Blueprint for Education Update - Closures Again - Aith

[amno]

It's not the SIC'S job to create a comunity spirit in rural shetland, nor is it their job to hold the hands of all 22 thousand residents from cradle to grave, there are some things you need to do on youre own, golf clubs, country halls, highspeed broadband you name it. not suitable for public subsidy IMO.

 

I do not support one political party or another. I don't support utterly ruthless cuts but by the same token i believe endless subsidy is just a long walk to bankruptcy. and i'm sorry shelties but when it comes to grabbing the bull by the horns you're the worlds worst for not making tough decisions, not wanting to be unpopular, not wanting youre comunity to be the one without a school (yes i'm looking at you "half our bairns already get driven to mid yell by their mithers" buravoe!)

 

No one likes these things becuase there not nice but niether is running out of money completely or having a goverment appointed comisioner instead of local control.

 

One last note; an (old) man i once worked with from mossbank said he was so glad his parents had sent him to the anderson instead of brea as he grew up knowing many times more people and was tought by many more teachers than he ever would have at brae. possibly not 100% relevent to the schools facing the chop but is it not surely better having at least some veriety growing up rather than being in the same class as all the way through from 1 -7.

[shetlander]

My 'alternative' is leave the rural areas alone. We're sick and fed up of being continually targeted. Go ahead and build a 'super' primary school in Lerwick, one school instead of two for Lerwick.

 

With the council already in a quandry as to how to pay for a new AHS, I'd very much doubt that they could find either the money or a site to have a new 'super' primary in Lerwick up and running within the timescales that these savings need to be made - if indeed that would achieve them. I suspect if you ask parents in Lerwick, they will tell you that they are sick of having their schools' budgets squeezed even more to help pay for the sheer number of under capacity schools elsewhere - particularly when their bairns don't have the kind of niceties that pupils in some rural schools do.

 

(yes i'm looking at you "half our bairns already get driven to mid yell by their mithers" buravoe!)

 

Indeed - along the road that we all heard not so long ago was an accident waiting to happen (but only for primary school bairns apparently. I don't recall any concern ever having been raised about secondary pupils using it to get to Mid Yell as they do every day)

[crofter]

- particularly when their bairns don't have the kind of niceties that pupils in some rural schools do.

 

niceties?

[humptygrumpty]

Am totally fed up with the continual school closure threats to country schools , why arent the lerwick schools under threat ?

Why cant lerwick bairns be bused outwith lerwick , I mean its all very well for bairns as far away as sandness to be bused into lerwick ?

Whats so special about lerwicks survival ? the ahs is totally unfit for purpose , the sic are years away from a new schhol , and given their history of screw ups , probably never !

Kids around lerwick that have to walk to school do so on pavements with street lighting , Whats going to happen to children in the country that stay maybe a mile or two from main bus routes , that have prevoisly been picked up by bus to be taken to their local school ? No local school-no bus ?

So these children have to either walk along dark single track roads in the winter time there and back , unless their parents can either get time of work or organise some other means of transport , which could be considerably difficult ? And for what ? So that some high paid office staff in lerwick can sustain their vastly overpaid jobs and maintain their leather chair with the shape of their arses !

Shetland islands council is FAR to top heavy with admin staff , look at Orkney by comparison , Its high time we as a community said "No more" , Leave our elderly and children be and untill WE see THEM cutting back on this vast payrol in the SIC , lead by example.

14 million wasted in lerwick on a white elphant that WILL be a constant drain on resources........ millions upon millions wasted on a bridge / tunnel that will never be , hundreds of thousands wasted on consultants about fixed links to outer isles , I could go on and on.....well done sic , you must be so proud !!!

[NewMagnie]

It's not the SIC'S job to create a comunity spirit in rural shetland, nor is it their job to hold the hands of all 22 thousand residents from cradle to grave, there are some things you need to do on youre own, golf clubs, country halls, highspeed broadband you name it. not suitable for public subsidy IMO.

 

Well no, it's not. But it is Council's job to run the services they do deliver responsibly and effectively. Paying for education isn't subsidy - it's operating cost.

 

This gets blurred however, when the two issues of costs of the education service and the best model for education (more or fewer schools, staffing, curriculum) become hopelessly muddled as they generally do in this debate.

 

I do not support one political party or another. I don't support utterly ruthless cuts but by the same token i believe endless subsidy is just a long walk to bankruptcy. and i'm sorry shelties but when it comes to grabbing the bull by the horns you're the worlds worst for not making tough decisions, not wanting to be unpopular, not wanting youre comunity to be the one without a school (yes i'm looking at you "half our bairns already get driven to mid yell by their mithers" buravoe!)

 

There's a reasonable point in there somewhere, and I'll let you off with 'Shelties'.

 

Parochialism is an issue, but it should be remembered that these concerns are as much driven by experience of living with a centralising authority as it is a concern at having a school in the area for the sake of it.

 

No one likes these things becuase there not nice but niether is running out of money completely or having a goverment appointed comisioner instead of local control.

 

Local control? Frankly for some of the rural areas, the choice between an appointed commissioner and an unconcerned council is not at meaningful as you'd think.

[daveh]

So these children have to either walk along dark single track roads in the winter time there and back , unless their parents can either get time of work or organise some other means of transport , which could be considerably difficult ? And for what ? So that some high paid office staff in lerwick can sustain their vastly overpaid jobs and maintain their leather chair with the shape of their arses !

Shetland islands council is FAR to top heavy with admin staff , look at Orkney by comparison , Its high time we as a community said "No more" , Leave our elderly and children be and untill WE see THEM cutting back on this vast payrol in the SIC , lead by example.

 

Precisely the point that I am making. There are literally millions that could be saved in administrative costs, for both councils, by combining "back-office" functions with Orkney. It has been ludicrous to spend money on new Lerwick offices to house the vast army of pen-pushers whilst cutting services and decimating communities.

Once the communities move out, to make schooling choices easier, they won't come back. Places like Unst, Yell and Fetlar will eventually be just old 'uns and crofters with no children.

[humptygrumpty]

It's not the SIC'S job to create a comunity spirit in rural shetland, nor is it their job to hold the hands of all 22 thousand residents from cradle to grave, there are some things you need to do on youre own, golf clubs, country halls, highspeed broadband you name it. not suitable for public subsidy IMO.

quote]

 

Granted. But neither is it the duty of the 22000 residents to maintain a completely over the top , top heavy admin drenched sic.

 

If all these jobs created here were the result of the previous governments , then why is it that Orkney , with a population of what ? say 20,000 can manage , and manage very well with HALF the workforce the sic have , I dare anyone to explain that one to me.........All thats bleated on about here is job losses etc , well is it the duty of the shetland parent to watch their child being bussed to a totally substandard school miles away to protect an overgrown monster and a large number of non jobs....which DO exist in the sic.

Close the ahs , scrap the semi derilict hulk , or if its so good them make it the new sic headquarters and bus the lerwick bairns to the increasinly empty country schools , thereby saving 50 plus million for the new school , that we all know with the incredible stupidity of the design requirements will be both 20 yrs away min and cost more like 150 million by then.

 

Scrap the island allowance , all sic employees basicly get their council tax free , get rid of the majority of council yellow vans outside the workers house's , saving on vehicles and fuel , we all have to buy a car to get to work in , and fuel it , run it etc , why the hell cant they ???? Mad as f*ck icon not available.

[paulb]

if you saw the head of the committee grinning yesterday then you would know the fate of aith and all the other schools she wants to shut. they claim that the average school place in shetland costs 13k with aith at 10 ans anderson at 8 k at those prices import a private school and get them to run the education it would be cheaper.

[MJ]

Just realised Paul, you maybe didn't get these links

1st for tomorrows meeting.

http://www.shetland.gov.uk/news-advice/ArrangementsforpublicattendanceatEducationFamiliesCommitteemeeting280812.asp

Arrangements for public attendance at Education & Families Committee meeting

 

Due to a wedding taking place in the Town Hall tomorrow, public access to the Council Chambers for the Education & Families Committee meeting at 10 a.m. will be limited due to fire regulations. However, space has been made available at the Registrar’s office at the County Buildings, which will be served by a video link from the Town Hall. Any members of the public wishing to attend the meeting should call at the Town Hall in the first instance.

2nd Vaila's statement from Shetland News when seeking election

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/features/election-candidates-2012/vaila-wishart

Secondary education, on the other hand, needs larger schools with more sophisticated equipment. Brae and the Anderson High should be the main centres for secondary education with the phased closure of most junior secondaries.

3rd you may have already read from Shetland Times

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2012/08/28/backlash-in-aith-against-school-closure-proposal

Head of schools Helen Budge confirmed today that the £690,000 figure does not factor in the added cost of transporting pupils to Lerwick. She said more detailed sums would only be calculated if councillors approve the plans

If you remember during the last blueprint consultation it was stated that transport and hostelling costs were not taken into consideration as they were from a different budget.

Can I also bring to peoples attention that there currently is not enough school bus provision for existing pupils, as it's expected that pupils will drop out, get lifts with people working in town and older pupils drive themselves and friends. I would be tempted to try and arrange a protest and ask ALL AHS pupils entitled to school transport on the 14th of September to attempt to use it.

[daveh]

Granted. But neither is it the duty of the 22000 residents to maintain a completely over the top , top heavy admin drenched sic.

 

If all these jobs created here were the result of the previous governments , then why is it that Orkney , with a population of what ? say 20,000 can manage , and manage very well with HALF the workforce the sic have , I dare anyone to explain that one to me.........All thats bleated on about here is job losses etc , well is it the duty of the shetland parent to watch their child being bussed to a totally substandard school miles away to protect an overgrown monster and a large number of non jobs....which DO exist in the sic.

Close the ahs , scrap the semi derilict hulk , or if its so good them make it the new sic headquarters and bus the lerwick bairns to the increasinly empty country schools , thereby saving 50 plus million for the new school , that we all know with the incredible stupidity of the design requirements will be both 20 yrs away min and cost more like 150 million by then.

 

Scrap the island allowance , all sic employees basicly get their council tax free , get rid of the majority of council yellow vans outside the workers house's , saving on vehicles and fuel , we all have to buy a car to get to work in , and fuel it , run it etc , why the hell cant they ???? Mad as f*ck icon not available.

 

I like humptygrumpty ! If he had stood as a councillor in my area, he would have got my vote.

[unlinkedstudent]

Re: Admin costs and comparing SIC with Orkney and other LAs:

 

You don't necessarily have to share back office facilities with a neighbouring LA to save money. Loads of LAs throughout the UK now outsource to typing services and not necessarily to those based abroad. That said, many SIC staff do type their own correspondence but large reports could be outsourced thus saving on overtime costs and/or freeing up person hours for them to carry out their usual duties.

 

However, if SIC schools are anything like those in London, certain admin tasks can only really be done on the premises. Software is used to generate school reports and these are done by the individual teachers. The school admin assistant then compiles them, prints them off and puts them into envelopes.

 

What really gets my goat though is that the SIC take 28 days to respond to correspondence when every other LA I have dealt with takes 10 days, often with less staff per capita population, so to speak ... I tell a lie - you're lucky if they actually DO reply apart from "Somebody will respond to your request within two weeks" ... two weeks later - nothing!

[Staney Dale]

No way would you nowadays send a big report off to some typing pool. The explaining, checking, correcting and re-checking are far more time-consuming than doing it in situ. Officers will, I'm sure, do their own typing then get admin to format, check, correct, index, distribute etc.

 

This thing about crowds of admin is overblown and it's a knee- jerk reaction, as is the thing about Council vans. Admin staff aren't sitting about doing things for the sake of it. They are, like most Council staff, having to do more and more in fewer hours and suffering the cuts as much as anyone.

 

Some of the anti cuts arguments on here are turning into ill informed rants.

[daveh]

That said, many SIC staff do type their own correspondence but large reports could be outsourced thus saving on overtime costs and/or freeing up person hours for them to carry out their usual duties.

 

However, if SIC schools are anything like those in London, certain admin tasks can only really be done on the premises.

 

If the SIC staff are typing their own reports then, if that work was taken away from them, they would have that time spare as, presumably, other staff are currently performing those "usual duties".

 

Of course, certain admin tasks will need to be performed within the school. I am talking about a big dollop of staff who are based in Lerwick offices; in education and other head office functions.

 

I think this is definitely a case of turkeys not choosing to vote for Christmas. Nobody in "HQ", unless they are looking for a redundancy payout, is going to choose to lose their jobs over those out at the "coal face" of public services. Centralisation (or possibly sub-contracting out) of back-office functions is logically the way to go and to not go down this route would be a case of ignoring common sense. I have had communications back, from both Tavish Scott & Alistair Buchan, saying that my points are valid but it remains to be seen if the latter has the balls to do what is necessary.

[paulb]

so the officers on at least £30k a year a doing their own typing and admin. how is that a cost saving.

 

Helen budge admits not knowing the real cost savings. does not know the costings of the transport or the extra cost involved in boarding. remember there is no saving in reduced staff.

 

as at scalloway they are very limited in what they can do with half closed schools.

what impact does the closed secondary have on viability of the remaining primary they will suddenly become expensive and need cutting.

 

expect to see large primaries with in ten years.

 

we need to know why it costs more to teach a child in Shetland than anywhere else. has a proper costing been done.

[unlinkedstudent]

No way would you nowadays send a big report off to some typing pool. The explaining, checking, correcting and re-checking are far more time-consuming than doing it in situ. Officers will, I'm sure, do their own typing then get admin to format, check, correct, index, distribute etc.

 

This thing about crowds of admin is overblown and it's a knee- jerk reaction, as is the thing about Council vans. Admin staff aren't sitting about doing things for the sake of it. They are, like most Council staff, having to do more and more in fewer hours and suffering the cuts as much as anyone.

 

Some of the anti cuts arguments on here are turning into ill informed rants.

 

I'll ignore the rants comment.

 

Many large reports are sent to external typing agencies these days by those within the private and public sector. Many typing pools disappeared in the 1980s (when more secretaries' typewriters were replaced with dedicated word processors and then PCs) but over time it became apparent that secretaries couldn't cope with the additional workload. Moreover, not all secretaries received the necessary training to do the fancier formatting functions.

 

External typing agencies charge clients between £0.50 and £1.50 per audio minute but the typists on their books have to possess a typing speed in excess of 75wpm and be proficient in advanced word processing, both of which are tested. Most of them also have a Quality Control Division whereby work is checked and returned to the client within 24 hours. Clients' preferences (templates, fonts, automatic numbering, sequential headings, etc.) are stored and typed instructions relayed to the assigned typist(s).

 

So, do all those Council Officers preparing their own reports possess a typing speed of 75wpm (plus) and can they all touch type, and know the 'fancier' functions?

 

I think I recall reading somewhere about how staff had worked weekends on the last consultation and I can't help but wonder if it would have been completed sooner if an external typing service had been utilised and, no doubt, more cost effectively.