JAStewart Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Yay or nay? I am writing a 5000 word dissertation for advanced higher modern studies about the issue and so far my thoughts are that it should NOT be introduced because from what I have researched, there seems to be very limited good information about ID cards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Yay or nay? I am writing a 5000 word dissertation for advanced higher modern studies about the issue and so far my thoughts are that it should NOT be introduced because from what I have researched, there seems to be very limited good information about ID cards. i'm for it in principail, if you get for example plane tickeds you cant get that tickets unless you take you passport even if its to Aberdeen - ext even joining a video lending scheem etc you need adentification etc, haveing a hand card with you all the time would be a handy wee thing to have. i dont agree if i have to pay for it though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted February 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Here is some information regarding Identity cards. Its the rough draft of my dissertation: www.jastewart.co.uk/dissertation.doc Enjoy, its a kinda length but digestable read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I laugh at the sheer ineptitude of those attempting to push this bill through! An IT undertaking of this size is, to be frank, pie in the sky - blue sky thinking! IT projects - let alone those managed by local or national government!! - never deliver anything near what they first intended. That unfortunately is fact! A grand example of wasted millions and a system that didn't work was the initial £5M odd DVLA Vehicle System Software (VSS) outsourced to EDS. It failed to deliver anything near the cost cutting percentage it promised. Though this was partly due to the fact it was outsourced and improperly managed - this is just one example of many regarding government IT projects! Another nail in its coffin is the sheer fact that a database of this magnitude, holding the type of information it purports to - and peoples lives in its balance - will not work. Look at the mess that was/is the CSA and it's by order of magnitude minute database and IT infrastructure/systems! Another grand example of wasted millions and government planning and project management, though not IT based, is the Scottish Parliament - everybody is aware of that balls up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njugle Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 i'm for it in principail, if you get for example plane tickeds you cant get that tickets unless you take you passport even if its to Aberdeen - ext even joining a video lending scheem etc you need adentification etc, haveing a hand card with you all the time would be a handy wee thing to have. i dont agree if i have to pay for it though! Case in point, we would then need both our passports and ID cards to travel anywhere. Then comes the sinister americanised bit, do they then legislate that we carry them at all times? Or hit us from behind and legilate that businesses or services require ID on demand? And all the while the ingenious forgers- particularly in the far east- will be turning out fakes, unless the cards are so technical that they would cost a fortune? Then where do you draw the line? Psychometrics? Biometrics have already been proven unreliable. The only definitive ID is DNA and that's an infringement on human rights and basic freedoms in the extreme, Big Brother, Orwellian style. Get born, get DNA swabbed, get tracked for life, commit no offence, however trivial. Yes a wee card could be handy at times, but what your looking at is the biggest customer loyalty scheme in the world. Who makes the gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutatedbox Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Depending on on if they are just "ID" cards they can be quite a usefull little tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 ID cards?.....seems to me I have had to carry some sort of ID card for most of the past 25 years......entry cards for MOD establishments, taxi drivers licence and now a photo driving licence so I can get on the plane south. Why not ID cards for all?. Cost perhaps but otherwise should not the real debate be about what data is on the cards, who may ask to see them and who may demand to see them?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 what your looking at is the biggest customer loyalty scheme in the world. Love it! Yes exactly ... we are talking totalitarian Orwelian 1984 society. Your Nectar card is a pre-cursor to this madness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutatedbox Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I don't think we are anywhere near Orwell's 1984. Do we have camera's in our households Governing our every action. ID cards will merely let people know that we are who we say we are and in my opinion this is perfectly welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njugle Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 I don't think we are anywhere near Orwell's 1984. Do we have camera's in our households Governing our every action. ID cards will merely let people know that we are who we say we are and in my opinion this is perfectly welcome. Not to get side-tracked, but without any sinister element to it, Google and probably all the other search providers can track every enquiry you ever make. The current Urban myth is that they know more about you than the government. Maybe not a camera in your home (unless you have a webcam), but a log of your "thoughts" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trout Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 ID cards?.....seems to me I have had to carry some sort of ID card for most of the past 25 years......entry cards for MOD establishments, taxi drivers licence and now a photo driving licence so I can get on the plane south. Why not ID cards for all?. Cost perhaps but otherwise should not the real debate be about what data is on the cards, who may ask to see them and who may demand to see them?. Yes. Your NI number is another one. All of those mentioned and your NI number associate you with certain aspects of your life. However, one ID card containing all these aspects in one .. will mean, and believe me it will move in that direction!, anything you do will be associated against a metric in a database. Yes it will! Why would they not put your bank account transactions against anything .. blah blah? This IS a violation of your rights! Yes .. you could track "evil" people .. but that is the case in point .. some government official sitting somewhere pulling your metrics and producing a pre-determined report against you without your knowledge will land you in a postion if you are wrongly accused of something per say? Have you ever read Aldous Huxleys' "Brave New World"? - a brilliant take on the philosophical perception of Hume - that in my opinion IS ID cards - the proletariat sucking away quite the thing on Soma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowe Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Oh my god! I feel really paranoid now. The thought police are coming 8O Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distortio Posted February 11, 2006 Report Share Posted February 11, 2006 Oh my god! I feel really paranoid now. The thought police are coming 8O and now they know you thought that... how long has that black car been parked across the street? we're being sold these cards on the false premise (just for a change) that they will stop terrorism. i'm sure all those suicide bombers we're told are just waiting for the chance to splatter themselves across the country will be having second thoughts, knowing that with the help of these cards their remains could be tracked, scraped up and ruddy well prosecuted to bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted February 12, 2006 Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 Prevention of terrorism is the one thing that a national ID card would not prevent. Well that and serious crime as I assume those groups will have the rescources and the will to avoid being found by not having an ID card or by having either a fake or a stolen ID. That said I think the card would help with the detection and prevention of lower level crime and if biometrics were used (fingerprint or eye scan) things like benefit fraud would soon become a thing of the past. My current belief is that ID cards will be with us in a few years and meanwhile the debate has to be about the information stored in the card and who can get at that data. For example I think it would be reasonable for a traffic cop to get details of a driving licence from the card and for the casualty department of a hospital to get basic medical details from an unconscious person. Two other aspects should also be discussed before the cards become a reality. How much will they cost and what help will be available for poor people?. What rules will be in force as to when and where the cards have to be carried?. As for sinister snooping there is a real fear that all this data could be combined to compile a data file with far too much information for an individuals comfort. Rules do need to be in place (and enforced) so that loyalty cards etc only have purchase details. In fact the data held by some of the companies that collate data about us (ever filled in a questionaire?) might be of more concern that a government ID card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted February 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2006 My current belief is that ID cards will be with us in a few years and meanwhile the debate has to be about the information stored in the card and who can get at that data. Currently, your first point seems unlikely. The ID cards bill has been defeated in the house of Lords three times in one month, so the government has realised that it will have to change the policy, which means that they could make it voluntary instead of compulsary, which in turn means that it would be a rather useless system. It needs to be all or nothing. On your second point, this is very true. Currently the government are leaving the bill open ended so that means that once its passed they can abuse this ability and change whatever is stored on the card at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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