Shetland Football 2009??

[Jay_Corolla]

3. To be honest I am not aware of any problems between the Junior and senior associations, although thats not to say there may be some. The entry of new teams to the reserve league may create problems, ie, how would Delting feel if all their best juniors went to play for Mossbank in the B League having spent years coaching these players.

 

My own view is the Associations should be working to strengthen community clubs, who have teams at all age groups and invest time into coaching players.

 

 

3) Most clubs in the Shetland FA are as you state community clubs and have representation on both associations as a Club that has an adult and youth set-up we have noticed that there is a few areas where greater co-operation could be beneficial to all concerned. Delting FC representative had raised issue at a SFA monthly meeting with Mossbank FC fielding Delting under 18's in their team in the works league this season so this problem is apparent already.

 

These players are playing for Mossbank because Delting turned their backs on them. The boys who came to Mossbank from the 18s are here because they want regular first team football at a level which suits them. These are some talented players which Delting have at their disposal. It's up to Delting to offer them good terms next year; we arent going to deny any of them the chance to play in the A league. However they arent going to accept warming the bench for Delting B's all season when guys who are well past it and are only in the squad for sentimental value are getting a game.

 

However, Delting would rather see their established squad continue to grind out results rather than their youth team be bleeded into the first team set-up and become future Delting stars. It's Deltings fault.

[plaguestorm]

As a spectator I do look forward to this time of year, the Shetland AGM.

 

Once again the many Shetlink voices come out and dream up a million ways to make the league better and make football more enjoyable. There are options explored about setting up new competitions and creating new leagues. Relegation and promotion is explored. Numbers of substitutions permitted is also investigated.

 

Is it just me who can see the blatantly obvious??!! All of these ideas only delay the inevitable truth.

 

As a failed footballer I have a fair idea what the major problem with most players in Shetland is. They're not good enough!! The main reason Ross Moncrieff, Stuart Hay, Laurence Pearson and James Johnson run past most players isn't because the league set up is unfair. It isn't because your team wasn't allowed to use more subs. In fact it wasn't even because the grass wasn't being kept at a specific length. It mainly boils down to the fact that these players, and more like them, bother their ass to maintain a level of fitness which sees them stay in front of the rest!!

I will concede that certain teams in the League are better because they have a higher number of players with 'natural ability'. However, this is normally coupled with several fitter players than can be found in other teams. This is mainly due to structured training through the winter and footballers taking on some personal training as well. No just the 5-a-side training that some think will make them world beaters.

 

I ate too much and couldn't be arsed to go running so I gave up before it became embarassing. I can accept that laziness was my problem but I can also accept that it was nobody elses fault.

 

I know this is a thread for discussing Shetland Football and perhaps I should be making these points elsewhere but I do think it's becoming more laughable with every season.

 

Teams who aren't as good need to try harder through the winter and during the season.

Players need to take more interest in their own fitness and commitment to their clubs. i.e. Go to every game. Don't go on a stag day or birthday bus instead.

Most importantly accept the unfortunate truth that some players, and therefore teams, are better than others.

 

p.s. Having won the League again who in the Delting team is "well past it" Jay Corolla? Stuart Lavender or the McDonald boy?

 

p.p.s Once again I apologise cause there are some good points in this thread as well. The Highland Amateur Cup for example.

 

RANT OVER

[penfold]

Jeezo Plaugestorm I wouldna said yun was a rant? I've seen you rant before. Just deeply held ideas that you have spoken about on many occasions before if i recall correctly. Some of them I whole heartedly agree with.

 

The proposals I feel are to make a better league structure which would be to the benefit of all concerned not to make it easier for those who cant see the work needed to win or compete.

 

The rule on single team clubs in the SFA was to stop the A league withering away with just six teams in it was it not? Well like it or not in the future if the rule stands as it is now you may well be back to 6 or 7 A teams, what then demand that the reserve teams step up to the premier league?

 

Jay I wasn't commenting on the issues that Delting or Mossbank may have over players just replying to the fact that it was already an issue that had been spoken of.

[Boris]

Plagustorm, I completely agree with you on the fitness. I thought the fitness levels in the league were awful, and that also includes the top teams.

 

I also agree with your point about teams working harder. The problem is getting a group of players who are ambitious and willing to train hard to improve as individuals and a team. Unfortunatley not many teams have enough commited players to do this, and as soon as you step up training you are left with a half empty games hall or players threating to play in the works league or rival teams. The truth is many of the teams face an annual struggle to keep their team on the park.

 

I am still of the opinion that we need to aim for a Community Club model where clubs of a similar sized catchment area raise players from youth level. That is the only way to create the environment needed to change training habits and create competition and also avoid an annual procession of new teams forming only to collapse a couple of years later. It also means there is an incentive for clubs to get their act together because there is no excuse's (ie, at the moment can Yell really be expected to compete with Delting who have 5 times the population).

 

Others disagree and think we should be getting as many people as possible into playing football and encourage new team to form and enter the league. In my opinion this dilutes the standard further and creates problems at youth level where people spend years coaching players only for them to jump to another team when they reach 16 because they are not in the A team.

 

It's an interesting debate. What should be aplauded is at least people are interested enough to raise these important matters at AGM. It's easy to point out things that are not working but much harder to find consensus as how to change things.

 

 

 

 

PS. The comments regard subs is about reserve team football only. B Team managers have to give their players regular games or they will go to the works league, you also have to try and feed Un18s in to he side to help get them used to senior football. This was fairly easy to do when you were allowed five subs, it's not so easy with only three.

[Baxter]

i would argue thatthere should be 5 subs allowed all through shetland football this is because it gives the oppertunity for everybody to get a game and enjoy the football. I know from experience that it is a pain in the ase travelling all the way to Boddam or Whalsay just to warm the bench or even worse be linesman for the whole game!

[Frank]

As a spectator I do look forward to this time of year, the Shetland AGM.

 

Once again the many Shetlink voices come out and dream up a million ways to make the league better and make football more enjoyable. There are options explored about setting up new competitions and creating new leagues. Relegation and promotion is explored. Numbers of substitutions permitted is also investigated.

 

Is it just me who can see the blatantly obvious??!! All of these ideas only delay the inevitable truth.

 

As a failed footballer I have a fair idea what the major problem with most players in Shetland is. They're not good enough!! The main reason Ross Moncrieff, Stuart Hay, Laurence Pearson and James Johnson run past most players isn't because the league set up is unfair. It isn't because your team wasn't allowed to use more subs. In fact it wasn't even because the grass wasn't being kept at a specific length. It mainly boils down to the fact that these players, and more like them, bother their ass to maintain a level of fitness which sees them stay in front of the rest!!

I will concede that certain teams in the League are better because they have a higher number of players with 'natural ability'. However, this is normally coupled with several fitter players than can be found in other teams. This is mainly due to structured training through the winter and footballers taking on some personal training as well. No just the 5-a-side training that some think will make them world beaters.

 

I ate too much and couldn't be arsed to go running so I gave up before it became embarassing. I can accept that laziness was my problem but I can also accept that it was nobody elses fault.

 

I know this is a thread for discussing Shetland Football and perhaps I should be making these points elsewhere but I do think it's becoming more laughable with every season.

 

Teams who aren't as good need to try harder through the winter and during the season.

Players need to take more interest in their own fitness and commitment to their clubs. i.e. Go to every game. Don't go on a stag day or birthday bus instead.

Most importantly accept the unfortunate truth that some players, and therefore teams, are better than others.

 

p.s. Having won the League again who in the Delting team is "well past it" Jay Corolla? Stuart Lavender or the McDonald boy?

 

p.p.s Once again I apologise cause there are some good points in this thread as well. The Highland Amateur Cup for example.

 

RANT OVER

 

Nathan McDonald played for Mossbank FC last season plaugestorm! He only played in the games at the end of the season because Mossbank's season had already finished. Also i have to admit but Stuart Lavender did do well for the full 10 minutes he got on for Delting.

Lets Face it, the only reason Delting are going to blood in their youngsters is if theres a major injury crisis or there winning by atleast 5 goals. That what all the youngsters hate about Delting.

An Example of this was la few seasons Delting falsly promised first team football to Liam McGregor and Nathan Mcdonald to stop them from going to unst for a season. they did play the first games but as the season went on they found them selves out of the first team and on the bench for the B's! Now Liam left Delting and by all accounts has a farely good season at Unst by all accounts.

[Cletus]

Delting complaining about Mossbank? Laughable to say the least.

 

 

Surely this exposes the frailties and divide in quarters of the Delting camp if their youngsters would rather play for a Works League team rather than an established A league team.

 

 

Having spoke to a few Mossbank players, it glaringly obvious they are unhappy the way the A and B teams are run and are particuarly unhappy with one fundemental member of the Delting board, anyone connected with Mossbank or Delting will know who this is. The complaint has came little too late as they are few Delting U'18 players that will be playing for Mossbank next year.

 

 

 

Just on a sidenote, are they are reason why such youngsters should stay when there is such favouritism in the A team and unwillingness to drive youngsters through.

 

Who is telling me Neil Hay should be starting ahead of Brian Duncan some games?

[Pooks]

As a failed footballer I have a fair idea what the major problem with most players in Shetland is. They're not good enough!! The main reason Ross Moncrieff, Stuart Hay, Laurence Pearson and James Johnson run past most players isn't because the league set up is unfair. It isn't because your team wasn't allowed to use more subs. In fact it wasn't even because the grass wasn't being kept at a specific length. It mainly boils down to the fact that these players, and more like them, bother their ass to maintain a level of fitness which sees them stay in front of the rest!!

I will concede that certain teams in the League are better because they have a higher number of players with 'natural ability'.

 

As a failed. indeed, never really tried, footballer; I do wonder how many of these teams would do if they were constrained to a, say, 10 mile radius of where they live. If they had no choice but to play for their local football team. Would Delting still be the team it is today or would other teams have a better chance against them?

[penfold]

I am still of the opinion that we need to aim for a Community Club model where clubs of a similar sized catchment area raise players from youth level. That is the only way to create the environment needed to change training habits and create competition and also avoid an annual procession of new teams forming only to collapse a couple of years later. It also means there is an incentive for clubs to get their act together because there is no excuse's (ie, at the moment can Yell really be expected to compete with Delting who have 5 times the population).

 

It's an interesting debate. What should be aplauded is at least people are interested enough to raise these important matters at AGM. It's easy to point out things that are not working but much harder to find consensus as how to change things.

 

Community clubs are something that are alive in Shetland at the moment most clubs are based around geographic areas and particular communities. Some have in place a youth set-up that feeds into their A-team and B-team, but the reason that new teams start up is that there is no where for those that didn't make in to their A or B team to go so they set-up new teams.

 

I personally feel that if we try to change things a step at a time we can get to where we need to be. With an association that has two divisions with promotion and relegation, that allows the movement of teams on merit and ablility, an association that is accessable to those who wish to play football. Or we can stay the way we are and remain in denial and end back up with a "Premier" division with 6 teams in it and no way of increasing the number of teams or level of competition.

[Marshall]

Are Delting really complianing about Mossbank?

Sounds to me it's the other way round.

Did the same thing not happen to Thistle when they were the team in the 90's.

Alot of the young player left as they were not able to brake into the first team and then it hurt then latter when the old players retired?

It's hard to keep everyone happy it is about the squad and not just the 11 players on the park at one time.

You need to use alot of players in a season and you can't keep everyone happy.(example Kris Boyd)

Delting like Thistle before probably have 8 or 9 very good players that would play in any team up here and the Shetland team the rest is made up off good to average players.

As a young player it is very hard to brake into that sort off team you either go along and be part of the squad and take any opportunity that comes your way.

Or you go somewhere else for first team football.

You can't come straight out of junior football and into a team like Delting or 90's Thistle unless you are a very good player.

Some junior players are playing twice a week at that level as well as B team then want and expect to play every game for the A's.

A good manager should see this a talk to them about it.

Older established player that only play A team football twice a week then start to get dropped and feed up.

That's football

[Boris]

Community clubs are alive in some areas of Shetland, not all. In my opinion it was the decison to allow teams to enter the reserve league only that led us to the Premier League having 6 sides. It was better to be top of the reserve league than bottom of the A League.

 

Would Shetland be stronger if Ness United spilt up into Cunningsburgh, Southend and Sandwick all playing in a second division. Would they manage to maintain the excellent work going on at youth level in the area....I doubt it.

 

This scenario may not be an issue for Ness, but in other areas of Shetland it is a very real problem. For example Unst and Yell having a joint youth system but seperate senior sides. Would allowing these sides to enter a second division be as beneficial to Shetland football as having a joint community club playing in the top league.

 

Ness are a good example of an area getting beyond issues of identity and petty feuds to create a community club who are contributing to top level football. The indiviual identities are kept thanks to the Praish Cup. I feel Shetland is only big enough to have a certain number of A Teams, if we aim for too many we end up diluting the standard and this creates other problems (ie, senior teams in an area fighting over players from joint youth set ups).

 

I have seen the Orkney model being quoted however in my opinion the standard of football is much better in Shetland. If players can not get into the existing A Teams or Reserve teams you have to question commitment and to some extent ability. Perhaps the works league is the place for those players where they can enjoy games against other people who are playing more for fun than competition.

 

The one thing for certain is we are never likley to end up with a set up that pleases everyone.

[Cletus]

Are Delting really complianing about Mossbank?

Sounds to me it's the other way round.

 

 

 

What?

[Baxter]

For example Unst and Yell having a joint youth system but seperate senior sides. Would allowing these sides to enter a second division be as beneficial to Shetland football as having a joint community club playing in the top league.

 

the joint youth syste is a very complicated issue. There is no training between the 2 island teams and the players only ever play together on match days. In recent history this has still been reasonably successful due to there being some genuine quality around. But in recent times it has been very much Unst run and funded.

 

Plus as far as i am aware there is no under 14 northern rovers team at the moment and the under 16s is also very much in doubt. This is mainly due to the lack of someone willing to do it, as the current coaches have been doing it for a long time now and have done a wonderful job, feel that they can no longer commit to it as much.

 

as far as I am aware moving back into the 'B' league is not even an option and therefore is not being considered by Unst, who are willing to have another go at the A league. Although Unst took a few defeats last year, there were a few close games with teams such as delting and whalsay (with a weakened side), plus two wins over Ness and yell respectively and a good home win over scalloway.

[Dusty Rhodes]

I can see where you are coming from Penfold, a promotion and relegation sytem would work well.

just a couple of questions about it

 

1)if it was going to be set up how many teams would be in each division?

 

2)Also how would you select which teams start in the top league or the

2nd league when you set it up?

 

3) what would happen to the B teams? would they just stop and make updifferent teams?

[penfold]

The idea at the moment is to encourage teams to enter the association, any new team entering the association would be allowed to enter the reserve division. I thought a maximum of twelve teams in the reserve divsion, the premier division would remain the same as it is at the moment.

 

If the proposal is ratified at the AGM then promotion and relegation could start in the 2009 season. If you could encourage teams to enter then hopefully you could grow the association to a point where you could have two divisions of 8 and proper promotion and relegation say two up and two down, and also be able to hold a proper association cup including the teams from the two divisions then you would have a fit for purpose association that offered competitions that cover the spectrum of ability that is found Shetland.

 

The teams that still can and wish to have a reserve team can then have them and compete in a true reserve league.

 

Now some people on here believe that it cant work or it is pandering to teams or individuals who are not committed enough to training or their club, some of those points are valid, but I would counsel that these people and teams exist in all leagues and associations in Scotland, the difference being that most of those competitions are structured at least with two divisions where teams find their level in the structure based on their level of commitment or ability.

 

Not because the association demand that they play in a level above their ability so that the better teams do not end up in a truncated league of 6 where they get bored and stale playing each other three or four times in the league and lord knows more if they draw each other in the cup competitions.

 

Lets not get to a point where we're 6 or 7 teams in the premier league again with clubs leaving the association for good, as if that happens then there are no more clubs to force up, and as we all know usually by the time you notice something has gone wrong in football it takes years to put right. We were lucky this last time that there were 5 teams in the reserve league to move up to the premier league. If we stay the way we are and clubs drop out of the association over the next few years how are we going to put that right? to late by that point I think.

 

I am not saying its the right way to go or the only way to go, and if someone comes up with better solution to the issue then we as a club will look at it and support. We won't though suggest that clubs merge against there will or that they have to conform to a standard vision of what some believe a club should be.

 

Ness Utd may be some folks definition of a community club but you have no idea the work and knock-backs and false dawns that the club has gone through to get to where it is now, and in terms of adult competition in the SFA its has a long way to go, and we have found it has been better to be proactive in ideas to get the club there than reactive.

 

The structure or model of our club may not fit the needs of say Unst or Yell that is an issue that they need to get agree themselves, I don't think being preached at by folk on the outside of their clubs will bring it about though.