Michael Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 As long as a post has clarity and it's fairly easy to discern the meaning I see no problem in being a little verbose. What I don't understand is people deliberately not bothering to use grammar at all I know it's not that common these days, but I don't see how it's any extra effort to punctuate and make sure most of the necessary grammar is there. I would have thought that's most people's default writing styles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Ah me, once again, my attempt at dry wit has fallen flat. My use of Lithuanian was part of a light-hearted response to Master Maywick's reference to possible alternate identities for my "true self", which became separated from my main post, owing to a "contre temps", I experienced with my Interweb contraption. It obviously fell flat. I'll get me coat!! In my defence, I did not begin this thread, nor did I provide the title. That accolade must go to our esteemed moderator, Master Pooks, who took issue with our repetitively tangential discussions on my (apparently vexing) loquaciousness. That the selfsame soul, who first took such issue with my use of our - all too oft ignored and underused mother tongue - should riposte in a similar fashion, gladdens my heart, even as it irks others. Master Nederlander, it may be that such florid prose and verbosity is contagious! In which case, I would willingly be Patient Zero. Master Maywick, I fear we are in disagreement, sir, as I do not agree with your view on my reaching a wider audience - as evidenced by our peers' own posts on the topic at hand - and you do not agree with this. It does not take deductive reasoning to reach such a conclusion, however, at least our debate is a friendly and good-humoured one, and you have my thanks for that. Master Nederlander, once again, sir, you have my assurance that my intention was not to provide scorn nor to be patronising. Your humble servant. Post script If anyone knows Master Maywick, please pass on my aforementioned regards, as I fear he may just see my name and pass over the content pertaining to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I find it ironic looking at your posts Sherlock that prose originated from a word meaning "straightforward" Not that i'm complaining! I like your enthusiasm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Ah, Master Michael, an erudite fellow! But then it also means "dull and tiresome", and I have, on occasion, been accused of both! (sniffle! ). Your humble servant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I am interested to know how you speak in everyday life. I know that you said this is a persona you have created, but do you use so called "big" words that much in general conversation? Also if you do what is the general reaction? Bit of a vague question really but I don't really know anyone who would use half of the more exotic words you do in your posts, in conversation, so I don't know how people would take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 It should suffice to say, sir, that those who have my acquaintance in everyday life, do not require to be told that I am Sherlock. I have rarely, if ever, suffered a negative response from colleagues. However, I confess to readily employing social engineering skills with witnesses and suspects alike, in order to build rapport and put them at their ease. In fact, the initially (often) tongue-in-cheek nature of some of my posts, gave way to an only slightly exaggerated version of my usual self. I do not view it as a redundant use of "big words" in order to display and boast of my knowledge. Far from it, in fact. Rather, I see it as a celebration of the richness and diversity of our ever-evolving, oft-ignored language. Master Stephen Fry speaks far more eloquently than I do on the subject of our language and it's useage, and, if interested, I would urge you to seek out his own scribblings and comments on the subject. I am more Sherlock, than he is me, if that makes sense to you? Your humble servant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I think I understand what you mean now. I am very fond of Stephen Fry and pretty much everything he has written or been a part of. I love a lot of the weird and quirky details of the English language that he seems to be able to demonstrate with unnerving ease. I also really like the "QI philosphy" I have been told at school that nobody likes it when people use "big words" as they just alienate people and make the offender out to be arrogant or something similar, and at school sometimes this definitely seems to be the case. I'm not one to forgo practicality in order to express myself how I would like (not that I am suggesting you are), but it is very encouraging to hear that in the real world so to speak this is less likely as evidenced by this forum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filskadacat Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 I have been told at school that nobody likes it when people use "big words" as they just alienate people and make the offender out to be arrogant or something similarThat is an absolutely shocking indictment of whatever school it was. How many decades ago was that? Surely no respectable modern educational establishment these days is perpetuating such iniquitous nonsense? With reference to Michael’s earlier inquiry about ‘not really knowing anyone who would use half of the more exotic words … in conversation’ - I know a number of people for whom such a mode of discourse would be the norm. Some of them are now safely ensconced in ivory towers in Oxford whence they are unlikely willingly to emerge - but they started life in schools in Aberdeen, Glasgow...even sunny Dundee! Whether wittingly or not we all choose different registers of language in day-to-day engagement; the smallest children in the playground express themselves differently to their peers than to the headmistress. Every proud Shetlander can knap for the sooth-mooth relatives up on the boat for a week in August and revert to normal dialect without even thinking about it when they have gone off to Herma Ness for the day. An ability to employ a more elevated form of literary expression, even if consciously anachronistic in tone, is no different. It is a pleasure to read Sherlock’s posts, even if Homer nodded slightly with a misplaced apostrophe preceding a misspelling in the penultimate line of the most recent. I have not forgotten being taken to task in Safeway’s by a complete stranger for explaining to my 2-year-old son, perched in the trolley with his fat little legs dangling, that ‘the fundamental characteristic of a carrot is that it should be hard’ after he had grabbed said vegetable and addressed said adjective to it. Today, aged 20, he phoned to say that despite the lack of persuasive fluency traditionally associated with the pursuit of a Maths degree (Maths! – why would anyone want to study pure Maths? ) he has succeeded in talking himself into a three-month summer placement at the defence research laboratory where he would like eventually to work when he graduates. Please tell me that nothing calling itself a school is in 2009 advising its pupils to aim for anything less than the best they can be? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marooned in Maywick Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Master Maywick, I fear we are in disagreement, sir, as I do not agree with your view on my reaching a wider audience - as evidenced by our peers' own posts on the topic at hand - and you do not agree with this. It does not take deductive reasoning to reach such a conclusion, however, at least our debate is a friendly and good-humoured one, and you have my thanks for that. Aha, Sherlock...now we disagree. As you rightly say, our peers own posts on this topic have generally been in support of your usage of your mother tongue. However, none have yet stated that they would not read them were you to adopt a more down-to-Earth turn of phrase. Therefore it is a perfectly logical deduction that your readership would not decrease if you took this course of action. Furthermore, to develop this train of logic, since I have stated that I would be more inclined to read your posts if they were written with less affectation it is absolutely correct to deduce that your readership would be likely to increase - not by much, admittedly, but an increase of 1 is still an increase. So, on that note, I'll bid you a good evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 My dear fellow, my deduction, in fact, referred to the fact that we were in disagreement - a semi-permanent state for us both, it seems. The appreciative posts on my floridity of phrase strongly suggest that those posting might not enjoy or appreciate them quite so much, were I to begin to adopt "text speak", or phonetic English - or even (were there such creation) "plain English"! I really do rather enjoy such discourse, and shall miss your readership and repartee, should you choose to ignore my own in future. I bid you pleasant slumber, and pray that Morpheus is kind. Master DaCat, One often finds, when using these deuced contraptions - particularly of the handheld variety - that they have a mind of their own, believing their command of our language greater than that of the unfortunate soul employing their use! While some may welcome such assistance, I find it quite, quite irksome on occasion, and am grateful for your pointing out my inadequacy to me. It was never like this at Eton, I assure you! I am in wholehearted agreement with you, in respect of standards of education, if such unutterable nonsense is being propounded by those whom we depend upon to instil knowledge in our youth. Your humble servant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 That is an absolutely shocking indictment of whatever school it was. How many decades ago was that? Surely no respectable modern educational establishment these days is perpetuating such iniquitous nonsense? It wasn't that long ago, i'm still at school. I've forgotten the context though and it didn't seem that significant a comment to me at the time. Looking back it does strike me as odd however! That said, most of my teachers have been very supportive to all their students and I recognise that I am very lucky to learn at the Anderson. I have attended conferences which involved pupils from numerous other Scottish schools and there seems to be a massive gap between the best state schools and the worst. It is slightly depressing to ponder how many childern are having their opportunities heavily constricted by misfortune in where they go to school. But then the same could be said to a greater extent regarding inequities in other parts of the world ad infinitum. Coincidentally, I very nearly decided to apply to do a maths degree I saw the light in the end however and changed my mind to phyiscs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filskadacat Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 It wasn't that long ago, i'm still at school. I've forgotten the context though and it didn't seem that significant a comment to me at the time. Looking back it does strike me as odd however! Am mightily relieved about most of this except perhaps for the possibility that a member of staff may have made a remark which had led itself to that interpretation. Am always glad to see AHS featuring in or near the top 10 (state) schools in the country. Have sent PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner72 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 To further what Michael said, it is not just educational establishments where this "policy" is becoming the norm. More and more often people are being asked to write technical documents in "plain english", which is definined (in my personal encouters with such) as avoiding any industry specific language or jargon. I do not think an explanation of the contradiction in terms between "technical documents" and " non industry specific language" is necessary. I have found this thread very interesting. I am a strong supporter of Shetland dialect, and use it whenever I can. However, I find that when posting in english it is much easier and more natural to use "proper" language. Anyone who knows me must find this a bit odd to read, as I can't knap for love nor money in real life! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.