Renewable Energy - The Saltire Prize Flop

[greenheatman]

My wave energy ship will use paddles to convert almost all the energy of a wave into heat - and store it.

 

now i know your science is faulty. your claiming that you can change a form of energy into heat without loss. this indicates that your paddles are friction free. that the energy generated loses nothing in transmittion to your heat generator this also loses nothing. very impressive.

 

one moment your using heat pumps next your using paddles. your ship is also going to be steam driven which is using the power created to move it. Which should be classed as a loss in production.

 

Don't put word in my mouth - I did not say that there would not be losses. In fact losses in heat may amount to around 25% - this is easily compensated for by putting 125% of free energy in at the front end QED

[ArabiaTerra]

My wave energy ship will use paddles to convert almost all the energy of a wave into heat - and store it.

Hooray! At last!

 

Now we finally get a tiny inkling into how this magic system actually works. My god, that took some doing, worse than pulling teeth. Why didn't you just say this in the first place, GHM, instead of wasting six pages of Shetlink space saying nothing and insulting the regulars.

 

So, is this going to be a nodding paddle type thing a la the Salter Duck , or a rotary thing like a Mississippi paddle steamer?

[crofter]

since I am one of those lesser educated mortals for whom the penny drops extremely slowly without coloured-in pictures, my involvement in this once very interesting tale ends here.

 

better change your sig!

 

"...All progress, therefore, depends upon the unreasonable man."

[greenheatman]

My wave energy ship will use paddles to convert almost all the energy of a wave into heat - and store it.

Hooray! At last!

 

Now we finally get a tiny inkling into how this magic system actually works. My god, that took some doing, worse than pulling teeth. Why didn't you just say this in the first place, GHM, instead of wasting six pages of Shetlink space saying nothing and insulting the regulars.

 

So, is this going to be a nodding paddle type thing a la the Salter Duck , or a rotary thing like a Mississippi paddle steamer?

 

 

In the 70s it was routine to burn oil to raise steam - the call for an alternative way was answered by S Salter's Duck. He struggled for years to get it to generate electricity and failed - poor man - his big mistake was to not generate heat from the waves - that way he would have replaced the burning oil to raise steam.

 

We have been lumbered with his mistake for the last 40 years. Renewable energy should be used to generate heat not electricity. If this strategy had been adopted then renewable energy may have replaced some coal fired power stations by now - 40 wasted years is enough to make you weep!

[ArabiaTerra]

^^^^ Errr, the Salter Duck worked, successfully transferring 90% of the wave energy to electricity. Check out the Wiki page for details. It was killed off by bureaucratic mistakes and the fossil fuel lobby.

According to sworn testimony before the House of Parliament, The UK Wave Energy program was shut down on March 19, 1982, in a closed meeting, the details of which remain secret. The members of the meeting were recruited largely from the nuclear and fossil fuels industries, and the wave programme manager, Clive Grove-Palmer, was excluded.

 

An analysis of Salter's Duck resulted in a miscalculation of the estimated cost of energy production by a factor of 10, an error which was only recently identified. Some wave power advocates believe that this error, combined with a general lack of enthusiasm for renewable energy in the 1980s (after oil prices fell), hindered the advancement of wave power technology.

Mind you, it was a complex machine which might not have proved practical in open sea conditions.

[greenheatman]

^^^^ Errr, the Salter Duck worked, successfully transferring 90% of the wave energy to electricity. Check out the Wiki page for details. It was killed off by bureaucratic mistakes and the fossil fuel lobby.

According to sworn testimony before the House of Parliament, The UK Wave Energy program was shut down on March 19, 1982, in a closed meeting, the details of which remain secret. The members of the meeting were recruited largely from the nuclear and fossil fuels industries, and the wave programme manager, Clive Grove-Palmer, was excluded.

 

An analysis of Salter's Duck resulted in a miscalculation of the estimated cost of energy production by a factor of 10, an error which was only recently identified. Some wave power advocates believe that this error, combined with a general lack of enthusiasm for renewable energy in the 1980s (after oil prices fell), hindered the advancement of wave power technology.

Mind you, it was a complex machine which might not have proved practical in open sea conditions.

 

 

If his wave machine just produced heat it would have been more robust to stand open sea conditions - besides waves lose a lot of their power as the seabed shoals - but had he thought of wave to heat then - the whole world would have followed suit.

 

Sadly, we need to change direction which will be very difficult now that the planet is covered with pathetic and puny wind, wave and tidal machines.

[paulb]

Sadly, we need to change direction which will be very difficult now that the planet is covered with pathetic and puny wind, wave and tidal machines.

 

You said your gadget was going to be 75%efficient. our puny wind turbines are going to be 55% efficient which is proven unlike your system. then you have to get your energy to the customers this will bring down your rating down to below the 55% of ours.

[TeeAyBee]

Something just struck me that I had to share with you. Everything posted by Greenheatman has the ring of snake oil - put in mind the charlatan salesmen of the old west selling cure-alls for anything and everything. Each product was the newest and best. However, all the products were nothing but coloured water and failed to deliver on their promises.

 

You're a Snake Oil Salesman GHM. Your products are nothing more than pie in the sky. Yes there is some merit to your ideas, and you may even be right, but you haven't got anything to show anyone and all you do is exhibit arrogance and attack anyone who doesn't believe in you as the saviour of mankind. Take your messiah complex to someone who will build your ideas and then come back and show it to us. I promise to be properly enlightened when confronted with direct evidence of your 'genius'.

 

Windpower and other 'green' technlogies may not be as efficient or as 'green' as your unrealised concepts but they are here now. Your product is not and the more you rail on folk about what a genius you are and how they are wrong the less likely it is that your idea will be built. It was the same with your Gentec Venturii device that didn't see the light of day and which you have now dropped as being wrong. What are you going to chase next?

 

If you want my advice, which of course you wouldn't want with me being a mere graduate and MENSA member so obviously I'm not smart enough to grasp the basic ideas you propound, focus on building a working model of your idea. If it works it will open doors for you. Until then, you're just selling Snake Oil.

[greenheatman]

First of all I did not drop Gentec venturi because there was anything wrong with it - I dropped because this predictable renewable energy is predictably poor during Neap tides - this applies to all real time tidal generators.

 

Again you are mixing apples and oranges. My system's overall efficiency may be a bit lower because it will deliver Class A electrcity - current renewables deliver third rate Class C subject to the state of the tide or the weather.

 

Surely, even a member of MENSA can see that comparing like with like is a valid thing to to - otherwise it is merely mathematical illiteracy.

[TeeAyBee]

First of all I did not drop Gentec venturi because there was anything wrong with it - I dropped because this predictable renewable energy is predictably poor during Neap tides - this applies to all real time tidal generators.

 

Again you are mixing apples and oranges. My system's overall efficiency may be a bit lower because it will deliver Class A electrcity - current renewables deliver third rate Class C subject to the state of the tide or the weather.

 

Surely, even a member of MENSA can see that comparing like with like is a valid thing to to - otherwise it is merely mathematical illiteracy.

 

So what will happen when you 'suddenly' see the flaw in this new system? And surely someone so smart as you can see the point of my post was to suggest that you put up or shut up.

 

Snake oil.

 

Build your system. Stop talking up something that doesn't exist.

[greenheatman]

 

So what will happen when you 'suddenly' see the flaw in this new system?

 

The power from waves in the North Atlantic is infinite provided that you are allowed to move about a bit to find them. The waves in one fixed location will be poor and unusable for about 30% of the year. There will be good waves somewhere in the NA - you just need a ship to go and get them.

 

The "flaw" as you put it applies to tidal stream itself NOT any of the devices that are put in the water to extract its energy.

 

Speed reading again?

[TeeAyBee]

The "flaw" as you put it applies to tidal stream itself NOT any of the devices that are put in the water to extract its energy.

 

Speed reading again?

 

Hardly - have you? You are clearly missing the point. Your behaviour is the issue I'm commenting on, I don't really give much of a toss for your idea and whether it actually works or not, mostly because I can't reconcile your arrogance and antipathy towards anyone who either doesn't grasp immediately your half explained ideas or against those who don't agree with you. In the past you've gone all out for a solution claiming that everyone else is wrong (http://www.shetlink.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2546&start=375 - note particularly when you slagged off an 'expert' on July 27 2007) and then drop it before it ever actually reaches realisation. Then comes a new solution and everyone else is wrong again, except of course you. This echoes my original point many pages ago "Here we go again".

 

Now let me make this clear. Your solution could be the answer to all of the earth's problems with mankind, however, it does not at this time exist anywhere other than in your head. As I suggested before and no doubt you'll ignore it again so slow down your speed reading and take this in - get your idea built and then demonstrate how smart you are.

 

Otherwise you're selling snake oil - now once again, put up or shut up.

[Fatal Paper Cut]

^^^

 

What he said.

[JimIvens]

The tidal energy generator in Ireland has just completed its first year and has been a resounding success, generating enough power to supply ten thousand homes. Yes there are slack tide times, but the tide does not peak everywhere at once around the coast of Shetland so scatter them about. Yes it produces less energy during a neap tide, so plant enough to generate our electrical needs during neap tides and rotate them out for maintainance during spring tides. Simple. That would solve our power problems, which one hundred and fifty wind generators wont. They showed the new windfarm outside Glasgow on the goggle box the other day and the hillsides looked awful, with roads as wide as the north road out of Lerwick criss crossing between them.

[sjeunson]

So we now have a ship with paddles to take energy out of the waves to heat water in pressurised tanks onboard. We're getting a better picture slowly but surely.

 

Any sizes of such a system? To harness the amount of energy being talked about would require something fairly substantial.