Norway and buy a herd of reindeer, does that make you a Sami?

 

Edit: What I mean is, I thought you had to be born into an indigenous tribe?

[Njugle]

Took the words right out of my mouth....erm....keyboard.

 

Many crofters are already 'immigrant' and so to set realistic rules on the indigenous label may be a nightmare. Some crofters i know of have been so for more years than i know of, but moved to shetland prior to becoming so.

[Trønder]

I think trying to become a crown dependency would be a better path for Shetland.

[Freyr]

The thing is, you can buy a croft, live on it and work it and that makes you a crofter but if you move to Norway and buy a herd of reindeer, does that make you a Sami?

 

Edit: What I mean is, I thought you had to be born into an indigenous tribe?

 

In Norway you are a sami in a social context if you consider yourself to be a sami. In political context for the purpose of voting in sami parliament elections, you have to consider yourself sami, have a parent, grand parent or great grand parent who speak/spoke sami at home. So you don't have to speak sami yourself and you only have to be 1/8 of sami "ethnic origin". Today Oslo has the most sami residents (half joke) and only a few herd reindeer.

 

Estimates of total numbers of sami range from 50 000 to 100 000 with 40 000 to 65 000 living in Norway. The total sami population in Northern Norway is 37 760. 12 650 have registered to vote in the sami elections and 2 820 have jobs connected to reindeer. There are also groups of sami which traditionally have never had any connection to reindeer (sea-samis).

[Caeser]

A continuation of this topic ...

 

Crofters go for “tribal†status

Originally posted here on 22 February, 2008

 

CROFTERS in the Highlands and Islands are to put their case to be considered the region’s indigenous people by the United Nations in a bid to gain more self determination for their way of life.

 

The Scottish Crofting Foundation is launch a report at the Scottish Parliament next week which examines what benefits such a move would bring to those working the land in the far north of the country.

 

Specifically the SCF is looking to see a democratically elected Crofters Commission to be put in charge of its affairs and to be given protection such as that afforded to the Sami people of northern Norway and Finland.

 

Iain MacKinnon, who has been researching the project, said crofters had a strong case to be classed indigenous people under international law. “If the United Nations recognise that status, the UK would have to pay attention to the group rights that such classification entails,†he said.

 

"One central plank of the indigenous peoples' movement has been the right to self-determination on issues which relate specifically to their way of life.

 

"The call by politicians from across the different parties for devolution of power within the Highlands

and Islands on regional issues has already raised this issue in a Scottish context and Liberal Democrat MSP John Farquhar Munro's call for a democratically elected Crofters Commission provides an example of how this devolution could begin in practice."

 

SCF chief executive Patrick Krause said: "This is an exciting development which breaks new ground in our understanding of how crofting and Highland culture in general should be represented – and who should represent it.

 

"Other historically oppressed groups, such as the Norwegian Sami, have made good use of international law to win a greater say in how their culture is defined within the wider context of their relationship with the nation state that is now their home, and which has also become an important part of their identity.

 

"I think it is important to stress that the implications of this project are not confined to crofting alone. The Highlands and Islands has rich and varied cultural, musical and linguistic traditions which are more often rooted in crofting and fishing areas.

 

"The SCF believe that if the bearers of that culture – which is a central part of Scottish cultural identity – are given the opportunity to participate more fully in the determination of its future direction it will help in the revitalisation of the Highlands and Islands – strengthening confidence and belief in this distinctive and valuable way of life."

 

I have never read anything so embarrassing in my life. If I was a crofter I would throw myself over the knab at the first opportunity.

 

Hangers on -more like, trying to preserve a method of keeping the subsidy cheques coming in while they produce foodstuffs which no one wants to buy. A free economy would sort it out. Why a crofter should be paid for living in the country, when everyone else just has to get on with it. I really cannot see the logic in it.

[Freyr]

Hangers on -more like, trying to preserve a method of keeping the subsidy cheques coming in while they produce foodstuffs which no one wants to buy. A free economy would sort it out. Why a crofter should be paid for living in the country, when everyone else just has to get on with it. I really cannot see the logic in it.

 

I read somewhere that the percentage of a household's expenses spent on food has dropped from over 50% to ca 10-15%. Then the case is that a farmer will now get comparatively less money for his product and commodities we all want and need become more expensive for him. Now a farmer could of course find himself another job. But there are several reasons for maintaining local farming. Keeping the country as self sufficient with food as possible is important from a security point of view. Even though the percentage of people working the land is low even in rural areas the primary professions such as farming form a large chunk of the basis for sustaining communities in those areas. From an environmental point of view it is important to preserve as much arable land as possible and keep as many farmers as possible as it seems those might be rare in the future. Also locally produced food pollutes less and is easier to monitor healthwise. Estethically and from a tourist standpoint the farmers also preserve the landscape as we know it. So it seems subsidies to farmers are important for the whole of society.

 

As for using the indigenous card I say use any legal mean at your disposal to get you will through. If that one works, why not...