Virginia College Gun Rampage

[Roachmill]

And folk who don't want to drive can walk or get a bus. What would you do if you didn't want to carry a gun? Stay in doors? Use harsh language and hope they miss? There's just so many holes in your car argument it's laughable.

 

Would you propose easing folk into things by legalising knives first?

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Para handy wrote:

All I pointed out was that, if everybody had a gun, at least they would all be starting at the start line, an even chance, As for your other quote ‘I hope the following Quote also applies to you’ after the headline in the press

 

A child is killed by drunk driver in sports car

I stand with my peers on this matter in saying that if banning cars means one such child is saved, it is worth it.

 

reQuote, "sorry but I think someone missed it first time"

Cars serve a daily functional purpose in our society. If cars dissappeared tomorrow, our society would grind to a halt. If guns dissappeared tomorrow, you'd have a lot less people murdered. All other aspects of society would move ahead as if nothing happened.

 

In the United States approximately 30 000 people die from firearm injuries each year. Many more are wounded. In the mid 1980s, more than 3000 of the dead were children and adolescents aged 1 to 19 years.

In 1989 nearly 4000 firearm deaths were among children aged 1 to 19, accounting for 12% of all deaths in that group.

All of these deaths or injuries affect other children because the victims who are killed or wounded are frequently relatives, neighbors, or friends.

1987,

203 children aged 1 to 9 years.

484 children aged 10 to 14 years.

And 2705 adolescents aged 15 to 19 years died as a result of firearm injuries.

Firearm deaths include unintentional injuries, homicides, and suicides.

Among the 1- to 9-year-olds, half of the deaths were homicides and half were unintentional.

Among the 10- to 14-year-olds, one third of the deaths were homicides, one third were suicides, and one third were unintentional.

Among the 15- to 19-year-olds, 48% were homicides, 42% were suicides, and 8% were unintentional.

 

Firearm homicides are the leading cause of death for some US subpopulations, such as urban black male adolescents and young adults.

Anyway besides all that I dont much like the plan of guns to even the odds. There have been many times in my life where a gun would have been ideal for just this, but on hindsight it's just as well I didn't have one.

A child with a handgun would still be at a disadvantage against a determined drunk driver, he could duck down behind the steering wheel.

[Muppet]

.......one is just as bad as the other if people were responsible it would not mater but you just have to read the shetland times every week to see they are not.......

 

Does the same principle not come into play here? Perhaps if everyone was responsible there would not be a problem if everyone carried guns, but then of course we would not need them!

 

As you pointed out in a different thread though, everyone is not responsible. There has been plenty said about the atmosphere created on Commercial street with gangs of youths playing football, would you feel safer if they were all carrying handguns instead?

 

This country has 30 times less firearms deaths per head of population than America. It's not rocket science to think of a reason which might affect that statistic.

 

As I said earlier, guns kill! Less guns, less killing. Simple as!

[Sherlock]

Muppet (and Koyaanisqatsi - great name and amazing film, incidentally),

 

You eloquently paraphrase and distil what I, in my tendency to waffle, have failed to get across to the riotous Mr Handy.

[Para Handy]

^^^

 

I think the point is that cars do serve a valuable purpose in society whereas guns have no really purpose in any modern society and a ban can only help to reduce the risk they pose to innocent people. Risk to the public is managed as much as possible with vehicles too, through strict design features and regular MOT checking of roadworthyness. Drivers are also tested prior to licensing and banned whenever a potential risk is identified.

 

It's all about risk managment.

 

Sudden stop

 

I think the point is that cars do serve a valuable purpose in society whereas guns have no really purpose in any modern society.

 

Just remember that not everybody has the same view as you when it comes to cars.

My point was that if banning guns could saved one life the same thing can apply to car. or axe police baton, I regret any death whether buy a gun, or say cancer.

 

And if Sherlock. Came to the door ad told me that my brother had been killed, I would feel just as bad about it, just the same as if he was to say that a drunk driver had charged down commercial street when say commercial street was full of people during the tall ships, or just him self. As for my other point, if everybody had a gun, they at least be equal. If a 19 year old man attacks a 75 year old man. The 19 year old man would win, because he would be fitter, and could move faster on his feet, where as the 75 year old man could be in need of an hip replacement. If both had a gun in there hand they at least would even the odds some what. And up until now I have not stated the following. And I quote ‘ Everybody should go to the nearest armoury and be tooled up’ but people who wanted to shoot mite have been able to shoot say at a army range run by the army under proper super vision using army weapons. And remember some people grow up with guns in the house and use a gun with respect. Maybe it all depends on how you grow up, any sense of Self-discipline or morals of an tom cat

 

 

But when something like Dunblane or Hungerford happens the press imply that there deaths are more important than any death by any other means. As if the death of a bus load of school kids. Are killed we all should feel less dirty about it..

 

But I don’t have any problems with people who want shooting. Just as I don’t have any problems with people who want drive at 200 mph in a F1 sports car, but you can be killed doing ether

[Sudden Stop]

But when something like Dunblane or Hungerford happens the press imply that there deaths are more important than any death by any other means.

Not more important but more avoidable.

 

Just remember that not everybody has the same view as you when it comes to cars.

My view is that they serve a neccessary evil and that they are heavily regulated to make them and their use as safe as humanly possible. How do you do that with guns? Stick corks in the end of the barrel? Guns have no use other than to cause harm, that's what they are designed and built to do. To ensure a gun is safe, either destroy it or don't even make it in the first place.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

para handy wrote:

If a 19 year old man attacks a 75 year old man. The 19 year old man would win, because he would be fitter, and could move faster on his feet, where as the 75 year old man could be in need of an hip replacement. If both had a gun in there hand they at least would even the odds some what. if everybody had a gun, they at least be equal.

 

They might be walking down the road both gun in hand but more likely they would opt for concealment. The 19 year old would not likely announce his intentions from the other end of the street, he would most likely get up close and personal before launching a surprise attack the old man would most likely be defeated, if he tried to pull a gun he would likely lose that, most likely his life as well, oh and the mugger would now have 2 guns, one for his pal maybe.

 

para quote:

They cam make all the gun laws they want. But there will always be somebody who will ignore them. If it means they can get there hands on more money. Hitler maybe dead but his creed is still on the march

You think maybe the BNP wouldn't try to arm their hive of insects with legal guns.?

 

para quote:

I regret any death whether buy a gun, or say cancer.

 

Not enough obviously, or why would you wish to top up the number of cancer deaths by adding on many unnecessary gun deaths.

 

para quote:

all men have the same weapon to do the same thing. That means that all the men in the world. Will now have to go to their local hospital and have the weapon removed just in case it might happen again

 

pinched from another thread after being pinched from an analysis on Bush:

Just as sexual repression can lead to aggression,

a culture of war can equate

intimacy with violence. Lethal weapons

are described in loving, phallic terms

We have transposed genital sexuality

onto a non-sexual object - the gun

This is pure fetishism.

[Para Handy]

(** mod edit - quote removed **)

 

Admin - Forum use guidelines[/url]"]Don't use unnecessary and/or long quotes - When using the quote function, only quote the parts of a previous post directly relevant to your reply. Unnecessary quotations make page lengths excessive and unwieldy to navigate

 

There is no need to quote the whole post made immediately prior to yours. Doing so breaks the flow of the conversation and forces people to re-read posts

 

Alternatively, use a "^" symbol (to indicate you are referring to the post immediately above yours), use "<--snip-->" (to indicate you have truncated a long quote) or just post a reply!

 

KOYAANISQATSI

Quotes

 

Not enough obviously, or why would you wish to top up the number of cancer deaths by adding on many unnecessary gun deaths.

 

I think cancer deaths are unnecessary as well as death by heart attack and drowning as well, as seen of the cost of Shetland last week, maybe you would like to ban boats and cancer to why not ban every thing that could get you killed, that would pit a stop to all of it. Or better still why don’t you just stay at home and never come out side the door. Oops you cant do that as your home can kill you as well, 4 years in the fire brigade proved that point.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

I get the feeling that you could happily continue this arguement in an empty room by yourself. I see many are trying and failing to get through to you the difference between tools and weapons, one being made to make life easier and the other designed to destroy life.

if you could just clarify what defines the need for a gun, "no more death scenario comparisons please, we get that bit" yes there are lots of ways to die. Just where in that sum though does the introduction of guns help to improve death statistics.

(no war storys now, thats cheating)

[Para Handy]

I get the feeling that you could happily continue this arguement in an empty room by yourself. I see many are trying and failing to get through to you the difference between tools and weapons, one being made to make life easier and the other designed to destroy life.

if you could just clarify what defines the need for a gun, "no more death scenario comparisons please, we get that bit" yes there are lots of ways to die. Just where in that sum though does the introduction of guns help to improve death statistics.

(no war storys now, thats cheating)

 

As far as I can see you cant do any thing with out knocking on your door, to see if you approve of it, there are people in this world who think otherwise. In this country they are already band. But the Uk is a big island, and anybody can smuggle in a gun by sea. Any where around the coast. Just ask the IRA,

So all of you who want to eradicate them, just mite as well, go to the nearest workshop and get a bucket of sparks for the grinder. You’ll be just as successful.. If it wasn’t for war every thing we use would probably not exist.Regardless of how much you disprove of it

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Ah I see, interesting, tell me was the need to start war so that things may exist your one defining reason for needing a gun.?

Does this band in our country smuggle them in, in guitar cases.?

Reading back through these posts of yours, well there has been so much to absorb and I'll tell you this para you've given me a lot to think about on ideas of how a gun could possibly be of some use.

 

I think I'll leave you to it anyhow, thanks it's been far out man, and erm good luck with your war thing.

[Para Handy]

Ah I see, interesting, tell me was the need to start war so that things may exist your one defining reason for needing a gun.?

Does this band in our country smuggle them in, in guitar cases.?

Reading back through these posts of yours, well there has been so much to absorb and I'll tell you this para you've given me a lot to think about on ideas of how a gun could possibly be of some use.

 

I think I'll leave you to it anyhow, thanks it's been far out man, and erm good luck with your war thing.

 

Yes cheers mate, it makes a change, to be able to have a argument, at a distance, and by the internet. As for war , it may not apply so much these days, but it did in the past. Microwaves and mobile phones not forgetting the computer of course. Somebody has to try and play devils advocate some times.

At least it’s giving me a chance, to improve my spelling some what. But punctuation needs a lot more work yet.

After all the shetlink forum. would be pointless, if we all thought the same thing. At least it give us all a chance to debate on the issues that affects us all in the end.