ID cards

[JustMe]

Sort of related is a mailing I got today from the admin of the air discount scheme. I was sent flyers from Leasks and Scotia travel promoting short breaks using the air discount scheme. Not sure that using the database for a junk mailing to Shetland........I think also Orkney and the Western Isles.....is a proper use of the data supplied when I applied for the card.

 

As far as the bus pass is concerned we have a new greatly improved bus pass offering free bus travel from Unst to the Borders. As a condition of being given this new card we have to supply information........not yet having seen the form I do not know what is compulsory.....and I will have no problem giving my data to get my pass. Where I think Mr. Hill may have a point is that he already had a Shetland bus and inter island ferry pass valid within Shetland and I do think that he should be able to use that pass until it reaches its sell by date.

[peeriebryan]

Sort of related is a mailing I got today from the admin of the air discount scheme. I was sent flyers from Leasks and Scotia travel promoting short breaks using the air discount scheme. Not sure that using the database for a junk mailing to Shetland........I think also Orkney and the Western Isles.....is a proper use of the data supplied when I applied for the card.

I had a look through the air discount scheme website and noted they don't even have a basic privacy policy, which is standard practice for any organisation to which you submit personal info

 

However, on the actual application form, I found this

The data controller of your personal details will be the Scottish Executive. We will only use the information you have provided to process your application for residents’ air fare discount.

If the Scottish Executive "data controller" has passed on your details to commercial companies (or anyone else), I'd say that's a VERY serious breach of confidentiality. I'd urge folk to contact the air discount scheme administrators and register your disapproval

 

That's a perfect example of why there shouldn't be a national database of personal information

[Heimdal]

The flyers from Scotia Travel and Leasks were enclosed with an information leaflet and sent from the Air Discount Scheme address in Inverness. There were no names on the envelope, just 'Air Discount Scheme Member' then the postal address. Nothing too sensitive there that I can see. Of course, if you decide to book through the ADTS, you then have to supply your details and PIN !

[peeriebryan]

I see Hiemdal

 

That's not so bad (but it is still junk mail I suppose)

[JustMe]

Did not notice the lack of name........BUT........if this is a mailing only to people who have signed up to the air discount scheme which is more or less what the "letter" claims then it is still using the data base which still makes me think that this is not a proper use of said database.

[Wheesht]

Sort of related is a mailing I got today from the admin of the air discount scheme. I was sent flyers from Leasks and Scotia travel promoting short breaks using the air discount scheme. Not sure that using the database for a junk mailing to Shetland........I think also Orkney and the Western Isles.....is a proper use of the data supplied when I applied for the card.

 

That's not junk mail!

 

They are great deals for flights and hotel accomodation in three Scottish cities and I'm going to take one up. Nothing wrong with it.

[DamnSaxon]

I was one of those who got a copy of Blair's email. Here it is in full:

 

E-petition: Response from the Prime Minister

 

The e-petition to "scrap the proposed introduction of ID cards" has now closed. The petition stated that "The introduction of ID cards will not prevent terrorism or crime, as is claimed. It will be yet another indirect tax on all law-abiding citizens of the UK". This is a response from the Prime Minister, Tony Blair.

 

The petition calling for the Government to abandon plans for a National ID Scheme attracted almost 28,000 signatures - one of the largest responses since this e-petition service was set up. So I thought I would reply personally to those who signed up, to explain why the Government believes National ID cards, and the National Identity Register needed to make them effective, will help make Britain a safer place.

 

The petition disputes the idea that ID cards will help reduce crime or terrorism. While I certainly accept that ID cards will not prevent all terrorist outrages or crime, I believe they will make an important contribution to making our borders more secure, countering fraud, and tackling international crime and terrorism. More importantly, this is also what our security services - who have the task of protecting this country - believe.

 

So I would like to explain why I think it would be foolish to ignore the opportunity to use biometrics such as fingerprints to secure our identities. I would also like to discuss some of the claims about costs - particularly the way the cost of an ID card is often inflated by including in estimates the cost of a biometric passport which, it seems certain, all those who want to travel abroad will soon need.

 

In contrast to these exaggerated figures, the real benefits for our country and its citizens from ID cards and the National Identity Register, which will contain less information on individuals than the data collected by the average store card, should be delivered for a cost of around £3 a year over its ten-year life.

 

But first, it's important to set out why we need to do more to secure our identities and how I believe ID cards will help. We live in a world in which people, money and information are more mobile than ever before. Terrorists and international criminal gangs increasingly exploit this to move undetected across borders and to disappear within countries. Terrorists routinely use multiple identities - up to 50 at a time. Indeed this is an essential part of the way they operate and is specifically taught at Al-Qaeda training camps. One in four criminals also uses a false identity. ID cards which contain biometric recognition details and which are linked to a National Identity Register will make this much more difficult.

 

Secure identities will also help us counter the fast-growing problem of identity fraud. This already costs £1.7 billion annually. There is no doubt that building yourself a new and false identity is all too easy at the moment. Forging an ID card and matching biometric record will be much harder.

 

I also believe that the National Identity Register will help police bring those guilty of serious crimes to justice. They will be able, for example, to compare the fingerprints found at the scene of some 900,000 unsolved crimes against the information held on the register. Another benefit from biometric technology will be to improve the flow of information between countries on the identity of offenders.

 

The National Identity Register will also help improve protection for the vulnerable, enabling more effective and quicker checks on those seeking to work, for example, with children. It should make it much more difficult, as has happened tragically in the past, for people to slip through the net.

 

Proper identity management and ID cards also have an important role to play in preventing illegal immigration and illegal working. The effectiveness on the new biometric technology is, in fact, already being seen. In trials using this technology on visa applications at just nine overseas posts, our officials have already uncovered 1,400 people trying illegally to get back into the UK.

 

Nor is Britain alone in believing that biometrics offer a massive opportunity to secure our identities. Firms across the world are already using fingerprint or iris recognition for their staff. France, Italy and Spain are among other European countries already planning to add biometrics to their ID cards. Over 50 countries across the world are developing biometric passports, and all EU countries are proposing to include fingerprint biometrics on their passports. The introduction in 2006 of British e-passports incorporating facial image biometrics has meant that British passport holders can continue to visit the United States without a visa. What the National Identity Scheme does is take this opportunity to ensure we maximise the benefits to the UK.

 

These then are the ways I believe ID cards can help cut crime and terrorism. I recognise that these arguments will not convince those who oppose a National Identity Scheme on civil liberty grounds. They will, I hope, be reassured by the strict safeguards now in place on the data held on the register and the right for each individual to check it. But I hope it might make those who believe ID cards will be ineffective reconsider their opposition.

 

If national ID cards do help us counter crime and terrorism, it is, of course, the law-abiding majority who will benefit and whose own liberties will be protected. This helps explain why, according to the recent authoritative Social Attitudes survey, the majority of people favour compulsory ID cards.

 

I am also convinced that there will also be other positive benefits. A national ID card system, for example, will prevent the need, as now, to take a whole range of documents to establish our identity. Over time, they will also help improve access to services.

 

The petition also talks about cost. It is true that individuals will have to pay a fee to meet the cost of their ID card in the same way, for example, as they now do for their passports. But I simply don't recognise most claims of the cost of ID cards. In many cases, these estimates deliberately exaggerate the cost of ID cards by adding in the cost of biometric passports. This is both unfair and inaccurate.

 

As I have said, it is clear that if we want to travel abroad, we will soon have no choice but to have a biometric passport. We estimate that the cost of biometric passports will account for 70% of the cost of the combined passports/id cards. The additional cost of the ID cards is expected to be less than £30 or £3 a year for their 10-year lifespan. Our aim is to ensure we also make the most of the benefits these biometric advances bring within our borders and in our everyday lives.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Tony Blair

 

I am not a number. I am a free man.

 

This government makes my flesh crawl.

[JAStewart]

I wrote my 6th year dissertation on ID Cards. I was highly critical. Although now, I don't know. I have nothing to hide.

[markj]

Does any other countries have ID Cards?

[DamnSaxon]

Does any other countries have ID Cards?

 

Yes, but mostly (until the UK started throwing its weight around) much simpler and non-biometric. E.g. a friend who recently lived in the Netherlands had one, it had his photo and "an address where he could be reached" - none of this every-last-detail stuff Blair wants.

 

I wondered whether you'd move it - I thought it was a bit large to put in just as a post & wanted it to act informationally.

 

Anyway, you now know (if you could be bothered to wade through it) that TB doesn't give a fig what anyone thinks, he's darn well going to give us a police state anyway. And as people knock down his reasons one by one, others will pop up like weeds.

 

I never thought I'd say it, but it's almost enough to make me vote Tory - at least they say they're against the "database state".

[peeriebryan]

(** mod edit - stuck the new ID card thread to the tail of the old one **)

[DamnSaxon]

(** mod edit - stuck the new ID card thread to the tail of the old one **)

 

Is this one of your chimp tricks??

 

Anyway, that's not suposed to be a tail, it's supposed to be a sword.

[vailron]

i have no objection to i.d cards. but it should be a combine i.d card, passport and national insurance card

[sassermaet]

I wrote my 6th year dissertation on ID Cards. I was highly critical. Although now, I don't know. I have nothing to hide.

 

And indeed you should have been highly critical! Whenever I've been in a conversation that has gotten onto the subject of ID cards I've heard nothing but opposition of them.

 

Indeed I agree with the earlier point of how ironic it seems that the undemocratic House of Lords is the only organisation that is stopping the country from becoming totalitarian. But at least it shows they've got some sense in their heads for all that.

 

A good friend I was talking to mentioned being in a country where ID cards are compulsory. The police did a random raid in a bar one night, two men had forgotten their ID cards and were dragged away for failing to produce them. You could never imagine that happening here as far as I'm concerned.

[Scoobysue]

I've never really had an opinion about i.d. cards one way or t'other but now I've hatched one. I am not in favour of them.

 

The reason is that my photo driving licence was in my purse when it got stolen last May. The licence was recovered, along with a couple of credit cards which were, by then cancelled, and those items were shown to me for identification purposes then retained for evidence in the event of any court proceedings. Of the two scumbags involved, perp one was tried last October then bound over for good behaviour to reappear in court this coming April.

 

Meantime, I moved house and wanted to update my licence details, as is the law, so I phoned up the evidence depot (or whatever they're called) and they told me I only get my licence back 30 days after the end of any court proceedings and it must be retained if scumbag decides to appeal.

 

Ten months later, I still don't have my photo driving licence which can be tricky if I want to hire a car and I've still not updated my address with the DVLA so am, in effect, breaking the law. Also, I have to carry my passport any time I travel by plane as it's the only goverenment issued photo i.d. I currently possess.

 

So, imagine some scumbag steals your wallet/purse/handbag with your i.d. card inside it. Do you become effectively a non-citizen while the superslow judiciary grinds its wheels and your i.d. card languishes in an evidence store somewhere?