Blueprint for Education Update - Closures Again - Aith

[Shoogler]

^^

Transport and hosteling costs are towards the back of the second doc - appendix 1

For Aith = extra transport £114,000 and hosteling costs are £2,740

Even with these costs there is a proposed saving of £715,000

 

You need to read the whole thing in some detail to get a chance of understanding the costs - not easy i know.

[tivacudda]

Looking through the report it seems that many of the proposed closures creates a travel time which exceeds the limit that the education dept have set themselves, and as a getout they are saying, 'Alternative transport options will be included in the proposal paper as part of the statutory consulation process', at what cost? I hope the councilors who asked for the additional information are happy with the outcome of the two week hiatus.

 

These closures have little or nothing to do with educational benefit, Ms Wishart has publicly stated that this is a financial cost cutting exercise.

 

The Junior High model works well in Shetland and was in place long before the council got its hands on the oil money (Mid Yell JHS opened 1967 Baltasound 1968) This type of education was afordable then! (I'm not party to the number of staff at education towers at that time)

[paulb]

roughly 120k for transport. plus another 25k for extra gritting if they cut gritting. another 120 odd k for keeping the empty building running. the 8/9 children from sandness will be borders this would be covered by central government funds. a further 8/9 children from westerskeld/skeld will have there own transport. i bet this is not in there estimates.

 

strange they have bunged the savings up from 690k to 750k. still seems strange that the kids cost 10k to educate that an hundred children will produce that saving.

 

at the moment

Aith costs just over a million or 10k per child no additional cost

once transferred to the anderson they will cost 8k + £1.200 plus £1.200 plus0.25 per child so to move them to the anderson it will cost roughly 10,650 per child.

were is the saving.

 

what also is missing is that children from the west side will not find it as easy to take part in the extras that the schools offer. an example one of my daughters art teachers during her highers wanted her to stay behind she tried to explain to the teacher that there was no transport so the teacher gave up on her. what schools forget is that there is no transport after 5pm.

 

they have been planning this move for years hence the size of the NEW ANDERSON. so why spend on a new junior high in yell. were is there thinking at.

[Shoogler]

Looking through the report it seems that many of the proposed closures creates a travel time which exceeds the limit that the education dept have set themselves, and as a getout they are saying, 'Alternative transport options will be included in the proposal paper as part of the statutory consulation process', at what cost? I hope the councilors who asked for the additional information are happy with the outcome of the two week hiatus.

 

These closures have little or nothing to do with educational benefit, Ms Wishart has publicly stated that this is a financial cost cutting exercise.

 

The Junior High model works well in Shetland and was in place long before the council got its hands on the oil money (Mid Yell JHS opened 1967 Baltasound 1968) This type of education was afordable then! (I'm not party to the number of staff at education towers at that time)

 

As i said above, they could lay on taxi's for bairns over 1 hour away and still make a saving.

They could also do away with the entire 'Directorate' cost in the service and this would still leave the SIC short of the target by about 2.5 million.

 

There is no proposal to do away with Mid Yell - only to transfer Baltasound JHS. This one appears to me the most difficult to see 'alternative' transport arrangements, unless we are speaking about SIC opening up Unst airport and using helicopters!!

[crofter]

Desperately looking for additional transport and hosteling costs if Aith is closed.

 

Should pupils from Aith Junior High School secondary department transfer to the

Anderson High School in August 2014, there would be a requirement for an

additional five places at the hall of residence for pupils who live in the Sandness

Primary School catchment area. These are pupils who are currently in Primary 7

and Secondary 1 and Secondary 2

 

This proposal would require two additional school bus services, one from Walls and

one from Bixter. The additional costs for this service would be approximately

£57,000 for each bus resulting in total approximate additional costs of £114,000 per

school year.

 

Pupils will also be able to travel on existing feeder routes and an existing service

bus. There are no additional costs incurred for these elements as currently all of

these services have capacity.

Based on the existing models and routes of transport the longest resulting single

journey for any secondary pupil affected by this proposal would be 80 minutes; this

would be for the first pick up point in Skeld. There are eight pupils currently in

Wester Skeld. Currently, therefore for these eight pupils the travel time would be

over 65 minutes, if this proposal is agreed then alternative transport options will be

included in the proposal paper as part of the statutory consultation process.

 

 

Proposed closure of Aith Junior High School secondary department

Feeder 3 Wester Skeld, Skeld and Reawick to Bixter – additional costs if school

bus route to be treated along their entire length would be 8.66km x £1,735 =

£15,026.

Feeder 4 Twatt and Clusta to Bixter – additional costs if school bus route to be

treated along their entire length would be 7.39km x £1,735 = £12,825

 

I don't know how accurate any of these estimates are, but at Uyeasound, the "actual" transport costs turned out to be more than double the schools service estimates.

[Shoogler]

roughly 120k for transport. plus another 25k for extra gritting if they cut gritting. another 120 odd k for keeping the empty building running. the 8/9 children from sandness will be borders this would be covered by central government funds. a further 8/9 children from westerskeld/skeld will have there own transport. i bet this is not in there estimates.

 

strange they have bunged the savings up from 690k to 750k. still seems strange that the kids cost 10k to educate that an hundred children will produce that saving.

 

at the moment

Aith costs just over a million or 10k per child no additional cost

once transferred to the anderson they will cost 8k + £1.200 plus £1.200 plus0.25 per child so to move them to the anderson it will cost roughly 10,650 per child.

were is the saving.

 

what also is missing is that children from the west side will not find it as easy to take part in the extras that the schools offer. an example one of my daughters art teachers during her highers wanted her to stay behind she tried to explain to the teacher that there was no transport so the teacher gave up on her. what schools forget is that there is no transport after 5pm.

 

they have been planning this move for years hence the size of the NEW ANDERSON. so why spend on a new junior high in yell. were is there thinking at.

 

Read the whole document and appendices - carefully - and not selectively Paul and stop cherrypicking numbers to suit your theory.

The cost per pupil for AHS is £6,600 and this would reduce if more bairns are there in (some) larger classes.

You are correct they haven't factored in the ultimate transport cost for every scenario but my understanding is they have gone to the existing transport operators and got a fair estimate

Cost of transport as a proportion of overall Childrens Services budgets is only 6% so it can easily go up to 7 or 8% and still the savings are worth it

[The Cheesemaker]

The financial report looks good at first impression.. but on closer examination you begin to find inconsistencies.

 

E.g. - at the Public Meeting in Aith - Vaila said that Aith cost £1.08m - yet it seems now to be recorded at nearly £1.7m...

 

Transport costs are something that also need to be looked at closely - i've heard it said that the cost basis used for these estimates is reliant on costings used in the tenders let nearly 5 years ago.. when fuel was much cheaper. The true indication of cost won't be known until new bus contracts are let after october

 

Also - do new vehicles have to be purchased - as they were for Scalloway -where does this cost come in?

 

Away from the finance.. is it not strange that in the Ctee report, when it does all the risk areas/comments from other departments and under Legal - it does not highlight that the current Scottish law, as reminded by Mike Russell very recently, says you cannot close schools for financial costs alone... yet that is what they are seeking to do. There is a real risk that if this is pushed through, the Scottish Govt will throw it back.. so surely this should be highlighted to Councillors

 

Also in this section, it does not highlight any equality/human rights issues - yet surely it is not equal that country bairns have to travel 75mins to school whereas their toonie cousins can walk 5 minutes round the corner?

[Shoogler]

The financial report looks good at first impression.. but on closer examination you begin to find inconsistencies.

 

E.g. - at the Public Meeting in Aith - Vaila said that Aith cost £1.08m - yet it seems now to be recorded at nearly £1.7m...

 

 

 

Transport costs are something that also need to be looked at closely - i've heard it said that the cost basis used for these estimates is reliant on costings used in the tenders let nearly 5 years ago.. when fuel was much cheaper. The true indication of cost won't be known until new bus contracts are let after october

 

Also - do new vehicles have to be purchased - as they were for Scalloway -where does this cost come in?

Away from the finance.. is it not strange that in the Ctee report, when it does all the risk areas/comments from other departments and under Legal - it does not highlight that the current Scottish law, as reminded by Mike Russell very recently, says you cannot close schools for financial costs alone... yet that is what they are seeking to do. There is a real risk that if this is pushed through, the Scottish Govt will throw it back.. so surely this should be highlighted to Councillors

 

Also in this section, it does not highlight any equality/human rights issues - yet surely it is not equal that country bairns have to travel 75mins to school whereas their toonie cousins can walk 5 minutes round the corner?

If you look at the figures you will see that she was quoting the total cost of Secondary and Primary. The saving to be made is from discontinuing the secondary school and hence the new cost is £920K

 

Re transport

- obviously transport costs are indicative only and that will need to be firmed up on during the consultation process

- depends, could be if a new contractor but that sort of thing is capitalised over many years like in any other business

 

Re Mike Russell

- and it is refreshing that Councillors are being honest about the drivers for change, and that doesn't mean a lessening of the standard of education

 

Re 'equality/Human rights

Holy C i've heard it all now! Human Rights issues are you having a laugh? If you live that far away then the option is boarding at the hostel. The other option is a more direct travel route for any child over 65 minutes away, i.e. not part of a multiple pick up/feeder route

[hairyian]

...

 

Also in this section, it does not highlight any equality/human rights issues - yet surely it is not equal that country bairns have to travel 75mins to school whereas their toonie cousins can walk 5 minutes round the corner?

 

You think the Legislation covers this ?

[NewMagnie]

Re 'equality/Human rights

Holy C i've heard it all now! Human Rights issues are you having a laugh? If you live that far away then the option is boarding at the hostel. The other option is a more direct travel route for any child over 65 minutes away, i.e. not part of a multiple pick up/feeder route

 

Just out of interest, would a route involving a ferry crossing be classified as multiple pick up route?

 

In the case of the Baltasound pupils going to Mid Yell (Or the Mid Yell pupils going to Baltasound (why not?)) multiple buses and ferries would be involved, hardly a short hop.

 

As for boarding bairns at the hostel - presumably from 12 years old - I rather thought we'd left that nonsense back in the 1960's.

[crofter]

 

Re Mike Russell

- and it is refreshing that Councillors are being honest about the drivers for change, and that doesn't mean a lessening of the standard of education

 

 

 

Mike Russell has stated on Radio Shetland that schools cannot be closed to save money. According to Mike Russell, that would be illegal. Take Burravoe as an example. SIC proposed closure. Mike Russell called it in, said there was no educational benefit to be gained by closing it, i.e. the bairns would get a poorer education at Mid Yell. Burravoe is still open. But the "refresh" proposals include closing Burravoe... Wut? What has suddenly happened since 2011 which means there might now be an educational benefit?

[crofter]

 

Transport costs are something that also need to be looked at closely - i've heard it said that the cost basis used for these estimates is reliant on costings used in the tenders let nearly 5 years ago.. when fuel was much cheaper. The true indication of cost won't be known until new bus contracts are let after october

 

Interesting piece from this report on transport :

 

http://www.shetland.gov.uk/about_performance/documents/TransportSPPCOMMITTEE.pdf

 

2.7 Summary of Known Risks:

· Rising cost of fuel.

· Rising costs associated with transport becoming a professional area of work, for

example, Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC) qualifications for bus drivers,

which is likely to increase costs when reâ€tendering, as well as rising cost of fuel.

· Unable to plan for change without overall strategic direction and priorities in place,

for Shetland.

[crofter]

Re 'equality/Human rights

Holy C i've heard it all now! Human Rights issues are you having a laugh? If you live that far away then the option is boarding at the hostel. The other option is a more direct travel route for any child over 65 minutes away, i.e. not part of a multiple pick up/feeder route

 

This idea of "Equality" goes back a few years to the best value service reviews:

 

3.2 The objectives of the review supports the Corporate Plan 2004 - 2008 in

a number of important ways:

3.2.1 Strengthening Rural Communities

It is key to the overall economic health of Shetland to develop the

economy of rural areas, so that rural communities remain and/or

become places where people can live and work with good career

prospects.

3.2.2 Equal Opportunities

Shetland will benefit from everyone having the same chances to

make their fullest contribution in every field.

3.2.3 Social Justice

As a caring community we want to know that public resources are

fairly allocated and help to reduce inequalities and injustice.

3.2.4 Achieving Potential

Shetland has much to gain economically, socially and culturally

from all individuals being able to make the most of themselves

and their talents. We recognise that for the future of Shetland this

is particularly important for our young people.

[crofter]

Just out of interest, would a route involving a ferry crossing be classified as multiple pick up route?

 

Only if it involved two ferry crossings. For example if pick ups began at Hamars Ness, Unst...

 

4.7.11 Proposed Closure of Baltasound Junior High School Secondary Department

This proposal would require one additional school bus service, one beginning pickups

from Hamars Ness, Unst and transporting pupils to Belmont to meet the 0750

hours ferry. A bus would collect pupils from Gutcher, Yell and transport them to Mid

Yell Junior High School. Pupils would return to Gutcher at the end of the school day

to take the 1610/1615 ferry to Belmont.

The total additional cost for this proposal would be approximately £15,200 per

school year.

Based on the existing models and routes of transport the resulting longest single

journey for any pupil affected by this proposal would be 75 minutes. Currently,

therefore for these pupils the travel time would be over 65 minutes, if this proposal

is agreed then alternative transport options will be included in the proposal paper as

part of the statutory consultation process.

 

From the report on transport I linked to above:

 

· Consequences of many years of little planned maintenance and refurbishment are

now manifesting themselves in the form of deteriorating plant and infrastructure.

· Ferry terminals being used beyond their intended lifespan, so there are issues

regarding reliability and may result in them being unserviceable or unusable. This is

to be addressed as part of the Fixed Link Strategy.

 

Maybe better to wait until the tunnel is bored between Unst and Yell before trying to send bairns across Bluemull Sound every day in the winter.

[paulb]

Good points crofter. Just add this one as well. What happens to the children if the ferries are cancelled whilst they are at school. Each parents group from the junior highs need to get together and stand up to the council. If each School tries to fight them off by themselves they will pick them off one by one. we have heard from aith and baltasound. the others need to start getting vocalor they will suffer.