Spinner72 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 Though there is an obvious tendency to refer to the "Isles folk" when discussing ferries, lets not forget that the traffic flows two ways. There are commercial vehicles of all kinds with workers from all over Shetland queuing up to get into the Isles everyday. Given how many people still seem to be misunderstanding the current process (2000 and counting on facebook!), I think these few lines from the summary document are worth posting : "A process of further technical review and financial analysis is underway, alongside a process to establish the level of public acceptability of the measures.A series of options and the implications of their implementation will be provided to Council in September, to assist them in making decisions about which options to implement in order to achieve the budget savings agreed in February 2012." (my highlighting) I find it so odd that so many are forgetting that the decision to make the cuts has already been taken, where were all the petitions then when it mattered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted June 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^^^Sorry Spinner but the new councillors are not bound by decisions made by the former council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoogler Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 JustMe you are entirely wrong - the new Councillors are most certainly bound by the decisions of the old council - the budget has been set and it has to be implemented. The only thing the new councillors can perhaps do on the specifics within the budget is change the method of delivering the same outcome. So, if you want to rant on about not cutting ferry services, despite all the sensible comments made above, then you have to come up with an identical saving dfrom another part of the budget. Again, I would suggest you and others read the consultation document - i can see well over £1 million pound of savings that could be implemented without affecting the levels of service. I can also see much more that could be achieved in the longer term if some of the more radical options are pursued.It sounds like an awful lot of folk in Shetland just don't get it - the cuts are happening, its now a case of sensibly discussing where, when and how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unlinkedstudent Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^ Are you sure on that point, Shoogler? What happened to democracy and taking a vote or are you saying that it is in the Regulations that if a budget has been set they have to follow it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner72 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^^^Sorry Spinner but the new councillors are not bound by decisions made by the former council. No, but they are bound by the amount of money avaliable, the former council agreed a few of the cuts and some have already been implemented (as detailed in the review), the others are up to this council to decide in September, which is why this consultation is taking place. Long term, yes, I believe additional funding may well come from central government, and I hope all those who have typed a few letters into facebook also take the time to support more realistic options like these. Sorry, beginning to sound like a stuck record now, but it seem such a shame when the council is for once giving everyone so many options to have input into things going forward that so many aren't even bothering to find out whats proposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted June 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 JustMe you are entirely wrong - the new Councillors are most certainly bound by the decisions of the old council - the budget has been set and it has to be implemented. Are they bound to continue the wonderful wasteful decisions of the previous council?. Like are they bound to get rid of the next Chief Executive at great expense. Or spent a fortune not building a new AHS?. No I thought not. Our councillors can decide to do whatever they think is best for Shetland in the same way as a new government can undo decisions made by a previous government. That is democracy in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted June 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^^^Sorry Spinner but the new councillors are not bound by decisions made by the former council. No, but they are bound by the amount of money available, the former council agreed a few of the cuts and some have already been implemented (as detailed in the review), the others are up to this council to decide in September, which is why this consultation is taking place. Thinking about this there is more money available. The previous council decided that the reserve fund had to be maintained at a certain level. What if the new council was to decide that a lot of the proposed cuts were going to hurt the medium term prosperity of Shetland and that it would be far better to reduce the reserves while still finding ways to reduce the budget that did not harm the future prosperity of the whole of Shetland. I am not against rational cuts that do not do any great harm to those affected by them and I am sure that within the overall ferries budget there will be savings that can be found. But I am very much against any initial cuts simply because someone in the last council decided that the ferries budget had to reduce by £X. I am also concerned that cuts in services may not give any real savings. Not just in the ferries budget but across the board that cutting something will save £XYZ. Simple example. Little primary school costs thousands to run each year so close it and save thousands. Maybe not. Kids need to be transported to another school, to get fed and taught when they are there and then to be transported home. Costs that just move with the kids. And even if you close a school unless you just demolish it you still have maintenance costs........and maybe the few part time jobs that have been abolished are really hurting a rural community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoogler Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^ Are you sure on that point, Shoogler? What happened to democracy and taking a vote or are you saying that it is in the Regulations that if a budget has been set they have to follow it? Its quite simple really. If you don't have the money you can't spend it. Once a body such as a local authority has set a budget it is duty bound to instruct its senior officials (and its Head financial officer certainly has strictures to observe) to take all actions to operate within it. Why would the current council wish to overturn the very good work (finally) of the outgoing council in finally standing up, getting their heads out of the sand and preparing to take unpopular decisions that would help us to at least retain some of our reserves. There are so many people still in Shetland who just don't get it - fortunately it looks like the new council is able to grasp the nettle. Once again, I would suggest that people actually read the document on potential ferry cost options - it has some very good savings options in it, provided we are prepared to have less staff and their conditions are reviewed. There is also great scope for letting some smaller routes be tendered for I would think.Anyone who starts by encouraging a new council to go in and ignore the budget that was set and to allow overspending in Year one needs to think again.If people really don't believe efficiencies can be found in ferry operations, please put forward details of the alternative areas of savings that should be made instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner72 Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 I am also concerned that cuts in services may not give any real savings. Not just in the ferries budget but across the board that cutting something will save £XYZ. Absolutely, your example is spot on and there are infinite numbers of similar circumstances. Thankfully it does look (from the review documents we have seen so far ) that this kind of thing is being factored in, something that certainly wasn't done in previous exercises. Again, this is exactly what these consultations are for. Read up the proposals, go along/email/call/visit with your opinions and any other suggestions you may have. As you rightly say, this council may decide to ease back and make the rest of the cuts over a longer term, but at the very least I would hope all services continue to be treated equally. Many people have already had significant cuts to their wages and jobs have already been lost. It would be a massive kick in the teeth for these people if it were decided to let other departments carry on untouched. Something that has to be accepted is that sometime, these cuts will have to come unless outside funding can be found. To get back OT, as mentioned already, lots of the proposals are sensible and will save money without affecting services, indeed some (like improved ticketing) could actually improve services whilst making a saving. Lets hope the tabloid style adopted by the facebook page can be re-channeled into something useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoogler Posted June 22, 2012 Report Share Posted June 22, 2012 ^^Well said Spinner. And JusrMe i do agree about bad decisions leading to false economies, but we have to place some trust in the new council and senior officials (at least until their first 'mistake'!) to go about the unenviable task of cutting back/tidying up the mess from the previous decade and more.As you say Spinner, there are already significant cuts within SIC (restructuring of the upper management has removed i think about 40+ senior posts?) and the changes being implemented in Education amount to £4 million already, never mind what is being sought on this year and next - I think another £3 million. It strikes me the only growth area (other than fuel costs) over the last few years has been social care - now that is the place in which really radical thinking needs to happen as people live longer and longer - just wait for the SIC savings options in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 Why not try a real petition, though you would need to make your points and requests exact. The coastguards did very well with theirs ans swayed a GOV department. It is also something than ALL could sign.Folk need to put their names and addresses down, not use an anonymous FB site, fine for getting stuff from FB removed though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinner72 Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 ^^ Just a note to say I had hoped to start something along these lines (after speaking to the councilors seeking external funding, to ensure it supported what they were doing), but the Scottish Parliament e-Petition site is currently under refurb, hopefully it will be up and running soon. The FB group will be invaluable as a means of contacting those with an interest so there is a positive side http://epetitions.scottish.parliament.uk/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 There will be allot of work I think, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derick Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I do have a sort of answer. But this is a rather long term solution. New fuel efficient ferries designed for the routes they will run on and funded by Scotland/Europe so that the only effect to the SIC budget is a reduction in operating costs. Or of course fixed links funded the same way. Which brings wis neatly back to the huge renewable energy resource available. http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/03/new-diesel-electric-hybrid-ferries-are-a-seagoing-first/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted June 23, 2012 Report Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have often wondered why "electric" vessels for some of these shorter routes have not been used. With the VE project on line to start, as well as wave and tidal generation, it could be the only way forward. I would think the capitol required would be the sticking point as present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.