Climate Change & Global Warming

[Colin5524]

Ok

 

Emeritus Professor of Biogeography at the University of London, Philip Stott summed up his thoughts on the issue in a newspaper article in 2005.

 

“Climate change has to be broken down into three questions: 'Is climate changing and in what direction?' 'Are humans influencing climate change, and to what degree?' And: 'Are humans able to manage climate change predictably by adjusting one or two factors out of the thousands involved?' The most fundamental question is: 'Can humans manipulate climate predictably?' Or, more scientifically: 'Will cutting carbon dioxide emissions at the margin produce a linear, predictable change in climate?' The answer is 'No'. In so complex a coupled, non-linear, chaotic system as climate, not doing something at the margins is as unpredictable as doing something. This is the cautious science; the rest is dogma.â€

 

Did you know that since satellites have been in space this year the lowest melting of ice was record in the Antartic, no the findings werent by BP or another oil funded party but by the Journal of geophsical research.

 

i could go on and post links and qoutes from all people from all reputable universities and research companys as im sure you could. Were all Dooooooooomed i think not. We survived an ice age so slap on the shades and actor 40 and get ready to ride out the heat age

[ArabiaTerra]

Did you know that since satellites have been in space this year the lowest melting of ice was record in the Antartic, no the findings werent by BP or another oil funded party but by the Journal of geophsical research.

Yet the Arctic continues to melt.

 

And this should explain to you how a momentary snapshot of conditions in the Antarctic do not disprove AGW.

i could go on and post links and qoutes from all people from all reputable universities and research companys

Bring it on. I will refute every one.

[crofter]

Yet the Arctic continues to melt.

 

The article you have linked to says that there is MORE ice in the arctic this year compared to the previous 2 years.

[ArabiaTerra]

Look, Colin5524, there are two things you need to do before I will take you seriously. These are:

 

1. You must come up with a plausible mechanism to explain the current warming without recourse to man-made carbon emissions.

 

and

 

2. You must explain how we can increase the proportion of CO2 in the atmosphere by 50% without affecting the climate.

 

All you've done so far is repeat the same old denier myths that have been debunked a thousand times. These are called zombie lies, statements that have been shown to be lies, comprehensively debunked yet still turn up because the people spouting them are too lazy to do the research required to check their facts. Please stop, I am sick and tired of dealing with this crap.

[ArabiaTerra]

Yet the Arctic continues to melt.

 

The article you have linked to says that there is MORE ice in the arctic this year compared to the previous 2 years.

 

While this year's September minimum extent was greater than each of the past two record-setting and near-record-setting low years, it is still significantly below the long-term average and well outside the range of natural climate variability

[crofter]

 

While this year's September minimum extent was greater than each of the past two record-setting and near-record-setting low years, it is still significantly below the long-term average and well outside the range of natural climate variability

 

Doesn't look too bad to me...

 

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.area.jpg

 

Will be interesting to see what it looks like this time next year.

[Njugle]

Regarding food waste:

 

The Guardian[/url]"] Food waste also costs UK consumers £10.2bn a year and when production, transportation and storage are factored in, it is responsible for 5% of the UK's greenhouse gas emissions.

 

The Wrap[/url]"]every tonne of food we throw away needlessly is responsible for 4.5 tonnes of CO2 equivalent emissions.

 

Food waste is an enormous challenge, not least because most of us don’t yet recognise the amount we all produce. But it is also a massive opportunity – to reduce waste, save money and minimise our impact on the environment.

Direct reduction of CO2 emissions is an easy target, the wider range of threads to the environmental weave are harder to quantify but no less significant, as far as I can see.

[Colin5524]

Can you show me how these lies have been debunkered please and as a new user of the forum you have made me feel very welcome thanks , had to add that

[KOYAANISQATSI]

Don't worry about ArabiaTerra Colin, he's got a touch of the fervor of the zealot when it comes to his little Theory.

 

Note how he'll say Milankovitch cycles don't have enough kick to account for any warming we may (or may not) see. If you check his link you'll see it is also known as "Milankovitch Theory" or in other words 'an unproved assumption', much like his but with more work put in.

 

Of course as far as either of them know, Earth’s last Ice Age could have come suddenly to an end due to a cosmic catastrophe that was caused by Earth being in orbit of a proto-Saturnian system and entering into the present Sun’s domain of influence, with Cronus giving way to Sol Invictus.

Like any religion; when the facts are still up in the air, you'll find lots of interpretations at ground zero.

 

@Skunnered

I doubt the planes coming at us from prestwick airport, (I checked with sumburgh) our local-est American base; are trying in any way to help with anything but more likely, trying to induce the symptoms for the AGW bullsh*t were now being force fed.

[JohanofNess]

Look, Colin5524, there are two things you need to do before I will take you seriously. These are:

 

Be nice, Shetlink hasn't been provided to allow you to go on your crusade.

 

Please stop, I am sick and tired of dealing with this crap.

 

Then don't, we're allowed to have opinions of our own no matter how much you care to stomp your feet.

[DamnSaxon]

There's another bit of probably relevant information which might yet jump out to complicate all our arguments about climate change. As a radio enthusiast, I like to keep an eye on the state of the ionosphere, as it affects radio signals, and one of the strongest influences on that is sunspots.

 

At the moment. we're experiencing a very long period of very low sunspot activity. Most of us thought at the beginning of the year that, after spending most of 2008 in a quiet state, we should see an upturn in activity sometime this year - the next maximum is supposed to be along in about 2011, maybe into 2012.

 

We're still waiting. A few fizzles here and there, but no upturn. Maybe the count's going to go up like a rocket in six months or so, but definitely no sign of much happening yet.

 

The last time the sunspots went away for more than a year or so was 300 or so years ago, when they disappeared for several decades. It was called the 'Maunder Minimum', and it coincided with the 'little ice age' from which we have been warming slowly back up ever since. It may, or may not, have caused the ice age, but the correlation is there to see. It suggests at least that both might have been results of something else.

 

There are also recent suggestions by Nasa on their website that sunspots may actually be dying out at the moment, which is what makes me wonder about Maunder. It takes a certain amount of solar magnetism for them to form, and records of the Sun's magnetic field over the last 20 years or so show that the field is dropping rapidly, and getting distinctly close to that minimum sunspot-forming value.

 

Whether we're in for another Maunder-type minimum, who knows? But if so, and if another little ice age does accompany it, there should at least be plenty of hot air available from us radio enthusiasts bitching about terrible reception conditions to keep everybody warm. Definitely worth keeping an eye on the sunspot count, though.

[trout]

Look, Colin5524, there are two things you need to do before I will take you seriously. These are:

 

Be nice, Shetlink hasn't been provided to allow you to go on your crusade.

 

Please stop, I am sick and tired of dealing with this crap.

 

Then don't, we're allowed to have opinions of our own no matter how much you care to stomp your feet.

 

Seconded, thank you JohanofNess. Play fair. Opinions are each to our own. Dialogue is not a one way street.

[crofter]

 

While this year's September minimum extent was greater than each of the past two record-setting and near-record-setting low years, it is still significantly below the long-term average and well outside the range of natural climate variability

 

Doesn't look too bad to me...

 

http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/current.area.jpg

 

Will be interesting to see what it looks like this time next year.

 

OK AT, here is a better graph than the one I posted yesterday

 

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

 

How can anyone say that the red line (this year) is well outside the range of natural climate variability? How can anybody say that it is significantly below the long-term average when they have only been monitoring for 30 years? I agree that it is low compared to the rest of the data, but you are wrong to say

Yet the Arctic continues to melt.

The data does not support it - consider yourself debunkered!

[crofter]

More inconvenient data:

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.radiobremen.de%2Fwissen%2Fnachrichten%2Fwissenawipolararktis100.html&sl=de&tl=en&history_state0=

 

Surprising Results

Eisdecke am Nordpol ist dicker als erwartet At the North Pole ice sheet is thicker than expected

[shetlandpeat]

There are as many opinions as there are folk. We are all entitled to one.

 

I think that there are measures we have to take, if not just to save our own income. This society we live in has become so wasteful.

I have always thought what would happen if we produced a minimum of rubbish. The fact that we throw away so much has helped to put us in a situation where we have to think of what we do.

Icecaps. sunspots and other theories that folk may not be able to get their head around is an argument that will fall on stoney ground, the seed you sow needs to be tended, encouraged and rewarded, I think that may be the way forward, for now.

Some of us are quick thinkers, some need a little time and some may need a different tack to understand, some of this has sorta put me off abit.

We don't know who is right yet, all we can do is what we think is the right thing. Governments can force you to do your bit, but do not have the means to police it.

 

And at the moment, from what I see here in this part of the country, folk are hell bent on just satisfying their own needs..and they will chuck a few coppers in the collecting tin and feel so good about it.

 

We need to step back and re-evaluate, then start to be productive and proactive in our own quests, find some common ground and build from there.

 

Socierty is really only as strong as its foundations

 

IMHO