Ghostrider

It doesn't say when he travelled in to town...... Perhaps he'd done that earlier on, and had had a 'rest' in the Masonic while he waited for 1am to roll round.

^ Neither the NFU or The Scottish Farmer are above sensationalism and scaremongering. They don't speak for or represent much else unless the heavily industrialised behemoth enterprises of the central belt and the fringes up the east coast, who of course are going to whinge and bitch and whine whethe rits justified or not. Its called PR/political tactics.

That is because the 800 odd wool producers all rely on EU subsidy to remain viable. Once that is lost in a year or so from now there will be very few, if any, left. Good luck with your 'revival'. No they don't, its a simple as that. Removal of all subsidy would obviously reduce profitability, but the industry would still be viable. Anybody who is 'relying' on subsidies to keep their agricultural business viable either isn't much of a businessperson or chooses to pursue high risk business strategies, with the pitfalls that accompanies it. Besides, nobody knows as yet what exactly the market will settle down to post Brexit once the artificial import/export market created by EU legislation is removed, or what replacement subsidies the UK may or may not introduce to replace lost EU ones. Wool is a secondary product, the main market for that agricultural sector is meat. There's 66 Million odd bodies in the UK, all need to eat, and with there being every possibility that post Brexit meat imports from the EU to the UK will be more expensive which can only help the hoe produced product in the home market. We won't be losing much by leaving, the EU were never keen on our meat from that sector, its not that long ago the French were hijacking truck loads of the stuff and performing arson attacks on it, and Brussels stood by in silence while some Eastern European banana republic undercut us in the Italian market. I thought the EU was supposed to be 'a level playing field' for all members....... Its never worked out that way for UK agricultural exports to other members Besides, if we're going to get in to 'crofter subsidy junkie' bashing, windfarms are subsidy recipients, and arguably are no more viable in Shetland without that subsidy than sheep farming is without its subsidy, yet nobody is knocking that scenario. Very strange. Any payments crofters etc are getting for VE etc are only possible due to windfarm subsidies, and that's apparently 'okay', yet paying the same people from the taxation of the same people to produce meat and wool on the same land instead of theoretically producing electricity isn't okay. A plate o' mutton in your belly an an ooin ganzie on your back will keep you warm and comfortable, electric that is only on when the wind blows at the right time at the right strength does nothing to fill your belly and only sometimes will keep you warm..........

^ Ah, yes, back in the bad old days before we have much cultural enrichment of the blessed great EU. Back when we had nearly as many knitwear factories dotted around the isle as we had fish factories..... I'm not saying the EU single-handedly killed off much of the knitwear export market, the rise in the use of artificial fibres in the clothing industry and sweat shop knock offs did much of that, but its difficult to conceive the decline could have been any worse if we'd still been devoid of continental enrichment either.

The value of anything is not what its worth to the current possessor, but what somebody else is willing to give them for it. As a matter of principle we shouldn't negotiate away anything to do with our fishing rights, but seeing just how high the rest of the EU will go to try and secure a deal to some of those rights is a very handy rule of thumb we can use in the future when setting prices for licences to allow them controlled and limited access (if that's something we wanted to do - it would be handy income short term while the UK fleet rebuilds itself), or setting prices for any fish we might want to export to them. As lets face it, the rest of the EU have only limited choices once the UK territorial waters are removed from the total EU 'pool' - A radical reduction in seafood consumption by the entire EU population and a large part of its current fishing fleet paid to turn itself in to razor blades, or they purchase licences from us, or import a far greater tonnage of their seafood consumption than previously. All of the above are economic and political negatives for the EU, so its no wonder they're keen to avoid them,, besides having gotten something for free and in plenty for almost 50 years that they probably shouldn't have gotten, its no wonder they're fighting tooth and nail for it when the only future they're looking at involves losing it or paying dearly for it.

Old Bill doing house to house searches checking lofts, basements and under the beds for extra bodies, instead of in crapper cisterns and holes in walls looking for folk's stash then I guess. It'll be a nice change in routine for the boys and gals in blue anyway, I guess.

.....but, but, but........

Never mind, only another 2-3 month of the current 'rona/BLM/we're aa doooooomed 'climate emergency' b/s to put up with, then it'll all be forgotten and we'll be left to pick up the pieces. By then the lot over the pond will know who their Prez is and we'll (hopefully) finally be fully 'Brexitted' taking the two main pots to stir out of the game. Until they decide to dump the next load of global panic scaremongering 'an asteriod killed the dinosaurs' on us......

Its been a slow news weekend....... Had it happened at any other time than during a time of mass public hysteria driven by the media and fanned by pandering politicians and public bodies, plod sending a collection of pissed up teens 'hame ta yer beds' in the sma oors would barely have been noticed by anybody.

^ and THAT precisely is a large part of the problem with being in the EU. Its trade on the EU's terms with rest of the world's nations, those are not necessarily the terms that the UK would choose or prefer, and its against a backdrop of any one given non-EU nation's 'relations' with the EU, which again isn't necessarily the kind of 'relations' that nation would have with the UK as a stand alone nation. The EU may well have the 'clout' in terms of volume of trade due to its physical size to seal the deals it can do with the rest of the globe, but that in no way can replace or compensate for cultural, geographical, historical, political etc differences both within itself and with the rest of the world that as often as not make smaller nation to nation bespoke deals the prudent route. Its just a 'different' way, not a better way to do business. Size isn't always everything. Good relations borne out of mutual knowledge, respect, understanding, friendliness and benefits often proves more profitable in the end. The UK has at least well over a Millennium, double to treble of that even depending upon your POV of history and culture that sets it apart from the majority of the EU, the EU is politically left of centre to bordering on extreme left, the UK is generally centreist with minor dalliances slightly to either side on occasion. Neither side of the water understand who the other is or where they've come from, and bicker constantly with no sign yet of abatement. It was a worthy experiment, but after almost 50 years, its time to stop flogging a dead horse that never gave a thing in the first place and move on.

Bang on the money with this post, at last a bit of hard nosed realism.The EU has something the UK desperately wants, they can grant or deny unfettered access to EU markets, there's never one side in a negotiation and it doesn't take a genius to see how it's all going to pan out, either the UK caves or they take a huge financial hit. No amount of spitfire fly by's, union jacks or royal babies can hide this reality. More fool the UK, *if* there's any truth in that allegation. There's a big bad non-EU world market out there, let the damned EU stew in its own juices. They'll be going hungry ta sh*te some mornin, long before we do.

Exactly! Its not the job of any legislature to preach morality, and its certainly nobody's job to 'dictate' morality. Tax haven, flag of convenience state, gambling haven, booze cruise destination and multiple others as well, if our status and/or geographical location makes it possible that we can cash in by having more attractive taxation rates than others, it needs to be examined very carefully and only discounted *if* the negatives, to us, outweigh the positives. The negatives to others and/or those who use it are no our problem. You can either choose to live in a society that is morally sanatised, or one that is financially affluent, they are mutually exclusive states of being. A middle ground compromise is what we've been trying to live with now for several centuries, its never worked out too well, and certainly getting no better as time passes.

You need a mandate. Until such time as you have some policies which can be taken seriously and some credible candidates to implement them you won't get it. Until then it's a pipe dream. Yes, of course you need a believably workable blueprint, folk capable of implementing it, and a mandate to do so. So far only the general idea has been thrown out there, which has garnered a reasonable level of support. Whether enough to be a majority mandate, who knows. It needs working up to the next stage with some sort of meat being put on the bones, addressing how and why it could work and why it would make sense to do, which should hopefully allow a better indication of the level of support and win over more, or not, as the case may be. There's no point in copying the Scots who've only ever promoted their separatism dreams on the basis of romanticism and historic xenophobia, history shows that hasn't turned out so well. Its the hard realities of day to day living and aspirations for the future that matter, and plans for such things don't happen overnight.

Anybody who has their head turned by that kind of crap deserves not to get everything they won't get.

So no 200 mile economic exclusive zone for Shetland as a British Overseas Territory or Crown dependency then, the UK would never allow it, I'm very glad to get to the bottom of that very misleading "wir" Shetland claim.What? The BOTs control their full EEZs. For example, the Falkland Islands (with less than 3000 citizens) controls an EEZ of 212,693 square miles. A huge % of their GDP comes from selling fishing rights in this zone. This is based on UNCLOS, Shetland would be no different. I expect an autonomous Shetland would negotiate fisheries access and mineral revenues with the parent country. Nope, the UK controls them, EEZ's are for sovereign states, good luck trying to get anything out of them. What you 'get out of them' is a direct result of how much the UK/Scotland wants whatever it wants we have, how much we want whatever we have, and which side has the best poker/chess players with the balls for bluff and brinkmanship. Nothing is ever cast in tablets of stone, everything is negotiable. At the end of the day our mandate would be full independence in which case the UK would get absolutely nothing of ours whatsoever, that in itself is more than plenty to get their attention. ......and there's plenty of other tactics we can throw on the table to make them nervous. All it takes is a bit of thinking outside the box and creatively and add in a liberal dose of bluff. Whatever we let the UK/Scotland have of ours would be a 'trade', and that 'trade' can be made to work our way with nothing more than us being more of a hard nosed SOAB than them. To quote a line from a song, 'everybody else is doing it, so why the hell should I'. - Just because other BOT's, Crown Dependencies etc have settled for whatever they've settled for does not mean we have to as well. Yeah, sure as hell Westminster/Holyrood will try and force that option as the only option, but that where you make sure the lead negotiator you send in is the most stubborn, intransigent SOAB you can dig up and give them the authority to let rip. Anybody who believes we'd have to pick an 'off the shelf' package deal as demonstrated by existing Crown Dependencies, BOT's etc, has been conditioned to follow the rules, not to question the rules, and to not believe the rules can be changed. If we're going to go for increased self determination, we first and foremost need to exercise that will by securing the deal that works for us, not a deal concocted by others, otherwise the whole exercise becomes hypocritical, a mockery and a farce.

Which also kinda answers the question, why would we want to stay with them in the event they go it alone. Whatever it is Scotland perceives they'll 'get' out of independence and EU membership, they're welcome to, I just hope the Scots that support getting in at least know what it is, but I'm yet to see one thing Shetland would 'get', unless a whole lot of grief and being robbed blind yet again.

If the UK remains as is the only way autonomy can be achieved is if the SIC holds a referedum of the resident Shetland population and that shows a clear majority in favour of an alternative to the status quo. I have no doubt the usual whining, bleating and gnashing of teeth will eminate from all political points further up the current totem, but at the end of the day it will be their bluster up against the recognition by the UN of self determination of peoples, and who has the biggest balls to play brinkmanship. If Scotland breaks away on its own it gives us a significant advantage, as we can play them and England off against each other to see who will give us the best deal to 'side' with them.

Since when did stating da bleedin obvious ta onybody wi a even da smaaest grain o' midder wit need a qualification. If you accept da 'scientist's' wird dat he spreads trow oral/respiratory fluids an can live aff o' a livin host fur a time, you micht is weel fecht fog is run fae im. Unless dey kit wis aa oot wi divin masks an oxygen tanks ta wear 24/7, da peerie sausage il ey fin sumeen ur somethin ta live upoa tae wye ur da tidder. An BTW, 'dae say' attackin da person redder is dir POV is a sign oh suntin.......I canna rightly mind whit, just eenoo. Hit'll come ta me tho.....

They're copying me, (in)famous at last. :D So, how is 'five months in to the two weeks flattening the curve sprootle' working out for everybody? Still everytime a dozen people meet up and breathe, another 'cluster' erupts. Clusterf**k more like, the whole thing. Lockdown or free for all, the total death toll by the time this is all over will be the same give or take a negligible percentage difference. Left to do its thing there would have been a kinda hefty pile of corpses to wade through for a year or two, then it would have been over. As it is we're looking like heading all the way to 2030 as mask wearing, socially distancing zombies winding our way through the same pile of corpses spread throughout that period as evenly as a slurry tanker's load down a rig. You cannot keep every household let alone every individual isolated in their own personal sterile bubble even for a short period, let alone indefinitely, and anything less any virus will find a way from host to host, be it quickly, or very, very slowly. Our politicians had the choice of imposing one kind of sadism or the other on us when addressing the 'rona. Either a relatively short period of kneed in the groin pain, or a relentless 24/7/365 toothache that goes on, and on, and on...... 5 months now and counting. Unless things change and perform a complete U turn from the last 5 months, if I'm still to the fore come then, I'd put money of being able to come back on this thread in March 2025 and post '5 years and counting'.

You could be right here, they will be looking for a new place to park their leaky nuclear subs after an independent Scotland demands removal, if we don't want them either our newly appointed military governor could try buying us natives off with wampum. And how would that be any worse than the industrialised windfarm wasteland the tartan mob are hellbent on turning us in to as it is. Personally I'd rather have a a fleet of nuke subs and a nuke power station parked up here then seas of great bloody white poles with wavy arms covering ever inch of the place. A bit of nuke pishing out of old subs hasn't turned huge numbers of the Russian population in to three headed giants or shriveled dwarves yet.

And you think whats left of the UK would No, but you box clever and pit Englandshire and the Indynats against each other. My money is on Englandshire being willing to do a deal more favourable to us than the tartan commies.

A leftist (regardless of what party banner they stand under) Holyrood, for that's all that ever will be in Holyrood, giving us exclusive 200 mile/median to oil and fish is only every likely to happen long after hell freezes over. Reds are centralist control freaks by definition. More likely Westminster would be amenable to giving us it in exchange for staying with them in the event of Scottish independence. They'd not want to lose our strategic military value - big difference between having a snoop station at Saxa, a moderately half decent airport here, and a decent anchorage in Scapa, to keep an eye on northern neighbours than trying to do it from around the Tyne or Mersey. One thing the UK is good at is keeping hold of little rocks all around the world from which to spy on the comings and going of others or provide bolt holes in time of need, that applies as much to their own back yard as mid ocean. Pretty much all the little territories they have dotted around the globe would have been unloaded as expensive, un-necessary liabilities otherwise.

If Scotland wants to go it alone, let them, just don't let them drag us along with them for we'll always be the adopted kid at their table. Being run by a bunch of twee commie central belters from their plastic parliament in Edinburgh is no better for us than Scotland being run by right wing English, which seems to be the main beef the Nats have about the UK, and the main (only?) driving force behind their indy dreams. Westminster have maybe done very little to help us over time, but they're done as little to harm us either, the same cannot be said for the Scots. If you must deal with foreigners, better the devil you know.

I've heard a lot of rumours about that site, allegedly nothing but shady claims and shonky deals.