Guest Anonymous Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 I would agree that eBay can be a fool's paradise, but research what you want to buy and know the price that you want to pay. Never get into a bidding war, always snipe in the last few seconds. If other people are foolish to bid too high then that is their loss and not mine. With the exception of a couple of problems my experiences on eBay have been very good. I have got some stunniing bargains from there. Never use PayPal. You sign up to give them absolute access to your bank account. If you are in any doubt about this then look at these: - www.paypalwarning.comwww.ioffer.com/clubs/PAYPAL-TERRIFIED-530http://marc.perkel.com/audio/paypal2.mp3 There are many other horror stories. Just ask yourself why PayPal wont apply for banking status and are constantly being complained against on consumer programs. I don't have a TV but I understand Watchdog covered their activities recently. It is just too easy to rip off sellers on eBay and eBay allows you to do it. I rarely sell anything on there now, preferring to give it away instead. I always offer sellers the chance of cheque, or direct transfer to their account. It doesn't stp me getting ripped off, but it lowers the risk of allowing someone else to dip into my bank account. My experience with NetGear was that it was cheap and didn't perform as well as its competitors, but the pricing is very keen. I must admit that this experience is limited to wired and wireless network cards, and unmanaged routers and switches. I worked for a company that could afford to buy the best so there was plenty of Cisco, DLink and HP to compare it against. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Never use PayPal. You sign up to give them absolute access to your bank account That is a blatant lie! How do you give them access into your account? Even if you verify your account, all you have set up is a direct debit and that is no worse than if your mobile phone company took incorrect sums outta your account. If so, tell ur bank to stop the debit. The scenario is no different to PayPal. Also, some of those sights are pure and utter nonsense. I read one - "oh, PayPal keep spamming me". Everyone gets spammed - but it's not paypal that are sending it, the lad said he didn't even have an account. I get spammed by "Paypal" to my hotmail account, even though mines is on GMail. Also, half the time they're not freezing your account in many cases. It has transaction limits - and stipulates that in your account. If you really intend to use and account properly, read the print. If you don't verify your account, you can only spend something like £500 and recieve £1500 (I think), then yes, you'll have to verify, which can take a while because they deposit two small sums into your bank account as verification through a direct debit mandate. That obviously takes a wee while to show up in your statement. Problem is that PayPal can't solve every dispute. That site says 100,000 outstanding cases. Is that really that much? Who says half of it is even their fault? That figure in terms of how many items won on ebay is a drop in the ocean. Half the complaints are fraudulent claims - customers saying that good are "not what they expected" etc. Put yourself in PayPal's position - if the goods are sent back to the seller, a complaint is filed is there is a dispute. Surely they have to side with the buyer as he has not recieved the goods (i.e. he has sent that back). It puts Paypal in the unenviable position of being a mediator between two parties. On a global scale that is impossible. Auctioning is a tricky business and you have to be fairly confident of who you're buying from/selling to. I wouldn't go blaming Paypal. I've been using it for about 2 years now and I have to say, I've not had one single problem with them. Fact is there is no real way to monitor and control online auctioning - it's the nature of the beast. You can't say Paypal is a scam - it's not. They don't make a profit by stealing, they make it by taking a cut of seller transactions and advertising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Good shout on moving this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njugle Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Thanks. Ebay get's a lot of bad publicity like the guest post starting this thread, but being a financially cautious type, i only ever buy from the Ebay "shops" at "buy it now" prices and have never had any problems at all, not even buying from abroad. It's kinda like the internet 'Chris Hodge' in places, you often get what you pay for, cheapness. Paypal may well have their own rules which do not follow banking merchant regulations, but i see them as a secondary buffer between me and the seller, which is a good thing. They also have certain guarantees written into their T&Cs which are not above the law. As Mario says 100,000 complaints pending is a statistic out of context, what percentage of transactions is that? And how many are not paypal complaints as such? The links to paypal complaints sites, well, one seems like a promotional link to direct credit card services- whose site is that? The credit card companies? And the percel guy is not the best example as he sounds a bit dodgy and is drawing his paypal revenues from 'adult content' websites? Hmm, sounds a bit flakey to me. And the recording does show him getting to speak to the appropriate operative and then supervisor who says he will get refunds sent to his customers, or am i missing something? The 180 day rule? Well, if it's in the T&Cs surely no-one can complain, you have to agree to join.The idea of paypal taking money back from a vendor is pretty weird and i'm sure it would make me spit feathers but i'll have to see/hear some more outrageous cases before avoiding Paypal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Never had any bother with either. Just use them when I am buying and so far I can say that everything was as described, mostly was good to excellent value for money and none of my purchases were available in Shetland at that time.....at least with a similar sort of price tag. That said I do not buy when I cant afford to lose the money and it is true that there are some sharks out to get us. It is also true to say that a few simple precautions such as reading descriptions twice and checking feedback can help avoid rip offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 PayPal bashing has been an International passtime almost since PayPal started operating, and that's at least around 7 years ago, and for a lot of that time it didn't belong to ebay, it belonged to Wells Fargo. I'm sure there have been complaints over that time, and I'm sure there still are, some no doubt very valid and justified, but what company doesn't have a certain level of complaints, especially one delivering a service direct to the public at large Take it in perspective, please, the company has been trading apparently very successfully for at least around 7 years, and appears to still be propsering and expanding. *If* they are really as crooked, unethical and incompetent as the doom-mongers allege, and try to have us believe, far more customers would have been affected, and their success far more limited. PayPal claim they service approx 70 Million accounts worldwide, allowing for multiple account holders, I think it's reasonable to assume they may have 20 - 30 Million customers in total....how many different people are bad mouthing them on those anti-PayPal sites, even allowing for it being the tip of the iceberg who have spoken out, what is the percentage of total PayPal customers who are dis-satisfied with the service provided, is that percentage any worse than for any other comparable company?!? PayPal have many faults, that I'm not denying, they did under Wells Fargo, and they still do under ebay. ebay addressed some of the faults Wells Fargo were content to ignore, but also created some fresh ones of their own. So what? Every business owner sets up thir company as they see fit, you try it, and if you don't like it, you don't use it again, that's how the world is. I very much doubt you'll find any business that will please 100% of teh people 100% of the time. In theory at least PayPal could clean out any Bank Account you have registered with them, and/or max out any card you have registered, but as has already been said, so could any company you have them lodged with, PayPal has no greater charging powers to your details than the like of your phone or power company, or anyone else who can charge you Bank Account/Credit Card. In PayPal's line of business where continued trust is paramount to their success, it would be especially unwise to misuse finiancial details they hold, as if proven and publicised even one case could do their business massive damage, whereas the likes of a phone or power company etc have their product reputation to help carry them over it, PayPal do not, their sole business relies on handling the finiancial information they have access to responsibly and competently. If the thought that PayPal or anyone else *might* make unauthorised withdrawals from you Bank Account and/or Card, the solution is simple, register a Bank Account with a nominal balance, and a Card which has a low limit and move funds out and in to/from them as required. As further insurance you can delete you Card details (don't know anout Bank Account without checking) from your profile afte rusing it each time, and re-enter them when you next need to use it. Some statements made on PayPal's site which they insinuate to be fact, are, in my opinion, a matter of opinion, some of the information stated on certain parts of the site, again in my opinion, is being very economical with the facts and the truth, others, in my opinion, are taking liberties with the facts and the truth, and I have told their customer service that. The site is set up and the information given at each stage of use is, again in my opnion, purposely designed to positively influence the customer to make and receive payments in such a way as allows PayPal to make the absolute maximum revenue from each transaction. That said, is any of the preceeding wrong? No, I don't think so, all are standard practices employed by most businesses out there each and every day. How PayPal functions and how they are making their money is, I think, easily found by anyone with average common sense and intelligence who takes the time and trouble to read and understand the site. Work rounds which reduce the vulnerability, either real or imagined, that your finiancial details appear to be exposed to, and also ones which minimise how much profits PayPal make of your particular transaction are both equally easily found. I've both bought and sold on ebay now for 5 1/2 years, the last 3 1/2 on a daily basis, and have used/accepted PayPal from day one. Are they perfect? No definitely not. IMHO their hyped Buyer Protection Program, is in my experience all but usesless, their fee structure leaves much to be desired from a sellers point of view, and their customer service is abysmal, to name the first three compalints which come to mind. Are they adequate? Yes, I think they are. In those 5 1/2 years I have never any significant problem with them, if you understand how PayPal operates, and how their site operates, and play the game by only operating within those parimeters they way you are supposed, there really is litte need for problems to arise. I have never my finiancial details, or funds balance mis-used or mis-appropriated in that time either. PayPal provide a service that no-one else does, could a competitor force them to do better, or do better than they can? Very likely, but right now so such competitor exists, and until they do I'm considerably better of with PayPal a factor in the game than I'd be without them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouth Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Never use PayPal. You sign up to give them absolute access to your bank account That is a blatant lie! How do you give them access into your account? Even if you verify your account, all you have set up is a direct debit and that is no worse than if your mobile phone company took incorrect sums outta your account. If so, tell ur bank to stop the debit. The scenario is no different to PayPal. The first post was mine. I thought that I was logged in but I obviously wasn't! I will explain why my statement is not a lie with a scenario. Imagine that you are selling an expensive item. The buyer will pay you by PayPal. You give him the shipping details once he has paid, lets say a major parcel company with tracking software that you can access on the net is shipping the goods to him. Imagine that the money for PayPal goes into an account that you purely use for that reason and as soon as you get the money paid into there you shift it out to a proper account, or perhaps you dont. Once the seller has got the shipping information he gets onto eBay and says that you have failed to deliver. PayPal does a chargeback on your account and will take the money out of your account. If there is no money in there they will overdraw you. If the account does not have an overdraw facility they will chase you for the money. The debt collectors will call. I understand that you can't stop the parcel once you have sent it with most companies (to stop fraud). PayPal could theoretically max out your credit card if you have your account linked to it!! Direct Debit is sold to people as safe. It just isn't. My ex-wife works for a building society and one day she came home to tell me that a customer had come in to the branch to say that the local council (in Sussex) had taken 3 months rent payments in one day and it left him with insufficient money to live on that month. The bank or building society will tell you that you have given that organisation the permission to access your account. They dont even have to get you to fill in a form when the amount you have to pay them changes. The safest way is a standing order. You have complete control over it. If someone wants to increase the amount or the regularity with which they take money from your account then they have to get you to fill in a new standing order form. Direct debit gives others unfettered access to your account, so does the agreement that you have with PayPal. If you are happy with that then so be it. I am not, so I don't have direct debits or paypal accounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouth Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Thanks. .................And the percel guy is not the best example as he sounds a bit dodgy and is drawing his paypal revenues from 'adult content' websites? Hmm, sounds a bit flakey to me. ............. He is just selling a service. I have no idea what it is. Have you ever bought or read a porn mag ....... ......dodgy character 8O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Never use PayPal. You sign up to give them absolute access to your bank account That is a blatant lie! How do you give them access into your account? Even if you verify your account, all you have set up is a direct debit and that is no worse than if your mobile phone company took incorrect sums outta your account. If so, tell ur bank to stop the debit. The scenario is no different to PayPal. The first post was mine. I thought that I was logged in but I obviously wasn't! I will explain why my statement is not a lie with a scenario. Imagine that you are selling an expensive item. The buyer will pay you by PayPal. You give him the shipping details once he has paid, lets say a major parcel company with tracking software that you can access on the net is shipping the goods to him. Imagine that the money for PayPal goes into an account that you purely use for that reason and as soon as you get the money paid into there you shift it out to a proper account, or perhaps you dont. Once the seller has got the shipping information he gets onto eBay and says that you have failed to deliver. PayPal does a chargeback on your account and will take the money out of your account. If there is no money in there they will overdraw you. If the account does not have an overdraw facility they will chase you for the money. The debt collectors will call. I would question if this scenario could actually occur, I've not had to address one identical to it, so stand corrected if wrong. It would seem to me though that if you shipped the item in good faith, and have proof of dispatch, the issue is then between the shipping company and PayPal, and if the shipping company can prove they delivered it to the given address, it then becomes an issue between your buyer and PayPal. Your proof of dispatch is after all your receipt from the shipping company that they have accepted full responsibility for the item, and unless they can provide proof someone in turn accepted responsibility for it from them, responsibility for it remains with them as the last provable possessor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njugle Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Thanks. .................And the percel guy is not the best example as he sounds a bit dodgy and is drawing his paypal revenues from 'adult content' websites? Hmm, sounds a bit flakey to me. ............. He is just selling a service. I have no idea what it is. Have you ever bought or read a porn mag ....... ......dodgy character 8O No! I do love eating seafood, but i'm not about to go out and buy magazines about it! I didn't even know there were magazines about prons. But, seriously, no i haven't bought anything of the sort. If that makes me dodgy, then so be it. Put it this way, i like motorbikes too, but i don't buy mags to look at them either. I'm too much of a tight wad I just lift mags from the doctors waiting room instead You'll not find that one on moneysavingexpert.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouth Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 I would question if this scenario could actually occur, I've not had to address one identical to it, so stand corrected if wrong. I have read a story of it happening, but it was some time ago and long since flushed out of the cache. There was a good story about an American who sent a Mac powerbook to the UK - Finchley Road, London, if memory serves. He knew that the guy was trying to scam him so he sent some heavy books instead. The scamming buyer ended up paying £500 in customs duties. It was a brilliant tale. I will have to see if I can find it and post the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouth Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Got it!! Well worth a read ...... http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 BigMouth wroteGot it!! Well worth a read ...... http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/ Brilliant......well worth reading Thanks for sharing the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigMouth Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 I remember a friend of mine being scammed at work on eBay. I believe that he was buying a digital camera. He sent the money and didn't get the goods. In the end people started leaving bad feedback on the seller, then started emailing each other. There was almost 80 of them. In the end the guy handed himself into a Police station in Scotland with £20,000 that he had defrauded people out of on eBay. There is someone else on Shetland that I know that lost what I would consider a large sum of money on eBay. I am not sure if he would want it publicising so I will contact him and see if he minds me telling the story, or if he will come on here himself. I bought some dummy mobile phones which didn't get sent. After 3 weeks I left negative feedback and they were then sent. In another case I bought a mouse and paid for special delivery. The seller sent it by normal post with insufficient postage, so I had to pay the excess. Recently I bought a quality stapler, but the guy didn't actually have any so he sent me 3 cheap ones instead. I had a seller who refused to complete the transaction for a Psion netPad. All minor problems, but rates as about 3% of my transactions. The buyer and seller protection schemes are a joke. It takes weeks to get any money back, and then only if you fit into really narrow criteria. A well respected techie site, The Register, sum it all up nicely on this page: - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/16/petty_fraudsters_ebay/ I still use eBay, but I try to be sensible about the risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peeriebryan Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Got it!! Well worth a read ...... http://www.zug.com/pranks/powerbook/ An excellent story! It remeinded me of a friend of mine who wrote a cheeky email to the American army who replied with a military grade virus Its good to see the scammers getting a tast of their own medicine I've had a few 'bad' experiences on eBay. The first was with a guy who I bought a bass amp from. I explained that I needed it pronto for a gig and he agreed to send it that day if I paid by Paypal using my credit card so his account would be credited instantly (which cost me a good few percent extra). I did so and never heard form him for another 2 weeks, by which time I had played the gig using a hired amp, costing me another £30. When he eventually replied to me, he said he had "come into some money" (i.e. the bloody money I had given him) so decided at the last minute to go on holiday. It took another 2 weeks for him to send it off because he couldn't find a cardboard box the right size to put it in Another was with a T shirt vendor called Mr Cloud (look them up and have and check their feedback, like I should have done before I handed over the cash. The worst I've ever seen). Its a long story of items being 'lost in the post' problems with their email account, telling me they didn't have proof of payment, item being out of stock etc etc. I eventually got a very poor quality T Shirt after 3 months with a handwritten note saying that if I left bad feedback, they would ruin my 100% positive feedback in retaliation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.