9/11 conspiracy theories

[Fanman]

^^

LOL…Yeh right enough KOY..

This was all devised and orchestrated by a man living in a cave.

[spencey7]

http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

 

Read. Wise up.

 

That is all.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

LOL…Yeh right enough KOY..

This was all devised and orchestrated by a man living in a cave.

 

A cave!

My god man, do you not listen when Donald speaks?

 

It was all planned to the finest detail in Osamas ant hill, where he and his band of bloody towel heads plot day and night for new ways to make you stand around at security checks FOREVER.

 

Times of London - November 29th, 2001...

 

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7426/netherpopup.gif

 

Oh, you bet. This is serious business. And there's not one of those. There are many of those. And they have been used very effectively. And I might add, Afghanistan is not the only country that has gone underground. Any number of countries have gone underground. The tunneling equipment that exists today is very powerful. It's dual use. It's available across the globe. And people have recognized the advantages of using underground protection for themselves.

[Fanman]

^^

 

Whit .... Nae canteen ??

[paulb]

and the toilets unless thats what the mans doing.

[Fanman]

I've never seen this before.....It explains everything.

 

' There have been reports that Bin Laden has been moving around the area on horseback'

 

LOL

 

The american tanks better watch out for that !!! A horse can give a hoor of a kick.

 

In all fairness he's likly just nippin out for a loaf.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

On June 8, 1967, US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty was suddenly and brutally attacked on the high seas in international waters by the air and naval forces of Israel. The Israeli forces attacked with full knowledge that this was an American ship and lied about it. Survivors have been forbidden for 40 years to tell their story under oath to the American public. The USS Liberty Memorial web site tells their story and is dedicated to the memory of the 34 brave men who died.

 

Consider the implications within...

 

Admiral Thomas H. Moorer, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and a critic of the official United States Government version of events, chaired a non-governmental investigation into the attack on the USS Liberty in 2003. The committee, which included former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia James E. Akins, held Israel to be culpable and suggested several theories for Israel's possible motives, including the desire to bring the US into the Six Day War against Egypt.

 

At least two rescue attempts were launched from U.S. aircraft carriers nearby but were recalled.

Upon receipt of SOS, aircraft were launched to come to assistance and then Washington was notified. The Secretary of Defense (Robert McNamara) had ordered that the aircraft be returned to the carrier which was done.

6th Fleet Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis speculated that Washington may have suspected that the aircraft carried nuclear weapons so he put together another flight of conventional aircraft that had no capability of carrying nuclear weapons. These he launched to assist and again notified Washington of his actions. Again McNamara ordered the aircraft recalled. He requested confirmation of the order being unable to believe that Washington would let them sink. This time President Johnson ordered the recall with the comment that he did not care if every man drowned and the ship sank, but that he would not embarrass his allies.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

 

Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested.

 

Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel.

 

The pilot's protests also were heard by radio monitors in the U.S. Embassy in Lebanon. Then-U.S. Ambassador to Lebanon Dwight Porter has confirmed this. Porter told his story to syndicated columnists Rowland Evans and Robert Novak and offered to submit to further questioning by authorities. Unfortunately, no one in the U.S. government has any interest in hearing these first-person accounts of Israeli treachery.

 

Israel attacked the USS Liberty using UNMARKED AIRCRAFT. This is the single fact which proves Israel knew exactly who they were attacking. Israel's story is that they thought USS Liberty was an Egyptian ship and therefore a legitimate target of war. Were that true, there would be no reason to attack a supposedly Egyptian ship with unmarked aircraft. The only possible reason to use unmarked aircraft to attack the ship is that Israel knew it was an American ship and intended to sink it, then to blame the attack on Egypt.

 

Moorer, who as top legal council to the official investigation is in a position to know, agrees that Israel intended to sink the USS Liberty and blame Egypt for it, thus dragging the United States into a war on Israel's behalf. This seems to be a common trick of Israel. Starting with the Lavon affair, through the USS Liberty, to the fake radio transmitter that tricked Reagan into attacking Libya, to potentially 9-11 itself, Israel's game is to frame Arabs and set them up as targets for the United States.

 

http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/ussliberty.html

 

On the Israeli side, the group of pro-Israel, anti-American critics of our story, while small, persists in launching loud, vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone who attempts to discuss the deliberateness of the attack. These anti-American apologists refuse to discuss the facts of the case. Instead, they rely on propaganda and charge anyone who questions the Israeli position with being antiSemitic.

 

http://www.gtr5.com/

 

And of course...

 

Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information." -- US official quoted in Carl Cameron's Fox News report on the Israeli spy ring and its connections to 9-11.

[bug]

Koy - that is indeed a strange definition of "brave"

[EM]

...that is indeed a strange definition of "brave"

I have just about given up trying to understand what terms like "brave" or "coward" mean nowadays. When you see typical usage they have clearly become perverted beyond belief.

 

Take for example the description by Bush of the alleged perpetrators of the 11/09/2001 attacks. He called them cowards. Now, my understanding of what is and what is not cowardly would consider the sending of unmanned drones to blow up wedding parties in distant countries to be a tad cowardly, whereas suicide bombing (though certainly heinous) is less of a cowardly act.

 

What is brave nowadays?

[DamnSaxon]

I have just about given up trying to understand what terms like "brave" or "coward" mean nowadays. When you see typical usage they have clearly become perverted beyond belief. ... What is brave nowadays?

 

Agree. When words like that turn up in a politician's speech, they mean nothing at all. Thinking about it, that applies to pretty much all words from politicians, bar very few.

 

I suspect most people in most countries (including me) would describe the ordinary "grunt" soldier as pretty brave, though, mostly because they're the ones who actually lay their lives on the line - but they still do it, even as they joke about the complete incompetence of the entire chain of command above them. We still have a sort of Platonic ideal of bravery in our minds.

 

The fact that most of the lines they lay their lives on aren't worth a thing is down to the depravity of politicians, of course, but that's another issue.

[Gibber]

Does it not strike anyone else as a tad unusual that an ethnic group comprising maybe a couple of percent of the populations involved somehow contrived to....

 

The proportion of Jews with IQ’s of 140 or more is estimated to be about six times the proportion of any other ethnic group.

 

Although Jews constitute only about two-tenths of one percent of the world’s population, Jews won 29 percent of the Nobel Prizes in literature, medicine, physics and chemistry in the second half of the 20th century. So far this century, the figure is 32 percent. And these Jews of whom we speak were almost exclusively male Jews primarily of western European ancestry (less than one-tenth of one percent of the world’s population), in spite of pervasive discrimination, numerous legal barriers, frequent persecution, and the Holocaust.

 

From 1870 until 1950, Jewish leadership in such fields as literature, music, visual arts, biology, chemistry, physics, mathematics, and philosophy equaled somewhere from four to fourteen times the Jewish proportion of the population in Europe and North America.

 

And, of course, the extraordinarily high proportion of Jews in such fields as medicine, law, finance, literature, science, creative arts and the media is as obvious as it is astonishing. To some, these facts are awkward and even embarrassing, feeding stereotypes of “crafty†and “clever†Jews good at making money and flaunting their superiority to non-Jews. Indeed, the subject – the fact, if you will now allow -- of Jewish intellectual superiority is rarely if ever discussed in Jewish publications

 

You have come to the conclusion that there is a contrived dubious underhand "control the world" conspiracy behind the achievements of Jewish people.

 

Isn't that just another small bit of evidence upholding the conclusion some might reach from the above quote?

[Gibber]

I would be every bit as interested were it to appear that some area of influence was disproportionately populated by Zulus, or Buddhists, or Finns, or any other identified group. But they're not.

 

May 2000 Scientific American Magazine book review of Taboo : Why Black Athletes Dominate Sports and Why We're Afraid to Talk About It

 

For example, he notes that although Asians constitute 57 percent of the world's population, they make up a small fraction of professional runners, soccer players or basketball players. In contrast, whereas persons of sub-Saharan African ancestry comprise 12 percent of the world's six billion people, they disproportionately represent the top athletes in those sports requiring running, jumping and endurance. During the 1960s, the National Basketball Association's racial breakdown stood at roughly 80 percent white and 20 percent black; today that proportion has nearly reversed. In fact, a black male has a one-in-4,000 chance of playing in the NBA, compared with a white male's one-in-90,000 chance. Meanwhile, among professional women's basketball players, 70 percent are African-American. In the National Football League, 65 percent of players are black. In college sports, 60 percent of male basketball players and nearly half of all football players are African-American. In track and field, nearly every men's world record belongs to an athlete of African descent-including the top 15 world running records (ranging from 100 meters to the marathon).

 

You don’t give Jewish achievements any roots in nature, nurture or any societal or environmental pressure. For you the very existence of disproportionate Jewish achievements are an underhand (and of course as per the standard conspiracy guff undefined and vague so as to admit anything done by any Jew ever as evidence at your discretion) world control conspiracy.

 

We can only assume then, that you think black people are disproportionately successful in the sports listed above because of a black sporting conspiracy.

 

Like your Jewish census system the above stats appear to be anecdotal and like you I haven't checked them out to any great degree, so to paraphrase yourself, just to be sure, I think you should count ‘em and check for blackness.

[DamnSaxon]

A week or so off to deal with RL and now I'm being slagged off as some sort of irresponsible "conspiracy theorist" again here. Gib, you may believe that I have come to a conclusion you don't like, but from where I'm sitting I don't believe myself to have come to any such conclusion; both as a scientist (by decades of practice and spare time activities) and as a philosopher (by inclination and training) I regard most information which comes into my awareness as tentative until demonstrated true, and I just comment on what I perceive. See below re. conspiracy proper - this is another of my longer posts, I'm afraid.

 

Incidentally, I fall into that over-140 IQ bracket myself - for what that's worth, as IQ testing is legendarily culture-specific - yet somehow I have never felt that I ought to be running everything or grabbing an excess of personal wealth. Advising people I am working with to adopt a course of action which seems best to me, okay, but that's just me trying to use my vaunted intelligence to help those poor sub-140s up to my own exalted level of understanding, not forcing my preferences and prejudices onto others in my own selfish interest. Actually, most intelligent people I have met - including the Jewish ones - tend to take a pretty similar approach to life.

 

But since we're in the 9/11 conspiracy thread, perhaps the most relevant thing here is to consider what makes for a good conspiracy theory, and perhaps too I might suggest why I might find some of them not entirely incredible. I find that they fall broadly into two categories.

 

1) The first group comprises all sorts of wacky nonsense. Elvis is alive and working in a fast food outlet in Tuscagee. Man didn't land on the moon, it was all a Stanley Kubrick screenplay. There are aliens living inside the Earth, coming and going through that well-known portal at the North Pole (Area 51's the back door, presumably). Even worse, OMG, there are aliens living among us!! - These are an endless source of entertainment, but really, if you pause to think about it for a millisecond, the disconnection from reality is pretty obvious and the contribution to human understanding nil. The only known use of these "theories" is as patent nonsense with which to smear the word "conspiracy".

 

2) The second group might be loosely termed the "political conspiracy theories". Think about a few of them for a moment. Republicans spying on Democrats at the Watergate Hotel? Damnable conspiracy theory! Er, no, it turned out to be fact. BCCI, where "conspiracy theorists" were spreading evil lies about international bankers plotting behind the scenes to grab whatever they could ... er, oh. they were, and crashed the bank doing it. The CIA running drugs into the US? Er, true, at least twice, in LA and Arkansas, off the top of my head, and who knows how many other places? The "Iran-Contra" controversy (a bit of Israeli involvement there, I seem to recall) ... true. That girl Nayirah who "saw Iraqi soldiers pulling babies out of incubators" in Kuwait, who the evil conspiracy theorists didn't believe from the outset? Funny how she turned out to be the daughter of the Kuwaiti ambassador to the USA, and hadn't seen any such thing - but of course, as usual, the lie had served its purpose and the troops had gone in by the time the facts came out.

 

You notice a certain grim similarity after a while ... the conspiracy theories involving the baser instincts of the power-hungry do seem to have a habit of showing up as true when the facts are eventually levered into the light. There are lots of others.

 

As for my "conclusion" that "there is a contrived dubious underhand "control the world" conspiracy behind the achievements of Jewish people", presumably this would involve knowing about:

(a) The "New World Order", or "World Government" plan. How many more politicians need to use those phrases before people wake up? It wasn't just Bush, it was Churchill, Kissinger, Thatcher, Blair, Sarkozy, Obama, Ban ki Moon ... I think with a modicum of checking you'll find that there is a group of the ultra-corrupt ultra-powerful who wish to make - and are steadily working towards making - their power (and, therefore, their corruption, not that they seem to worry about that) absolute. That many of these are Jewish is entirely uncontroversial.

( The Bilderberg group ... which exists, and meets regularly to decide on the next chapter of history, as secretly as they can, with the connivance of the mass media, q.v. ...

© The Trilateral Commission ... which exists to hook Japan into the system ...

(d) The Council on Foreign Relations, and all the other ghastly spawn of Rhodes' Round Table ... exist ... to do pretty much what you'd expect ...

(e) The "Illuminati" ... all historically documented stuff ...

(f and onward) The UN, EU, NATO, World Bank, International Monetary Fund ... in fact, practically anything with "World" or "International" in its name - and it's funny how the same few names keep on popping up between these various organisations, over and over. You only have to listen to what their mouthpieces say to hear the wheels grinding towards "international" government (a.k.a. a small, unrepresentative and unelected self-styled élite "controlling the world") with no reference whatever to the preferences of the ordinary people who also happen to inhabit this planet, actually. As with those other "evil political conspiracies", we seem to be encountering a lot of truths here.

 

And I have never claimed that the conspiracy - dubious and underhand as it certainly is - lies behind the achievements of (most) Jewish people; I have said elsewhere both that the great majority of Jewish people are nothing to do with the "élite" and that the "élite" includes numerous non-Jews. Presumably Jewish over-representation here, as elsewhere in positions of power, wealth and influence, is down to this amazing IQ advantage.

 

In which case, it's a pity they prefer to use this great intelligence for the base purpose of grabbing personal power, rather than for trying to enlighten the rest of the human race and improving the lot of us all. My own IQ of 140+ only means, to me, that I happen to have the use of a brain which enjoys playing the sort of sequence and set theory games which dominate IQ tests, and perhaps enjoys an above-average ability to spot patterns and regularities in the world as a result - in fact, a brain which works pretty well for the scientific and philosophical pursuits which have kept it ticking over nicely for a fair few decades now and, I hope, has been generally helpful in some modest measure. I'm afraid that analysing what I observe is automatic, and when I see other, presumably intelligent, people carrying on as the "élite" do, I'm going to make disparaging comments about it. If others choose to misinterpret this as an attack on the main ethnic group involved, well, maybe I could have phrased this or that a little better, but so be it. It's not. It's my contempt for those who abuse their intelligence to selfish ends - that's why I generally put quotes round "élite" - a real élite comprises the best, not just the cunningest, greediest and most self-serving.

 

I am not a conspiracy theorist. I am a conspiracy watcher. Remember, most of the political theories which accuse those in power of disgraceful activities show up as true. Admittedly, that doesn't mean every bit of every theory is accurate - that only comes out later - but it gives you a pretty good feeling for which way the wind of human greed blows and which new data support or demolish existing likely thoeries. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then for the time being at least I'll assume it's a duck and act accordingly.

 

As for 9/11 itself (don't *think* I've posted in this thread before) - far, far too many holes and loose ends in the "official story" for it to be true, IMO. I keep watching, and noting. As for the string of "shoe bombers" and "underpants bombers" and suchlike strangely incompetent specimens who seem to pop up so regularly just when it's politically convenient for them to do so ... ah, yes, "crisis - response - resolution", classic Hegel and so very obvious once you've seen a few, but a perennial favourite nonetheless:

Manufactured crisis: Obviously brainwashed idiot (check for that weird, spaced-out look) sets fire to underwear (or shoe, or, well, God only knows what next after the underpants show) on plane in alleged "bomb threat".

Response: Public encouraged to feel fear: "OMG we're in great danger from these people, our leaders must protect us." (More accurately, the politicians just tell the public that this is a great danger, but not to worry because "we" will protect them, "if" they'll just accept another little bite out of their freedom. The media will assure them of how "necessary" this is, never fear.)

Resolution: Clamp down another notch on ordinary members of the public, who would never in a million years think of setting fire to their clothing or underwear. Now, citizen, to help us fight terrorism you will have to go through this body scanner, which just happens to be made by a company run by one of George Bush's mates now he's got a little more time on his hands. Should make a few more mill for the Chertoff kitty, that, and just hope nobody notices that Amsterdam airport, where Pants Man got on, already has those scanners. Hmm. Another little clue somewhere there, methinks. Can't quite put my finger on it ...

 

And so the screw is turned another turn, and the poor old public sit there like frogs in the pot as the water heats up, so hypnotised by watching "Big Brother" on the telly that they don't seem to notice what's going on around them. This could have been quite a nice world; it really is no fun at all watching it sliding into totalitarianism, but I see far too many signs that that is exactly what's happening. As honesty requires, I shall stop believing in it when I see more evidence agin than for, but I don't, despite a lot of looking. Mostly, the conspiracy theories based on assuming the worst of human nature give you a much more coherent picture of what's going on, and it definitely looks, walks and quacks like a duck, not like any sort of goose which is about to benefit humanity with a golden egg.

 

Oh, and Gibber - well, unless you're posting from a Rothschild villa somewhere, of course - I don't accuse you, or Jews in general, of any of this stuff, only those, Jews and others, who are "up there" cr@pping on the rest of us. OK?

[Gibber]

A week or so off to deal with RL and now I'm being slagged off as some sort of irresponsible "conspiracy theorist" again here. Gib, you may believe that I have come to a conclusion you don't like, but from where I'm sitting I don't believe myself to have come to any such conclusion;

 

You indeed echoed the traditional Jewish conspiracy theory.

 

Incidentally, I fall into that over-140 IQ bracket myself - for what that's worth, as IQ testing is legendarily culture-specific - yet somehow I have never felt that I ought to be running everything or grabbing an excess of personal wealth…. not forcing my preferences and prejudices onto others in my own selfish interest.

 

Like many highly gifted Jews who work toward making a better world in many fields.

 

I’m as dubious of IQ tests as you are and my quote wasn’t meant to suggest that this alone is responsible for Jewish over-achievement. I don’t think there is a specific element that makes this group more able, I know its not the classic stereotypes that some associate with being Jewish.

 

Actually, most intelligent people I have met - including the Jewish ones - tend to take a pretty similar approach to life.

 

Let’s keep it in mind that money and power can be used for good, Jews are probably over represented in regard to that too.

 

You notice a certain grim similarity after a while ... the conspiracy theories involving the baser instincts of the power-hungry do seem to have a habit of showing up as true when the facts are eventually levered into the light.

 

Yes fair point about the 2nd group you mentioned.

 

As for my "conclusion" that "there is a contrived dubious underhand "control the world" conspiracy behind the achievements of Jewish people", presumably this would involve knowing about....

 

…And I have never claimed that the conspiracy - dubious and underhand as it certainly is - lies behind the achievements of (most) Jewish people; I have said elsewhere both that the great majority of Jewish people are nothing to do with the "élite" and that the "élite" includes numerous non-Jews. Presumably Jewish over-representation here, as elsewhere in positions of power, wealth and influence….

 

Good. Makes sense if you presuppose the truth of the one world government and all the rest.

 

In which case, it's a pity they prefer to use this great intelligence for the base purpose of grabbing personal power, rather than for trying to enlighten the rest of the human race and improving the lot of us all.

 

Yes, it’s a shame people of all groups do that.

 

and when I see other, presumably intelligent, people carrying on as the "élite" do, I'm going to make disparaging comments about it. If others choose to misinterpret this as an attack on the main ethnic group involved, well, maybe I could have phrased this or that a little better, but so be it. It's not. It's my contempt for those who abuse their intelligence to selfish ends - that's why I generally put quotes round "élite" - a real élite comprises the best, not just the cunningest, greediest and most self-serving.

 

Yes you should have phrased this better because it is classic affirmation of the racist “Jewish conspiracyâ€, I didn’t choose to misinterpret the following at all.

 

I have not felt the same about accounts of WWII since discovering the Jewish roots of Churchill, Eisenhower, Roosevelt and Stalin ... casts rather a different light on things, that. Interesting to note that none of the memoirs of Churchill, de Gaulle, etc., make any mention of "the" holocaust - oh, dear, you'd have thought they'd have noticed something like that.

 

There is however a deliberate attempt on your part to misdirect by using etc and ellipses to imply that there is a long list of names you could have added to your claim.

 

And Jewish roots? What particular Jewish traits did Stalin somehow inherit(?), was taught, lived by, according to his “roots� Please tell me what the Jewish roots of Stalin are and more importantly how these foundations manifested themselves? These roots certainly expressed themselves in an odd way considering his Jewish Purges.

 

You are saying that something pejorative and specifically Jewish was present in these leaders and in enough quantity so as to change your interpretation of history. What exactly?

 

Does it not strike anyone else as a tad unusual that an ethnic group comprising maybe a couple of percent of the populations involved somehow contrived to provide practically all the major players for something on the scale of a world war - not to mention most of the funding for both "sides"? It does me, I'm afraid.

 

It struck Hitler as a tad unusual too.

 

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/skeptic-magazine/skeptic-10.html

 

In Hitler's speech of January 30, 1939, he said:

Today I want to be a prophet once more: If international finance Jewry inside and outside of Europe should succeed once more in plunging nations into another world war, the consequence will not be the Bolshevization of the earth and thereby the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe.

 

In September, 1942, Hitler recalled:

 

In my Reichstag speech of September 1, 1939 [above, wrong date here], I have spoken of two things: first, that now that the war has been forced upon us, no array of weapons and no passage of time will bring us to defeat, and second, that if Jewry should plot another world war in order to exterminate the Aryan peoples in Europe, it would not be the Aryan peoples which would be exterminated but Jewry. . . .

 

At a public speech in Munich, November 8, 1942, Hitler told his audience (see Jaeckel, 1989 for this and above Hitler quotes):

 

You will recall the session of the Reichstag during which I declared: If Jewry should imagine that it could bring about an international world war to exterminate the European races, the result will not be the extermination of the European races, but the extermination of Jewry in Europe. People always laughed about me as a prophet. Of those who laughed then, countless numbers no longer laugh today, and those who still laugh now will perhaps no longer laugh a short time from now. This realization will spread beyond Europe throughout the entire world. International Jewry will be recognized in its full demonic peril; we National Socialists will see to that.

 

And to say they are the “main ethnic group†involved is badly phrased too, over represented as a percentage perhaps (and bear in mind that you are presupposing a lot of evil doing without posting any real evidence, but I take your point that over representation of high achievement here as in other professional fields is probable) but in the majority; no, somehow “in it together†as you're implying because they are from the same ethnic group, no. Would anyone ever say that Jewish doctors are “in it together†to help the sick? No.

 

Oh, and Gibber - well, unless you're posting from a Rothschild villa somewhere, of course - I don't accuse you, or Jews in general…

 

I’m not even a Jew specifically (if that’s what you meant).

 

…of any of this stuff, only those, Jews and others, who are "up there" cr@pping on the rest of us. OK?

 

Good for you, that’s what I wanted to hear and what you should have made clear to begin with.

 

I hope Holocaust denial resides in your 1st category of conspiracy theories.

[DamnSaxon]

"Like many highly gifted Jews who work toward making a better world" ... Yes, for sure. But not the minority who I'm talking about.

 

"money and power can be used for good, Jews are probably over represented in regard to that too" ... If they're over-represented in money and power generally, I should hope so. The biggest money and power boys seem to prefer to invest it in hoovering up more money and power, though.

 

"if you presuppose the truth of the one world government and all the rest" ... Don't have to presuppose a thing, just read the news a little more closely than is possible if you only read/watch/listen to mainstream media news. I must admit that the internet, for all the tosh to be found there, does make this a lot easier than my old habit of listening to the news on as many shortwave stations as I could find - easier on the ears, certainly.

 

"Yes, it’s a shame people of all groups do that." ... It's a bigger shame when the people concerned are wielding the sort of power they are. The biggest shame of all is that the human race hasn't yet found a way of keeping these people under control so they can't screw things up for the rest of us.

 

Etc and ellipses only mean I haven't read every contemporary account of WWII. Stalin? Was his name originally not Joseph David Djugashvili, a typically Ossettian/Khazar/Jewish name? If not, please point me to something authoritative and I'll cheerfully take him off the list and amend my world view accordingly.

 

"What exactly?" ... Mainly the astonishing concentration of Jews in the running of the whole business, as mentioned. Distinctly disproportionate, and for sure not using their money and power for good ends - at least, not ends which were good for most people.

 

"It struck Hitler as a tad unusual too." ... or might have, perhaps, except that he seems to have done most of his shopping with good ol' Prescott Bush, another of the clan and two of whose relatives have recently been spotted in a rather powerful position.

 

"without posting any real evidence" ... Surely that's the defining feature of a conspiracy theory? - As I pointed out above, the political theories are the ones which tend to turn out to be true when the facts eventually come out. If there was enough "real evidence" around, it would have stopped being a "conspiracy theory", like the handful I mentioned.

 

Jewish doctors "in it together to help the sick"? I hadn't noticed Jewish - or any other - doctors weilding disproportionate degrees of influence in their own cause, actually. I'd like to hope that all doctors are "in it together to help the sick", anyhow.

 

Holocaust denial? Definitely 1st category. Let that name not be used for the revisionists, though, since the purpose of revision is to clarify the facts. Every other historical event is routinely revised; why should WWII be any different? The more we know about what led to 75 million people being killed, the better - it might (pious hope) help us to stop it happening again.

 

"Good for you, that’s what I wanted to hear and what you should have made clear to begin with." ... OK, pax, all apologies for any unintended miscommunication and it's good to have cast a little light. To (mis)quote a Christmas play of my acquaintance, "If my play hath pleased you ill, Blame not my wit, but my lack of skill." Thank God (if He exists, of course) that we seem to be reducing hostilities, and a pity He can't duplicate the effort at the international level. Dammit, the Guy's supposed to be omnipotent!

 

To get back to the little bits of big conspiracy all around us, I was intrigued this morning to find a link which appears to indicate that the "sharp-dressed man" who whisked Mr. Abdulmutallab through security (without a passport, even!) at Amsterdam airport was a US Gov't agent. (the Haskell family were the fellow passengers who first reported this "sharp-dressed" man and, to their great credit, didn't just shut up about it.) No plotting by the US Gov't there, then. Jolly good.

 

And it seems the US's veterans are as fed up as a lot of us about the way those "Bin Laden tapes" keep turning up at mighty convenient points in the story, too, according to this link. If the British ones I've met are any guide, it's hard to dismiss ex-soldiers as a lot of credulous idiots who'll believe anything - rather, the opposite.

 

As I say, there's a lot going on which mostly doesn't seem to make it into the mainstream media undisguised, and very little of it bodes good. Very occasionally, bits of deeper truth do turn up in the main stream - an outstanding example was the BBC series "The Power of Nightmares" from five or six years ago. Once you've seen a government employee admitting on camera that "al-Qaida" was just a convenient umbrella name for all unspecified, apparently Muslim, terrorists, and not at all the organised global terror militia we're all supposed to believe in, you do (or should) begin to wonder exactly who's lying to us about what, and why. (It's still on the torrent sites, I believe. Download, watch, wonder.)

 

(Edit: I'd mucked up an italic.)