EM Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 so em whats you view on the B.N.P.Scum. In terms of how society should legislate such people I think that most banning is pointless window dressing. The approach in Germany is a good example of this failure. There they have very harsh rules on usage of the symbols of the Third Reich, but it is irrelevant. Instead of flying swastikas the street activists use the Imperial battle banner, as well as wearing Lonsdale clothing because they can't use the NSDAP title. Same people, same opinions. Not much achieved by that I reckon. I also never quite see why such people are called Neo-Nazis. They are Nazis, why is there a need to use the Neo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 A few years ago I was a wee bit involved with the Anti Nazi League. Although the sentiment was there, there were zelots within that organisation.Folk were so misted by the hype that was generated it culmanated in a black police officer having the granny (crap) kicked oota him at a demonstration.There was organised violence, or at least a preparation of it. Our protests were ment to be peaceful, alas no. Because of their action, they lost a good bulk of their membership as did the Socialist Workers Party, folk just canced their standing orders, I was one of them. I dont know about calling them fascists tho, may be fundamentalists or may be the last 10 letters of that word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 ... may be fundamentalists or may be the last 10 letters of that word.Hmmm. Seems to be a day for confusion (or some may say, pedantry). Do you mean something like "mental" people as a pejorative? A mentalist is a stage performer, such as Derren Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulb Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Maybe shetlandpeat means that any extreme view ends up the same way. Look at fascists Nazis communists and any other that you can think of. They all victimize a under group no matter what it is. could be Jews, black even bad spellers but the end result is always the same. if your not one of us your sub human. lots of that knocking about and not all in the bnp or even the snp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Mentalism is a performing art in which its practitioners, known as mentalists, use mental acuity, cold reading, hot reading, principles of stage magic. I think some of their practices to fear up the masses is smoke and mirrors, distortion of the facts, making you look at what they want you to look at then thinking what they do is right.It is all a stage act... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibber Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 The approach in Germany is a good example of this failure. There they have very harsh rules on usage of the symbols of the Third Reich, but it is irrelevant. Instead of flying swastikas the street activists use the Imperial battle banner, as well as wearing Lonsdale clothing because they can't use the NSDAP title. I don't think it is irrelevant, old school Nazi imagery has direct pinpoint specific connotations of what has happened in history, the symbols they use now (although intended to emulate the tokens of the past) by their very existence also symbolise how Nazism is no longer legal and institutionalised. There will always be Naziesque groups in Europe but their existence as political and social movements can be stopped. Outlawing swastikas is one way of showing and doing this. Germany needs these rules, to say they are a failure only makes sense if they are regarded as not harsh enough. It would be easy enough to legislate against groups using symbols that emulate old Nazism, Germany should do this in my opinion. You start letting Germans fly swastikas today, tomorrow its, "here we go again" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 But we continue letting Christians display crosses despite it having killed more people than Nazism ever did across history? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 ... also symbolise how Nazism is no longer legal and institutionalised. There will always be Naziesque groups in Europe but their existence as political and social movements can be stopped.Your other points raise interesting questions, but just concentrating on the above, what is your opinion on the very different post-war situation concerning the Italian Fascists? It is, I think, very interesting to see how that turned out. I expect you will see it as supporting your view, as well as being pertinant to the current BNP developments. I remember being in Italy when the Fascists first got back into government and asked a guy there how he felt about it. He squirmed a bit and pointed out that the 90's Fascists were not really comparable to their earlier incarnation (in that case Neo-Fascist would appear to be a useful term). "In fact more like Margaret Thatcher" he claimed. My response was "Really? I had no idea they were so extreme!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 But we continue letting Christians display crosses despite it having killed more people than Nazism ever did across history? We must never talk about how religion is used as a reason for murder. I suppose that the christian belief is not about killing those born cripple but the bible sez, as does other books for creeds that the infedels or hethens should be dispatched with heavenly force. But you are right there a bit, the cross is a sign of murder, but really, a sacrifice so we can go "oh yer, we must be good" where as the Nazis in 1939 were a little more vindictive and I suppose the concentration of the murders and other persicutions in those few years are alot more than folks running around with swords.But, are we not in a battle now, East v. West, or so it seems. The BNP are not a religious group but do claim to be Christians, yet they go agains so called Christian values. But both sides had god on their side. The BNP could never create a dictatorship as in Italy, Germany and Spain. Too many of them want to be in control. For a start, they would never get the support. It will be interesting to see the outcome of their vote to allow non-whites through their door. What I do think about is what non-white would want to be the 1st, if any. Some of this IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Germany needs these rules, to say they are a failure only makes sense if they are regarded as not harsh enough. It would be easy enough to legislate against groups using symbols that emulate old Nazism, Germany should do this in my opinion.Easy? I really don't think so. How for example do you suggest they should deal with the Lonsdale situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibber Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 http://sites.google.com/site/engineblockers/Lonsdale4.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 BNP on Question Time tonight, should be interesting. I really hope the BNP bring up expenses and claim that the MP's aren't pure and all - so we can say right back to them: "Well Nicky boy, you did deny the holocaust!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styles Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Yeah, looking forward to tonight, just hope there are not some idiots who try to distrupt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 Folk are protesting outside the BBC to say that alowing NG there is accepting his beliefs. Without going into what he denies, I would be more interested in the content of his answers regarding the running of the country in his eyes.No doubt the focus will be on the race relation and I remember here in the NW where he represents in Europe the debate on the radio was a little about getting one over.I hope that this is a serious debate, and as said, not disrupted. But I can only think that folk may become a wee bit emotional about it. So maybe some allowances may have to be made, but not too many, or there may be a few more supporters if it goes wrong or it looks as if he is being bullied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 I really hope the BNP bring up expenses and claim that the MP's aren't pure and all - so we can say right back to them: "Well Nicky boy, you did deny the holocaust!" David Cole used logical, rational, and analytic thought; carrying out a careful unbiased examination of the evidence to conclude there were no gas chambers and he's Jewish; So what's your point? or are you just piping up your usual little soundbyte, rather than attempt to answer questions that you have never looked into yourself, about a belief that has been drip fed you all your life.I could say the exact same about the 9/11 conspiracy theory. But you don't believe the experts then. Some people think that David Ray Griffin has carried out 'logical, rational and analytic thought' about 9/11 and he has not! Please show me a peer-reviewed paper which proves that the holocaust didn't happen. Peer-reviewed and not one which you pay to get your article published in like the 9/11 deniers do. Aw go on, surprise me. Until you do, I'll wait. A PM is suffice. Yeah, looking forward to tonight, just hope there are not some idiots who try to distrupt it.They're worse than the BNP! Bloody fascists! "We don't like what the fascists say so we're not going to let them say it!" Um.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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