Shetlandic words, help needed

[DePooperit]

Yes - the usual pronunciationof 'vynd' is to rhyme with 'mind', 'find', etc. The Y makes this more obvious than the alternative spelling 'vind' which could be more easily mispronounced to rhyme with 'tinned'.

 

There's also a variant 'vand', which in my pronunciation has a short 'a' and rhymes with the Shaetlan pronunciation of 'canned', 'tanned', rather than with 'waand', 'baand', etc.

 

In some words, however, there is local variation in similar words - I say 'saand' to rhyme with 'waand', but in Sandwick they say it 'sand' (almost like English 'send') to rhyme with 'canned', etc.

[clanchief]

Can anyone tell me what a "Soadin-Dyke" is ?

 

This word is not in the Shetland Dictionary

[Ghostrider]

^^^ No idee! We onlee wirk we staney and faely daeks aboot heer.

 

Whaur an whit wye is hit uised, hits mebbe juist dat ill-spelt is no ta be recognisible?

[deardron]

From Jakobsen:

 

sodin-dike (U) - a stone fence built out from a sheepfold to prevent the sheep from scattering when driven into the fold. Also soda- and soida-dike (Conn.), sodiskrö-dike (Du.). From Old Norse sauðr 'sheep', gen. pl. sauða. The word dike is from English/Scots.

[clanchief]

Thanks for the info.

 

I have now found a para in James R Nicolson's book "Traditional Life in Shetland " on this subject -

 

"Dr Jakobsen was not surprised to find differences in the vocabulary from place to place .....this confirmed his contention that the original Norse settlers had come from different parts of South-West Norway, bringing with them their own dialects which influenced the form of speech in different parts of Shetland.

He was intrigued by the name given in different parts of Shetland to the wall that projects from the sheep fold to assist the penning of sheep. In Unst it was known as a Soadin Daek ( from old Norse Soeta meaning to waylay) ; in Fetlar it was called a rekster daek ( from O.N. rekster, meaning the driving of animals) and in Yell it was known as a stillyers daek ( from O.N. stili meaning a trap for animals). Even on the Mainland there was no uniformity, since in Northmavine it was known as a retta daek ( from O.N. rett or Sheep fold) while in Central Shetland it was called a stuggi daek or cro stuggi, which Dr Jacobsen suggested might be derived from O.N. stuka or sleeve."

[Trønder]

I have seen suggested that there was even some Sami emigration to at least Orkney. Are there any linguistic remnants of this?

 

***MOD EDIT - Removed excess quoting ***

[Rasmie]

da aald eens had an oral tradition o' Finnie men comin til Shetland i der skin boats, Trønder. peerie dark men. Soonds like men fe da arctic zone! We ey tocht dey might a ben Inuit, but i suppose dey could a been Sami. I met a half Sami eence on Måloy an I understood dey wer a bit lik da Lapps? as dat richt?

[Trønder]

They are the same. Lapp is an now obsolete Scandinavian name for the Sami. They have also been called Finns, as they speak Finno-Ugric languages related to Finnish. Both can be considered derogatory, at least if used by Norwegians or Swedes.

 

It is very interesting that there is an oral tradition in Shetland. I find it more likely that it is the Sami, if the stories are true. The Sami population stretches quite far south in Norway, and there is evidence that it stretched well into southern Norway in the past. It is much shorter from southern Norway to Shetland than from Greenland, and besides, the Dorset culture in Greenland had been dying out during the first millennium. Most of Greenland, except maybe the extreme north, was empty when the Norwegians and Icelanders got there in the 10th century and the Inuits who live there now are the descendants of later movement of people from Arctic Canada.

 

There has been a lot of intermarriage throughout the centuries so the distinction between Norwegian and Sami is blurred, but traditionally the Sami have been smaller, darker and had higher cheekbones. I found this old picture on Wikipedia:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/87/Saami_Family_1900.jpg/800px-Saami_Family_1900.jpg

[Dagfinn]

They have also been called Finns, as they speak Finno-Ugric languages related to Finnish.

This has something to do with "Shetlandic Words"?

Anyway, just for the record; as I understand it, the Finnish word for Finland "Suomi" is the same word as "Sami" and both originally mean "Land" or something like that.

And the word "Lapp" is Finnish, meaning "a person living in the wilderness".

 

The Sami population stretches quite far south in Norway, and there is evidence that it stretched well into southern Norway in the past.

I believe the Sami were the original people of all Scandinavia, and were pushed northwards by the Germanic tribes, when they arrived. Kind of like the Celts were pushed westards to Wales and Cornwall by the Anglo-Saxons in England.

In both cases there was a lot of intermarriage as well.

[Trønder]

This has something to do with "Shetlandic Words"?

Well, it started with a question about whether or not there had been any linguistic, or place name for that matter, evidence for it. Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

I believe the Sami were the original people of all Scandinavia, and were pushed northwards by the Germanic tribes, when they arrived.

Yes, it seems probable that the Sami, or more correctly the ancestors of the Sami, were the original inhabitants of Fenno-Scandinavia. Whether the "Norwegians" and "Swedes" were Germanic tribes moving in or a people that moved in and later became Germanic-speaking is a more open question as i understand it though. As was pointed out in another thread on these boards there is a significant genetic difference between Norwegians and Danes. It could be a combination of both I guess, as places like Romerike and Hordaland are supposedly named after old Germanic tribes. There are also place names in southern Norway with no know Indo-European (or Finno-Ugric) explanations, not that I can remember any examples off the top of my head.

 

I read a theory many years ago that we are the same people as the Finnish, but that the Norwegians/Swedes were later Germanified. I don't know if there is any hold in it though.

[deardron]

I think the possible Saami/Finno-Ugrian connection to Shetland has a right for to be discussed here, not least if we remember that one of numerous hypotheses about the origin of Picts (or their non-Celtic branch if existed) was descendance from Finno-Ugrian tribes. This hypothesis can be opposed by the fact that most of indigenous population of North Scotland is genetically very closed to Basks, so we might be thinking that the pre-Celtic/pre-Norsemen population of Scotland and its archipelagoes was rather connected to Basks than to Finns. Nevertheless, with as little as we know about Picts, it's too early to refute any hypothesis. The pre-Indo-European population of Europe (Basks, Picts, Etrusks etc.) is an extremely interesting subject and Shetland did surely play its role in it.

[thekid]

"MODER DY"

Does this mean "mother wave????

 

I was told that a wave within a number of waves went towards the shore?

and this was the" moder dy" and could guide you to the shore if you knew what to look for.

 

buggered if i know if this is true but i asked a lot of people what "moder dy" was and that was the only one time i got a answer. so if anyone can be more precise in its meaning please enlighten me.

[deardron]

"MODER DY"

Does this mean "mother wave????

 

I was told that a wave within a number of waves went towards the shore?

and this was the" moder dy" and could guide you to the shore if you knew what to look for.

 

buggered if i know if this is true but i asked a lot of people what "moder dy" was and that was the only one time i got a answer. so if anyone can be more precise in its meaning please enlighten me.

Yes, according to Jakobsen dy [däi] means commotion in the sea or wave and comes most likely from Old Norse. He also writes:

däi or sometimes moderdäi, a shoreward drift, current under the surface of the sea, by which the fishermen (before the compass was in general use) steered their boats to the shore, e.g. in fog; to finn de land by de däi (Burra).

[thekid]

thanks for that,pity this skill has been lost, if it ever existed?

[thekid]

What does gardie mean?