crofter Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 Public service? Think he'll get an MBE for it? Yip! 'Seal of approval' from HRH. Indeed. His fate is sealed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 In fact it could be argued that breeding an animal with the sole intent of slaughtering it at a time of your choosing, takes a far more hardened attitude than simply knocking off a random few in their natural habitat once in a while.Indeed so. Such an ethical line certainly seems to be the case when it comes to the slaughtering of humans. Society considers the "unavoidable" killing of civilians while hunting for oil supply to be less heinous than formally organised death camp "farms." The killing of Whales is something which I am 1000% against, ... Whales are intelligent mammals and deserve respect,...While I would prefer whales to be protected, I admit that this is entirely due to a "cute fluffy animal" response rather than because of any intelligence based criteria. Such arguments seem to be difficult to demonstrate logically. Germaine Greer once wrote a very astute article on exactly this problem. One of the key counter-examples which prove troublesome in attempts to draw arbitrary lines on "acceptable" animal consumption is the octopus. It is basically a mobile shellfish and as such is right at the bottom of the pecking order for veggies (human above monkey above dog above cow above chicken above fish above shellfish above plants). It is nevertheless far more intelligent than a cow. When it comes to food consumption hypocrisy rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crofter Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 It is nevertheless far more intelligent than a cow. Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Njugle Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 ^ Evidence would tend to suggest it. Octopuses show fairly advanced problem solving skills and are elsewhere rated as cleverer than cats. For anyone wanting to challenge their pre-conceptions about animal intelligence I'd recommend the recent National Geographic article, it was mind-boggling (even to a dolphin ) The stuff that was in it is too lengthy to mention here but it discusses a number of scientifically recorded incidences of animals (dogs, parrots, dolphins,crows etc.) displaying intelligence above that of a toddler. Including abstract thought, language, communication and problem solving. Those who view animals as mere automatons are now not just emotively wrong, but scientifically wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted December 7, 2008 Report Share Posted December 7, 2008 It is nevertheless far more intelligent than a cow. Really?There is, understandably, considerable debate just how smart they are, but it is generally agreed that they (alone) are too intelligent to be treated like other invertebrates from a legal viewpoint. Here is something from UK animal testing law: 1. (1) Subject to the provisions of this section, "a protected animal" for the purposes of this Act means any living vertebrate other than man and any invertebrate of the species Octopus vulgaris from the stage of its development when it becomes capable of independent feeding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifi Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 An argument not entirely without flaw though, remember the stushie over veal?!? I daresay that if a market existed for lamb at a similar stage of (im)maturity it would attract a similar outcry. When it comes down to the age of individual animals making the difference between acceptability and not, its a business on the edge.I know this is going a bit off-topic but, in reply, I thought the stushie over veal in the past mainly had to do with the conditions the calves were kept in. Ie, kept in the dark in crates etc etc to provide white meat. I believe that nowadays veal from this country is rosé and doesn't have the problems associated with the bad name veal got in the past. It's apparently a by-product of the dairy business and the male calves would still be slaughtered, being classed as unsuitable for being raised for beef. For many of us, the stigma of veal still lingers, although we're told that there's absolutely nothing wrong with organic UK veal. That, and the small amount produced, means that it's a minority sport. http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/the-ethics-of-eating-the-appeal-of-veal-414318.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabiaTerra Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 ^^^^^^ And instead of being eaten by humans, the male calves of dairy cows go for dog and cat food and the dairy farmer has lost an important part of his income. Hurray for animal rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifi Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Exactement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilslavaken Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 Wat du u people hav against seals? Yeah sure they eat fish, but humans eat nearly anything...So wat gives them less right to survive then us humans? Only asking..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradgate5 Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 from the news it's hard to see why it was done; not for food, or skins. I don't like it at all, though there must be some reason, at least to the alledged killer. Is it illegal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Wat du u people hav against seals? Yeah sure they eat fish, but humans eat nearly anything...So wat gives them less right to survive then us humans? Only asking..... Because we have evolved to the state where we can. We're far from perfect, but if a seal gets a disease it usually dies, whereas if you have a problem you can go to a doctor and get fixed. We are just higher in the food chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 JAStewart you say killing seals is bad??? try telling de uncle dat!!!!!!!!!!!!!What irony! I've only recently worked out just how amusing this is. Surely a nomination for "Funniest Shetlink post of the year"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 JAStewart you say killing seals is bad??? try telling de uncle dat!!!!!!!!!!!!! No need to make it personal. What my uncle does, or did doesn't mean anything: I'm not him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyumpi Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 from the news it's hard to see why it was done; not for food, or skins. I don't like it at all, though there must be some reason, at least to the alledged killer. Is it illegal? I don't think it's illegal to kill Grey seals in certain circumstances. It looks as if it is permitted under the Conservation of Seals Act http://www.uk-legislation.hmso.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1970/cukpga_19700030_en_1 with a few provisos. You can't just go round killing them for fun and there are some stipulations on how you cannot kill them but it seems that in protecting fish farming interests it is permissible "provided that at the time the seal was in the vicinity of such net or tackle."If the chap has actually been arrested and charged then the police must feel he was not complying with the above Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hump-de-bump Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 I agree with Lilslavaken. What gives people the right to kill animals that cause them no pain. I am sure that the "poor" fishing men of Shetland can afford other measures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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