Shetland and the European Union

[MuckleJoannie]

(**Moderator Edit - Split from "New Shetland Political Party" thread.**)

 

HacksawDuggan wrote:

peeriebryan wrote:

 

Anti EU? Surely not a good thing for Shetland

 

 

 

 

Where did you get this notion from?

 

I tink dis een needs a debate. Da EU has been a total disaster for da fishing industry. Hooever it has poored millions o pounds for rods and ither infrastructure. In a previous life I was responsible for submitting several million pounds o EU money for development projects. Da question is has Shetland made a net benefit fae da EU?

[islandhopper]

In a previous life I was responsible for submitting several million pounds o EU money for development projects

... as was me ...

 

Just therefore:

Da question is has Shetland made a net benefit fae da EU?

Ist it???

Or should the question be:

Can you exist - on a long term scale - without the EU???

[Ghostrider]

In a previous life I was responsible for submitting several million pounds o EU money for development projects

... as was me ...

 

Just therefore:

Da question is has Shetland made a net benefit fae da EU?

Ist it???

Or should the question be:

Can you exist - on a long term scale - without the EU???

 

Can we even exist long term with them? Shetland is what it is due to the oil industry and central Government funds in the shape of Rate Support Grant (or whatever they call it now), neither can be relied upon.

 

It's almost become a cliche to state that Shetland has always been a place of boom and bust, and our oil boom days are on the wane, what then, what do we export, or could we export in enough quantity to remain solvent? There's aquaculture and tourism of course, but the former has demonstrated how it can as easily be a millstone as a godsend in the recent past, and the latter has always been fickle and seasonal at best. Fisheries and agriculture have always been what has carried Shetland through the leaner times in the past, but both are in their death throes. Perhaps it was inevitable their demise occured anyway, there are far too many factors in play to make a judgement call, but I think it's fair to say both the UK Government and the European Government have done nothing of substance to prevent their demise, and some would say, particularly in the case of Shetland's agriculture, that they've positively encouraged it's near extinction.

 

Take oil out of the loop entirely and I forsee a far reaching chain reaction being caused that brings this house of cards tumbling down to half it's current size, and past European investment being rendered pointless and useless, as there won't be enough people left here to take adequate advantage of it, or make adequate use of it.

[Styumpie]

Shetland could be a powerhouse for renewable energy, not only exporting electricity but also the production of hydrogen. This might seem trivial at the moment, but in 15-20 years things will be different. We need to be taking action now. We could go from rags to riches in years to come.

 

 

We need to make sure that our riches from the oil boom years are put to good use creating jobs/industry/business opportunities that will make the isles rich in years to come, and not just keep squandering it on expensive over-engineered public buildings etc. We need to use our savvy and invest in the future. We need to put business minded people in charge of the council and run the isles like a business.

 

We cannot afford to slip into a situation where we’re relying on handouts from the rest of the UK, this will be a disaster.

 

At the moment we are going nowhere. Change with the times, or succumb to poverty. Take your pick.

[Pooks]

I have to agree in a way. The current council (and those before) seem to look at the current situation rather than the future. They don't seem to take into account the fact that all these brilliant services that are created now will cost tenfold to run/replace in the future.

 

I have to disagree with the 'throw everything at renewable energy' though. This would be great if it all turns out rosy, the problem is that renewable energy is still in its infancy. Nobody knows at the moment what technology is likely to succumb the other. Invest in the wrong thing and you have just thrown your piggy bank away. This isn't to say that we shouldn't invest in it to a certain degree, just don't go overboard. Something which the council seems to be quite apt at doing. A very much all or nothing approach.

 

Unfortunately nuclear energy still seems to be the most likely to succeed at the moment. Not many people want a nuclear station on their doorstep. Then again Shetland has a good few outlying islands looking for new employment...

[islandhopper]

@Ghostwriter

I agree with your analysis of the past – but that was the past, not the future I was talking about. Traditinal industries like fishing and farming will go down as they went down since medieval times more or less continously and despite all peak seasons in between. But it is a mistake to believe that Shetland as a whole could exist on fishing and farming, neither on todays level nor on yesterdays level. Nevertheless it should be the bloody job for the politicians to see to it, that at least some communities, those which have the best chances, can survive on these economic grounds. This will not be achieved by fishing quotas or so, but by a more general approach only: Local ressources left to the responsibility of local people – similar to that what happened as a result of the Faeroese fight for their right of "natural" whaling.

 

I am not that pessimistic about the future role of tourism and the oil business. The problem is how we tackle the challenges, to make sure that those alternatives will be developed into solid platforms. It is far more than an intellectual game or an experiment in mind, but try to look at tourism as your future approach/aequivalent to farming and the oil including the offshore and decommissioning work as your future approach/aequivalent to fishing. Take them with their potentials and risks as serious as you have taken farming and fishing in the past.

 

If we set tourism in place of farming and the oil in place of fishing let's than rethink about two simple questions:

Would you allow a 600MW wind energy park within your fields?

Would you allow your new fishing grounds beeing sealed off by a bridge?

In the moment you are doing both: For a short sighted profit you are putting your natural values at risk and for some councillers' monument you are undermining your industrial future.

 

You happily can do so, you have some nice oil funds, of course. Resolving the problems from our two little questions in a propper way, you would have to invest into

- new alternative energy ressources like wave energy and hydrogen (not to talk about a cable linking to the national grid)

- the improvement of accomodation and first of all transport (Atlantic or Smyril or something different are minor questions at this stage)

- alternatives for a bridge to Bressay (either a tunnel or improved ferry capacities)

- harbour development from dredging to the development of new on shore sites

and all that backed by the hopes that there will be no second Braer desaster.

 

Sorry, but how many funds do you have in your bag? Never mind, you could have threetimes as much as you have and it would not be enough to cover both the future challenges and to keep the daily businesses running with today's standards.

 

That is exactly the point, where the EU steps into the match – at least with its funding system and despite all risks encluded in the system. It will not secure an endless future but you have a good chance to build a solid basis for the next 20 to 30 years. All the rest might be good for some 5 to 10 years in some kind of a 'splendid isolation' … followed by a horrable crash.

[Styumpie]

have to disagree with the 'throw everything at renewable energy' though. This would be great if it all turns out rosy, the problem is that renewable energy is still in its infancy. Nobody knows at the moment what technology is likely to succumb the other. Invest in the wrong thing and you have just thrown your piggy bank away. This isn't to say that we shouldn't invest in it to a certain degree, just don't go overboard. Something which the council seems to be quite apt at doing. A very much all or nothing approach.

 

I agree. No one can look into the future, but we need to be ready to capitalise should there become a market. I think there probably will be a market someday. We have to conserve money for this, and any other possibilities, and not keep wasting it on unsustainable services.

 

I also think it helps if we can become more self-sufficient. The first step would be an investment in renewable power for the people of Shetland, this would help cut electricity bills. People would see a real financial gain from it. It would affect us all in a positive way, it would also be a good experiment and good experience should there ever become a market.

 

 

If we set tourism in place of farming and the oil in place of fishing let's than rethink about two simple questions:

Would you allow a 600MW wind energy park within your fields?

 

It's all about timing, IF and when there becomes a strong market for renewable power, only then we should be capitalising, but we should be making provisions now for this, so we are ready to capitalise when the opportunity arises. I dont think tourism will ever be a real money spinner, it just takes the economy to nose dive and that market is wiped out, and as the oil fields in the north sea continue to deplete I cant see much of a future for it either.

 

I own a fair chunk of land here in the Isles, land is used for providing a harvest, and if it is profitable to have wind turbines then I would definitely without hesitation allow it. A wind turbine It's not a permanent structure, it can easily be removed should the need be, so it's not going to destroy Shetland, however if you have an accident with nuclear you will destroy Shetland for good. Nuclear is NOT and never will be an option in my view.

 

I have a gut feeling that the UK debt fuelled miracle economy will be entering dark times over the next few years to come. I dont expect things to continue along the way there going at the moment.

[Tom]

The current council (and those before) seem to look at the current situation rather than the future. They don't seem to take into account the fact that all these brilliant services that are created now will cost tenfold to run/replace in the future.

 

Well the problem with politicians is that they only look so far into the future as the next election.