Just Curious: Medieval History and Identity

[Shifte]

Hi there.

 

I'm working on a project of sorts that involves quite a bit of Scottish medieval history. Upon reading some general books I decided I wanted to get a better understanding of the northern aspects of the country, especially the Isles, since they're so interesting and unique culturally and historically. Would anyone here be able to suggest a good source of medieval history for the Isles? I'd appreciate any help you can offer

 

And as a brief aside; I've seen some debate around about how 'Scottish' people on the Isles feel. Perhaps ignorantly, being from Glasgow, I've always presumed people in the Highlands and above were the most 'Scottish' of us all because it's the nationalistic heart of the country. Without wanting to offence, cause an argument or potentially open a can of worms; would anyone here be willing to tell me a bit about people from Shetland and whether they identify with the same country (Scotland) that I do?

 

Thanks for the help and sorry if I've been rude or presumptuous!

 

- Shifte.

[paulb]

that will make an intresting study. you cound contact the uhi they do a course on shetland and orkney history. expect some comments on the treatment of the shetlanders at the hands of the mainland scots. good luck.

there are loads of books that you could look at. you could contact the archives and speak to the chap their.

[MuckleJoannie]

No doubt someone will be along to give you more detailed sources but there is a summary of Shetland history here

 

http://visit.shetland.org/history

[EM]

I've always presumed people in the Highlands and above were the most 'Scottish' of us all because it's the nationalistic heart of the country.

You'll find quite a variety of opinions on the whole Shetland identity question ranging across the spectrum from hard core UK through to the pro-Nordic types. What you will not encounter, I believe, is anyone who would remotely argue that Shetlanders are anywhere near to being the most Scottish of Scotland. Not even the SNP.

 

I think it is also fair to say that you'll find it rare to encounter anyone who'd seriously argue that there is much shared identity between the populations of the Western and Northern isles, however similar the geographical appearances.

[Ghostrider]

.....whether they [shetlanders] identify with the same country (Scotland) that I do?

 

Good God!. NO!

[Shifte]

Aye, makes sense. Really I've just been quite ignorant of it all! I guess all the way down here I just made the assumption that there was a shared national identity, but that's oddly similar to the assumption I hate about folk who consider me English... live and learn! It makes me wonder what'd ever happen if Salmond somehow got his referendum through, unlikely as it is.

 

Thanks for the links and I'll check up on them all, appreciate it

[joenorth]

Trevor-Roper's section in Hobsbawm's 'The Invention of Tradition' is a good synopsis of how today's 'Highland' Scottish cultural character came to dominate (and this happened much more recently than in medieval times).

 

Mitchison's 'A History of Scotland' deals with some of the ancestral Scots cultures which were supplanted by this 'Highland' construction (Shetland is one of the last parts of Scotland where we see some of the last acknowledged vestiges of the Scandinavian part of our identity).

 

Recent work in Shetland by Prof. Britt Cartrite found that many islanders would never describe themselves as Scottish, and, if I remember rightly, he describes Shetlanders as 'the least Scottish of the Scots'. Having said that, many young islanders do see themselves as Scottish.

 

A shared Scottish national identity is a recent thing, and arguably based on a discourse which has little association with medieval history. Also, it's a discourse which hasn't quite taken over the thinking of the Shetlanders yet!

[filskadacat]

.....whether they [shetlanders] identify with the same country (Scotland) that I do?

 

Good God!. NO!

Certainly my generation (I'm just a bit older than Ghostrider I think) would speak about 'Going to Scotland' on holiday. Among the really obvious differences; none of the Scottish stereotypes of kilts, bagpipes and tartan is relevant to Shetland.

[Ironwithin]

Shetlanders are Shetlanders first and Scottish second.

[Shifte]

Varied replies! Begs the question as to how British you chaps feel Is that third?

 

I'm planning to read more into the norse influences up north, thanks for all the help.

[Ghostrider]

^^ Shetlander first, British second, Scottish because we are forced to be considered as such due to the shenanigans of some old long dead Royalty.

[EM]

Begs the question as to how British you chaps feel Is that third?

That is something where you'll not find much consensus. Some will claim to feel British but not Scottish and so on.

 

It is worth adding that it is very rare to find Shetlanders who have much liking for the idea of being European, this due mainly to the EU fishing and agriculture policies which haven't been particularly popular here. I am unusual in being highly pro-European, but I can clearly see why this is not common in Shetland.

[Bluemire]

Firstly it's nice to see somebody who likes to ask the questions before just assuming! I consider myself a true born shetlander, as far back as all my family trees go we have always been in Shetland. I do have ancestors who lived it caithness and got chased out for stealing sheep and moved to Shetland but that's the only connection my family have to the mainland, alot of my family have emigrated but mostly to America and new zeland. I also have Nordic connections a piece down my family tree. I'm unsure whether it's because of my love for Shetland and the history it holds or not but I would never consider myself English (no offence, my father in law is English) Scottish would be my second option but I feel I'm definitely 100% shetlander!

[gruidsy]

The two Shetland Documents books by archivist Brian Smith and John Ballantyne contain hundreds of relevant items from your time period. Also, Hance Smith's book The making of modern Shetland might be of interest.

[Kavi Ugl]

I'm not Scottish and never have been and never will be.

 

I also resent Shetland being ruled by Scotland and the sooner we break away from Scotland the better. Where I can, I refer to it as "going to Scotland" or alternatively just "down south".

 

I live in Lerwick on The Mainland.

 

My personal leanings are towards Shetland's norse roots with a family tree(on one side) that goes back to a man called Hendrik Hendriksen.

 

Don't swallow the scottified parp that you get fed by BBC Scotland or even the Shetland media because neither do I live in the so-called "Northern Isles". This is just a scottification, pushed mostly by the BBC and Shetland media, aka Western & Northern Isles.

 

Yes my views are strong but I am a Shetlander and I live in Shetland, pure and simple.

 

 

Edit: You might also like to get a copy of the small book "From a Shetland Lairdship to a Norwegian Barony: the Mouat family and the Barony of Rosendal" by Jørn Øyrehagen Sunde. It contains a quite a bit of information about Shetland's trading links with Norway after the 1469 pawning which aren't included in the Shetland Document books.....for some reason......