Infiltrator

I think a new thread is probably better, I think we should leave this one for Stuarts continuing antics. What options? now there's a good question... The whole question of more autonomy or full independence isn't something you can simply ask folk - most won't have a clue what it'll actually mean to them personally or for the islands as a whole. Despite what he's said above, his website makes it clear that full independence is the goal of his campaign. Ask anyone, anywhere in the UK if they want more independence from Westminster and they'll automatically say 'yes' without even considering the implications, it's human nature. The issue here for me is Stuart Hills delusion claiming to represent the majority of Shetland in his seemingly one man oddball campaign. For me the question is simply 'Do you support Stuart Hills campaign?'

Well how about a proper poll - like Fifi asked earlier, if it's clear you don't have a majority support will you give up your challenge? When you mean 'we' I presume you mean Shetlanders? I'm not sure I'm happy that you seem to include yourself in this 'we' after Martin Clunes mockumentary, plus you live on Forvik so your views don't actually count.

Very interesting Markus, if this is true then the more evidence we uncover about his claims vs the truth, the clearer it is that there's something very irrational about the way his mind interprets reality. How much of what he's claimed is really true? I posted this earlier in the week.

Experiment?, what experiment? are you trialling some new mind altering drugs? My lack of support is on the basis that the supporters are either unprepared or unable to provide solid facts on what independence would mean for Shetlands economic or social future.

^Sheepshagger, I wasn't defending NL, I was just trying trying to add to the debate about the suitability of catamarans on the north run by posting some info which, on the face of it, is based on quite valid experience. If you don't believe what NL stated in their document why not ask the MCA, after all, it seems it's their restrictions that keep the catamarans tied up when the monohulls still operate. I don't think the current vessels are well suited to the route but I'd need some serious convincing that catamarans were the answer. That said, I do think NL's policy of cancelling sailings in heavy weather is a sensible approach, both from the vessel design and passenger comfort/safety perspective. I also think that sailings every night through the winter months is a luxury that the route can't support - strange that their proposal is very similar to the one that served P&O well for many years. Maybe they've finally twigged that they can't lure the extra 150,000 tourists/year onto the route that they'd originally forecasted.

Found this from Calmac, in their experience monohulls can still operate in rough conditions when the catamarans have been confined to port by MCA restrictions. http://www.scribd.com/doc/5737353/Calmac-catamarans-and-rough-seas

So if Shetland wouldn't get the tax revenue from the oilfields around Shetland would you still support independence? If the UK were prepared just to give up the tax revenue I think you might find Norway would then be keen to adopt it's long lost islands. What independence seems to boil down to is whether or not the islands would get control of fishing with a 200 mile limit and if we'd also get the tax revenue from oilfields around Shetland - the chance of this happening is so remote that it should only be considered a bonus when considering independence. Remember the UK went to war to keep the Falklands, I don't believe they'd happily relinquish Shetland.

Shetland produces energy? are you talking about the wind farm? If you're talking about Sullom I think you'll find the energy that passes though there belongs to someone else. If you're talking tax from the oil I wasn't aware that the UK government had offered to give up their tax income from the fields around Shetland if it became independant - have they? So far all I've seen from the supporters of independence is a lot of claims and assumptions. I'd just like some hard facts and numbers - surely that's not too much to ask before radically changing the islands future for the next few hundred years?

Would you care to expand - how is this a fact? presumably you can show us some numbers to prove this. If Shetland became independant, could the local taxes continue to employ 25% of the working population as the council currently does?

^Fifi, I'd agree, speaks volumes. Although he's denied it, I still believe this is more about individuals wishes rather than the wishes of the majority. I'll state it again - Independence for Shetland would be economic and social suicide. I'm still waiting for anyone that does support independence to provide some real evidence that can prove otherwise.

And for me this is the whole crux of the matter - I don't believe the islands can support themselves without significant additional income from fishing and oil - and that's not going to happen. Let's face it, neither of these industries are headed in the direction where you'd like to place the long term success of independence for the islands. I don't believe the supporter(s?) of independence have any real idea of the economic or social impact for Shetland. All I've seen so far are some headline benefits when compared to the IOM or Jersey or Guernsey. All of these islands have the benefit of being easy to reach from the most populated areas of the UK plus the benefit of a climate that encourages tourism from UK residents (and no midges). The above post highlighted the islands healthcare reliance on Aberdeen, the sheer number of folk who go south each week for treatment is quite significant. So the cost of passenger travel itself is high but bear in mind that the folk are going south for specialist treatment, goodness only knows what this would cost if it wasn't paid for by the NHS. Another good example is the Northlink ferry - you want independence, you'll find yourselves with 2 ferry sailings to Aberdeen each week. Look at Northlinks plans on the Shetland News website, even with the subsidy they want to reduce sailings through the winter to 3 trips a week. Independence sounds wonderful till you consider the practicalities and recognise the standard of living and services that the islands currently provide.

I really believe he's doing this for himself - I think it's his ego that's driving him and he thinks if he's successful he'll go down in local history as some sort of saviour of Shetland. I'm sure I read somewhere that his son and wife had basically disowned him after his boat(ego) trip, surely it'd be more personally rewarding to sort his relationship with his son at least? I think he's egotistic, delusional and very misguided and ultimately he's driven by a desire to be someone. He'd be much better taking a good hard look at himself and getting his priorities sorted.

I can think of a couple of Schools in Aberdeenshire where they're on the main A class road - but they have temporary limits of 20 mph past the school when the bairns aren't in class - breaks, lunch, hometime, etc.

And another complete waste of time and money for the Police and courts who have better things to do - suggest we don't encourage him. If he really wants to do something worthwhile with his life why can't he head for Africa and do something charitable instead of bleeding resources that are already overstretched. If I had time on my hands after retiring I'd like to think I could do something useful to help others less fortunate before I depart this planet rather than deliberately being a pain in the proverbial.

I really don't believe Shetlanders know what the true impact to the isles would be should Shetland become an island completely independent of the UK government. Not only that, I also believe that were Shetlanders given the choice, the majority would prefer to leave things the way they are and have the security of being part of he UK. I can just remember the devolution debate in the late 70's, why would there be greater support now? At least at the moment we have the security of knowing that if our council cocks up the budget we can get some support from the government. Anyone who thinks we would get any more control of the oil and fishing around Shetland is kidding themselves.

Strange she hasn't replied Stuart - wouldn't it have been polite to ask the folks of Shetland for their thoughts on this whole subject before you started this crusade of yours. Most Shetlanders are completely fed up with your antics and the time you've wasted of hard working folk who could be spending their time doing real work, e.g. coastguards, RNLI, Police, council officials and various members of Royal Families. Do you honestly believe you have any local support?

I suspect the removal and disposal costs will be minimal looking at the signature on the notice

Cramped Are you talking Fair Isle and Foula departure lounge? Or is there an International departures on Forvik now? Sumburghs terminal is huge in comparison to what they really need. Suggest you have a good look around next time you pass through, you could use the upstairs as an indoor football pitch. As for there's not much to do - what would you like to do? Even Aberdeen struggles to make this work. Over the past 4 years there's been gaming machines, a betting area and a Baxters shop, all of which have now moved on

http://cagle.msnbc.com/working/051109/bish.gif

Max, in your original post you suggested that helicopters weren't safe and that's why your helicopter tech friends wouldn't choose to fly in them. Not your exact words but anyone reading your post will easily draw that conclusion. The point I'm making, is that I don't believe any helicopter techs worth their salt, would state that they wouldn't choose to fly in a helicopter because they were unsafe. I think you overstepped the mark by suggesting this conclusion in your original post, you've been reading the Daily Mail for far too long

Just strikes me as odd as all the one's I've met are very professional and take their job very seriously - I couldn't imagine any of them saying that they'd never choose to fly in a helicopter. Maybe the heli techs that Max knows are the only ones who would choose not to fly in a helicopter?

Max, to return to your original post - I suggest you have a read at this (page 17 prob best for you) http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/368283-heli-ditch-north-sea-again-not-condolences-17.html Seems a number of folks who post on there disagree with the sentiment of techs that you said you know.

After all the effort to redevelop the waterfront they then spoil it with this monstrosity All the effort that went into designing the new museum to ensure it portrayed the waterfront heritage and then they build something alongside which looks like it should be on the set of Star Wars

Yawn.... (shakes head at spelling 'personnally,bread')

^^Utter tosh. If you found a healthy rabbit and smashed it's head in for no reason it'd be cruel in my book. Try comparing apples with apples if you want to make a real comparison.