Samantha Orobator

[Michael]

I may be very wrong, but if the boot had been on the other foot, and a foreign national had been lifted wandering around Shetland with 680g of Heroin on them, instead of a British national wandering round Laos someplace with 680g of Heroin on them. I suspect there would be a whole lot more calling for their head on a platter, and a whole lot less sympathy for them on this thread.

 

A little perspective here, 680g of Heroin, using the rule of thumb applied by our esteemed local constabulary in such matters, and notwithstanding errors in the local media and/or my old calculator, has a "street value" of "up to" £89,250, and is equal to in excess of 4500 hits.

 

We wouldn't be proposing to execute them though.

[Ghostrider]

^^ Neither is Laos. She'd closed the door on that threat all by herself, so why are we interfering, and why all the sympathy. Why is the UK taxpayer going to have to foot the bill so that she can have a standard of living better than many UK pensioners etc?

[shetlandpeat]

Tis not a great deal of heroin, when you think how much is produced..and consumed in a part of a city..

 

I also dont think there motives were just to kill....those who act as mules, they are mostly the vunerable.

 

The folk who should be judged are those who manufacture the drug and distribute it for cash.

 

You cannot demand the death penalty for every minor drug trafficer or mule.

 

How would you punnish folk who buy spirits for kids?

 

And what qualifies your choice of demand, what experience do most folks have. Very little with most. They rely on newspaper reports....

 

The attitude of those not caught in a the trap of poverty, bullying or mental illness is quite upsetting, especially as they drink themselves and smoke themselves into a early grave, where the product they use could have been produced by folk who are worked nearly as slaves, as in the tobacco industry...

 

The lack of an open mind and sympathy for others who were or not in a position to help themselves is one of discrimination and the basis of a class system, of which we complain..

[JAStewart]

But JAS she was carrying 1.5lb of smack hardly personal usage, so the authorities in Laos are trying to protect kids from evil bitches like her

 

That argument is fine - if they could prove she intended to sell it to kids.

 

Should a supermarket call the police every single time you or me buy some alcohol because we could sell/give it to children?

[Ghostrider]

^^ Its all relative. Compared to the annual crop its a sneeze, compared to the fact that the local sheriff considers less than 1% of the amount is enough to constitute that the possessor is a dealer, and send them down for 2 years, even when they claim 33-66% of it was for personal use, its a very substantial amount.

 

The only attitude problem I see is folk not taking full responsibility for their own actions, the UK has been a "no fault" society for far too long.

 

It fine and well to suppose a great deal, but the only things concerning the case that there is any evidence of in the public domain is that, for whatever reason, she decided to play outside the rules, then she decided for whatever reason to enter a country, where she either already knew they called for your head if they caught you doing what she was doing but went ahead anyway, or was too stupid/cocky to bother finding out beforehand.

 

Then when it all goes belly up, she starts whining that she doesn't like the rules in the country she's stuck in, and wants to come back to the UK because she likes our rules better. And, nation fo softies we've become, we are suckers for it, never mind what it costs the taxpayer.

 

As far as I'm concerned, if I decide to play outside the rules, I'm on my own, if it does down the pan half cocked, its down to me and only me to deal with the consequences and get myself out of the hole. To play outside some of the rules when you feel like it, yet expect protection from some of the other rules when you want them, but while you're still playing outside the first lot, is the ultimate in hypocrisy as far as I'm concerned.

 

Yes, fine, if she was threated/bullied/whatever in to doing what she did against her will, its a whole other ball game. But, until and unless there is at least an allegation of that, which as far as I'm aware there hasn't been, the available facts, that she went willingly, are all that is to pass judgement on.

[JAStewart]

never mind what it costs the taxpayer.

 

I have a bit of a problem with this argument. The Scottish Government subsidizes Shetland in ways - Why should Hamish McHaggis pay for that? What if you never left Shetland - should your council tax still contribute to paying for the Northlink? There are plenty of tax abuses in Britain.

 

The only attitude problem I see is folk not taking full responsibility for their own actions, the UK has been a "no fault" society for far too long.

Shouldn't you support the legalisation of drugs and privatized health care then? If you mess yourself up, its your fault and not Taxy MacPayer. I realise in this thread I have been pushing it but its not something I necessarily support, just playing devil's advocate a bit.

[KOYAANISQATSI]

4500 hits that would have been taken by personal choice. Now I'm not saying she's not due a bit of time but only by sticking to the laid down good drug/bad drug designation of the powers that be, who are more than happy to profit from the taxes of the death drugs they can control.

4500 hits wont cause much more damage than a lorry load of fine Scotch whisky and if it does, it's more likely harm to the individual taking and not so much the chance of others getting hurt by things like drunken violence, drunk driving etc. So she's no worse a human than a lorry driver moving loads of booze into our towns really.

I teach my kids to take care and avoid things that will cause them harm, be it going to the banks, doing drugs or crossing the road but have to leave Darwins rules of survival to have the final say at some point and hope for the best.

 

My Bairns wouldna have touched her smack anyway.

There's unlikely anyone going to shove them over the knab so good sense should see survival there.

Drunken drivers or those who drive at illegal and reckless speeds in built up areas however are not giving them any choice of picking their own destiny though, if they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time so I would say they are the greatest danger to the innocent out there and would be the ones who I would take the dimmest view of.

 

Folk scream about overpopulation while cheering their children off into foreign war zones all the while demanding we should all be wrapped up in cotton wool to protect us from ourselves and will see any mug caught with a bag of smack hung to insure it.

Funny old world.

 

I'm not promoting heroin use; I strongly advise against it. It has killed more than one friend of mine although still less than the booze has seen out.

My advice; take care out there and remember; smack disna solve ony o de problems but den needer dus alchohol.

[Ghostrider]

never mind what it costs the taxpayer.

 

I have a bit of a problem with this argument. The Scottish Government subsidizes Shetland in ways - Why should Hamish McHaggis pay for that? What if you never left Shetland - should your council tax still contribute to paying for the Northlink? There are plenty of tax abuses in Britain.

 

Agreed, so lets not add more to them. Tax abuses are a whole other argument in themselves that could easily spawn another thread, but long story short. While its bad enough that there are imbalances within the UK, at least the money stays within the nation and helps others within the nation.

 

What crosses a line, is when someone leaves the country, and does something elsewhere that would get them serious jail time if they'd done it here, we go and spend an immense amount dragging them back here, and supporting them, just because the bed they made for themselves elsewhere is a little too hard for their liking. Both here and there, they are a criminal by both our and their standards, who gave us the right to tell a soverign nation their sentences are wrong, and to drag one of ours back here for what we consider an appropriate sentence, especially when that person left here and went there to commit the crime.

 

How can we justify that spending on that person, when what they did is equally a crime here as it is where they were caught. So the sentences vary, such is the luck of the draw. Its only half a century since we ourselves were detaching heads of criminals, I don't think 2-3 generations of "enlightenment" is anywhere near long enough for us to justify trying to claim any moral high ground over those who still adhere to our former ways.

 

The only attitude problem I see is folk not taking full responsibility for their own actions, the UK has been a "no fault" society for far too long.

Shouldn't you support the legalisation of drugs and privatized health care then? If you mess yourself up, its your fault and not Taxy MacPayer. I realise in this thread I have been pushing it but its not something I necessarily support, just playing devil's advocate a bit.

 

I do. I've said as much concerning the former at least once, probably oftener on this site in the past.

[MJ]

The woman was on a four week holiday, Netherlands, Thailand, Laos, Netherlands.

 

If that's not suspect, then you've got to be pretty thick.

But, it took 9months before she got any legal representation or consular advice. She was locked up in one of the most notorious ALL FEMALE jail in south east Asia. It wasn't until the surprise of bringing her trial forward that any British representative bothered trying to contact her or find out why she hadn't been able to get ANY legal representation.

 

She was stupid, but no one deserves trial with out representation. I would like to think anyone guilty or not would warrant a visit from the consul within the 1st couple of weeks not 9months. I should imagine it's scary enough being involved with the British legal system for the 1st time but for your 1st offence to be in a foreign country, where you don't know the language or legal system.

 

I do feel sorry for her, I do believe she should serve a jail sentance (but not in Laos), and if her Aunt (the lady who brought her up) does not want to take care of the baby then it's best if it is adopted, because that girls head is going to be in no fit state when she is released.

[sheepshagger]

I have a bit of a problem with this argument. The Scottish Government subsidizes Shetland in ways -

 

quite simply rubbish

[shetlandpeat]

The woman was on a four week holiday, Netherlands, Thailand, Laos, Netherlands.

 

If that's not suspect, then you've got to be pretty thick..

 

I pity anyone from Holland doing a similar tour, tis like folk who go to Thailand only go for the sex industry...

 

 

 

She was locked up in one of the most notorious ALL FEMALE jail in south east Asia.

 

.

 

So, sperm donated from a male prisoner???

 

There are folks who are under alot of pressure to do such things, tis normally threats to families in poorer places or the ilegal transport of folk that needs to be paid for...

 

I dont think she may have been thinking of the result of making opiates available in another country..

 

You could put it that in a successful smuggle, opiates are made available and folk would do less desperate thinks to get it if it was more readily available as mentioned by JAStewart. But this part of the debate moves us over to another string...

[sheepshagger]

lets just hope there's no smacked up wasters drivin by you as your laying oot cones today SP

[JustMe]

MJ wrote

The woman was on a four week holiday, Netherlands, Thailand, Laos, Netherlands.

 

If that's not suspect, then you've got to be pretty thick.

Why suspect?. Flights from Holland can be considerably cheaper than flights from the UK. Good enough reason to travel that route.

[sheepshagger]

Netherlands, Thailand, Laos, Netherlands.

 

you missed out Oz.

I say this scum bucket knew exactly what she was doing and did it willingly for the free holiday.

And for your information drugs are a hell of a lot dearer in Oz than Shetland so ghosty's estimate of £90 grand is a tad light

[JAStewart]

I say this scum bucket knew exactly what she was doing and did it willingly for the free holiday.

 

Firstly, arguing with that is pointless, because Laos only has an HDI of 0.608 - its not the best place in the world for human standards. If she was tried in Laos, there is a good chance the trial mightn't have been exactly considerate.

 

Also as someone who is 21, I'm often told that I haven't lived, don't know how things work etc. Yet you have no problem thinking a 20 year old girl, essentially, was fully responsible and aware of her actions because you say it is?

 

I think it is really easy to not have any sympathy for Ms Orobator in this situation, but it is a situation which needs to be carefully examined.

 

I have enjoyed the right-wing comments on this story of how she should not have been sent back to Britain - while in the same breath saying that "yun immigrants" need to be deported if they commit a crime.