Dignity

[Ghostrider]

@ paulb: Could you answer one question? What right do you or anyone else have to dictate to me, or anyone else, how I or they choose to end their own life?

 

Nobody is proposing forcing anybody to end their own life unless they choose to do so uninfluenced, nor is anyone proposing anyone else be put in to a position of ending somebody else's life unless they agree to do so with their proposed victim, and they then choose to see that death through. This being the case, I'm seriously struggling to understand what the problem is with anyone who doesn't believe such an arrangement is for them, being so adamant that "just because I don't want this happening to me, I won't let anyone else, who does want it for themselves, to have it happen for them either".

[paulb]

of course its YOUR choice.

peat most of your post i agree with. if you have knowledge of a doctor using pain meds to kill a patient earlier than they should then as a civil duty you should report it. the wife is one of those trying to improve the care and treatment of dying folks. possibly one reason im so anti assisted suicide there is so much that can be done to support and maintain the patient at home in comfort. the major problem at the moment is social care or the lack of it. if the patient is close to death within a few weeks then they should get all the support they need and want. sadly this does not happen.

[paulb]

@ paulb: Could you answer one question? What right do you or anyone else have to dictate to me, or anyone else, how I or they choose to end their own life?

 

Nobody is proposing forcing anybody to end their own life unless they choose to do so uninfluenced, nor is anyone proposing anyone else be put in to a position of ending somebody else's life unless they agree to do so with their proposed victim, and they then choose to see that death through. This being the case, I'm seriously struggling to understand what the problem is with anyone who doesn't believe such an arrangement is for them, being so adamant that "just because I don't want this happening to me, I won't let anyone else, who does want it for themselves, to have it happen for them either".

im not dictating to you your choice of death. i am opposed to you getting the medical professionals involved. if you are of sound mind and terminal kill yourself if your sure thats what you want. even a loved one helping you wont get prosecuted for helping you no case in the last 4 years.

 

involving the law and others and you get creep as in belgium. but as i was saying there are very few cases where an overdose would be the best treatment. how a palliative person is cared and treat can have a major impact on how they die. our first concern should be to insure that we have the best care that money can buy. that is the urgent priority. not new laws that neither the doctors nor nurses want to be part of.

[Ghostrider]

of course its YOUR choice.

 

The idea of legalised assisted suicide is to give people who want to make the choice of death, to be able to achieve it. Without it anyone who has deteriorated to the point of not being able to commit suicide themselves is being denied that choice.

 

there is so much that can be done to support and maintain the patient at home in comfort.

 

That's all very admirable for those who want to hang in until the last gasp, but it doesn't recognise the right of the patient to choose to cash their chips in when they want to. Supporting and maintaining a patient at home in comfort is not necessarily what every patient wants, when folk have reached that level of dependency, not all consider their quality of life is worth anything to them.

[Ghostrider]

im not dictating to you your choice of death.

 

But, you are. By wanting assisted sucicide to remain illegal, you are denying me, and potentially others a method of death I may well have to end up consider choosing.

 

i am opposed to you getting the medical professionals involved.

 

Oh, believe me, SO AM I! Given the pig's ear a few of them have made of my life, I wouldn't trust them anywhere near my death.

 

 

even a loved one helping you wont get prosecuted for helping you no case in the last 4 years.

 

 

This is the crux of the issue, and we're going round in circles, as we've been here before. As legislation currently stands anyone choosing to assist another in suicide is risking being labelled and treated as a criminal. Just because the CPS etc have "chosen" not to proceed with any case in four years doesn't lessen the fact assisted suicide is still a crime on the statute books, and they could equally choose at any time they see fit to start prosecuting it.

 

Just the thought if not the principle of what they are considering doing is technically a criminal act, will put many off assisting a suicide, when they otherwise would have been quite happy to do so. That in and of itself is denying folk who want their suicide assisted from achieving what they choose for themselves.

 

This is as much about the Government either pissing, or getting off the pot as anything else. Assisted suicide is still technically murder/culpable homicide (depending on your POV) on the statute books, yet the prosecution service chooses to ignore that fact. That in an of itself is a fudge, it is sending out mixed messages and is an untenable stance to cling to permanently.

 

Either its legal or its illegal, their is no other viable option, and the rules need to be in place to support and police whatever is legal. Right now, all opinions are trying to have their cake and eat it, and its leaving one camp without credibility and the other in a legal vacuum which could disintegrate around their ears on the whim of one pen pusher.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Oh Heaven forbid we take responsibility for our own life and death......

 

MY life

MY body

MY death

MY choice

 

NOT the NHS's or any other folk's.

 

I think I'll get a T-Shirt printed.....

 

Oh Heaven forbid we take responsibility for our own life and death......

 

MY life

MY body

MY death

MY choice

 

NOT the NHS's or any other folk's.

 

I think I'll get a T-Shirt printed.....

 

Don't bring "life" into it, they already dictate in law certain things you can and can't do because as sane adults, we couldn't simply want to do certain things of our own free will!

 

Let me know when the T-shirts go on sale.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Suffererof1crankymofo

[shetlandpeat]

of course its YOUR choice.

snip... if you have knowledge of a doctor using pain meds to kill a patient earlier than they should then as a civil duty you should report it. ...snip

Although surveys have been taken where nearly 70% of respondants have indicated they have manipulated doses to eliviate suffering, it will always be very difficult firstly to bring to court, in the public interest clauses and the proof that administering opiates to someone who is extreme pain after the diagnosis of death was the cause or contributary cause of death and secondly, keeping the body on ice for post mortems and criminal investigations will not be in the interest of the patient of the family. Only the heartless would pursue such a case. For instance, how could it be proved that the meds administered in compliance to prescriptions and care plans did not bring about the end. Should then that person be investigated for manslaughter?

 

This is why there needs to be a change, I hope those who are partners who post on this will have this discussion and those who have read this then go on to talk about what they want. This is more about what the goal of my part of theis long and drawn out campaign is about. The biggest hurdle is get folks to talk to each other about this, we are all just a flickering flame in the furnace that is life, this is one thing that we can control if needed.

 

No where in my posts or links have I mentioned that medical practitioners should administer the lethal dose, many who have taken such a dose in the survey in the USA I linked to did so without the doctor being there.

 

Paul, I believe both should be there, money made available for the support of folk, and the means for folk to make sound and infomed choices on how long that should last for.

 

It is no way a slippery slope, believe me, it is not. what other countries do can act as a warning or as a guide, we in this country are lucky that we are able to debate this, from forum such as these to writing to Lords and MPs and having you voice aired.

 

What ever differences we may display within these forum, the crux is, really, we do care. I hope there is no malice, just gesticulation and an enticement to prompt the debate.

 

Now, it is raining and I need to get to the shops for my messages.

[paulb]

of course there is not any malice we just see things differently. nothing wrong with that. this new law will require 2 doctors to agree. that involves the medical profession. people see palliative medicine as a failure when in reality its a highly specialized area  its an area thats always been neglected which is a pity as dying is after all part of life. the wife is always affected when one of her patients dies but she also knows she has done her best to help them. she like me could not take part in assisting to kill someone. but thats our view. each to there own view

[shetlandpeat]

Sue Ryder Hospice has produced a report called "A Time and a Place" some may find it interesting. It is a little saddening that folk think they will not get the care they will need at the end if they stay at home where their heart is, amongst familiar surroundings and family.

 

http://www.sueryder.org/About-us/Policy-and-campaigns/Our-campaigns/Dying-isnt-working/~/media/Files/About-us/A-Time-and-a-Place-Sue-Ryder.ashx

[shetlandpeat]

It seems more folk are going abroad to end their lives and free themselves from the chains they are tired of carrying.

 

Nan Maitland featured on the Jeremy Vine show...

 

Extracts from a spiritualist forum....

 

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/archive/index.php?t-13741.html

 

The issue is, folk are going and doing this using another countries law, one we have no control over. We cannot bar them, pointless taking the carer to court so why would it be better to have our own guidlins so we can give folk like Nan the choice and be free of any worry and end her life in the UK?

[shetlandpeat]

From the BMJ 10 years ago...

 

 

Just over half of British doctors questioned in a survey say they would welcome a law that allows them to help terminally ill people to end their life.

The survey, by the research organisation Medix UK, also found that 45% of the 1000 doctors questioned believe their colleagues are helping terminally ill patients to die. But as the law currently stands, their actions put them at risk of life imprisonment every time.

Over a quarter of the doctors surveyed (27%) said they had been asked by a patient for help to die.

Altogether, 56% of doctors said they were in favour of legislation to allow assisted suicide for terminally ill patients, provided there were stringent safeguards and national guidelines

http://www.bmj.com/content/329/7472/939.3

[shetlandpeat]

Extract from Compassion in Dying website..

 

End-of-life rights in Scotland

 

Your rights in Scotland

The Mental Capacity Act is only applicable in England and Wales, which means that end-of-life rights are different in Scotland that they are in other parts of the UK.  If you have questions about rights at the end of life in Scotland call us on 0800 999 2434.

 

Advance directives

An Advance Directive is a document that contains your wishes for future treatment. You can use it to tell doctors what you would want if you lost the ability to make or communicate decisions - for example, if you had severe dementia or were in a coma.

Advance Directive is a Scottish term, but these documents are also called Advance Decisions  in other parts of the UK.  "Living will" is also sometimes used informally to mean advance directive or advance decision.

 

Are Advance Directives legally binding?

Advance Directives are binding under common law in Scotland but they don’t have statutory force.

Judges in the past have ruled that an Advance Directive should be followed, however there is no law that makes them legally binding.  This means that doctors should follow your Advance Directive if they can.

If you want to make sure that your wishes are legally binding, you might want to consider making a Welfare Power of Attorney.

See our factsheet for information about how to make an advance directive.  You can use Compassion in Dying's template Advance Decision, although this is not legally binding in Scotland.

 

Welfare Powers of Attorney

A Welfare Power of Attorney is a legally binding document under the Adults with Incapacity (Scotland) Act 2000 that gives someone the power to make health and welfare decisions for you in case you can’t do so yourself - for example, if you had severe dementia or were in a coma.  The person you appoint is called your Attorney.

You can choose to give your Welfare Power of Attorney extra powers so that they can make decisions about life-sustaining treatments.

Welfare Powers of Attorney can only be made through the Office of the Public Guardian (Scotland).  There is a charge of £70 to set it up, although you may be eligible for reduced costs if you are on a limited income.

See our factsheet for more information about how to set up a Welfare Power of Attorney.

 

http://www.compassionindying.org.uk/scotland

 

The site is full of interesting and informative information, it is worth a look.

 

Thank you

[as]

Just to point out that it takes a fair while for all necessary paperwork to go through to have the PoA legally registered, in our case it took 7 months. We are glad it is finally done and we have that peace of mind and are prepared.

[mellow]

took my poorly and much loved dog to vets last week , she couldn't be helped therefore a quick and painless death was given. sad but necessary

 

6 weeks ago Mum was in hospital , she couldn't be helped , i spent days requesting adequate pain relief ,

before she was allowed a peaceful death sad and unnecessary  

[shetlandpeat]

Something to think about...

 

If you follow the link within the text, there is much more about Brittany and the campaign in the United States.

 

Thanks

 

Brittany Maynard.

She is 29 years old.
And she has only 25 days left to live.
On November 1st, Brittany plans to die.

She says:
“I will die upstairs in my bedroom.
I will pass peacefully with some music that I like in the background. “

Brittany is suffering from stage 4 Brain Cancer.
She was married late last year.
Shortly after that she started having headaches.

In January, doctors told her she had stage 2 Brain Cancer.
They gave her 3-10 years to live.

But then in April, the news got even worse.
Her cancer was now stage 4.
(The worst it can get)
Doctors told her she now only had 6 months to live.

“I wish there was a cure for my disease, but there's not."

Brittany was living in the Bay Area.
But after learning she was going to die soon, she and her family moved to Portland, Oregon.

The reason: Oregon has a “Death with Dignity" law.
That means Brittany can choose when to end her life, instead of suffering.

Brittany says:
“I can’t even tell you the relief that provides me.
There is not a cell in my body that is suicidal or that wants to die.
(But) my Glioblastoma is going to kill me and it's a terrible, terrible way to die.
Being able to choose to go with dignity is less terrifying."

So Brittany has picked November 1st to die:

"I really wanted to celebrate my husband's birthday, which is October 30.
I'm getting sicker, dealing with more pain and seizures and difficulties so I just selected it."

She will use medication prescribed by her doctor.

“I plan to be surrounded by my immediate family, my mother, my step-father, my husband, and my best friend.”

During her last days, Brittany has been traveling.
She loves the outdoors.
She’s gone to Yellowstone Park and Alaska.
She hopes to make it to the Grand Canyon, but time is running out.

Brittany has made a video about her life and impending death.
It's six minutes long.
I watched it twice.
I broke down both times.
It’s heartbreaking.
But at the same time there is something so inspiring about her.
She’s very matter of fact and very direct.
Here’s a link if you’d like to see it.
http://www.thebrittanyfund.org/

At the end of the video, Brittany has a message for everyone:

“Make sure you’re not missing out.
Seize the day.
What do you care about?
What matters?
Pursue that.
Forget the rest.”

I’m going to write that down and put it on my desk at work.
I want to see her words every day.