Care Home Charges

[paulb]

[*** Mod edit - title shortened ***]

 

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2010/01/21/care-home-residents-face-big-rise-in-fees-after-trustees-end-support

 

thats going to hurt a fair few people.

we had to get my father in law into a nursing home at the end of last year and we were quoted between 490-600 depending on the level of care. how can £1800 be justified. when the trust was covering the excess bringing the level down to the average it did not matter so much about the cost of care up here now it does.

 

there needs to be a very close examination of the reason that the care is between twice and three times the cost of the same service south.

 

it could be that self funding residents may be forced off island. it could work out a lot cheaper.

maybe this service needs to be take out of council control which would then get rid of council pay rates and terms and conditions. an unskilled/semiskilled carer in the care centres is getting a lot more than a simular post in the health board.

 

senior care worker in the nhs £15,190 -£18,157

council care worker £20,876 to £24,235

i wonder why the nhs finds it hard to find staff at times.

[JohanofNess]

maybe this service needs to be take out of council control which would then get rid of council pay rates and terms and conditions. an unskilled/semiskilled carer in the care centres is getting a lot more than a simular post in the health board.

 

senior care worker in the nhs £15,190 -£18,157

council care worker £20,876 to £24,235

i wonder why the nhs finds it hard to find staff at times.

 

There is a fair difference in pay there for sure but how do you convince existing staff to take a 28% pay drop?.

[paulb]

no idea.

maybe different terms and conditions for new posts.

the post is not really about staff wages but it is the biggest cost.

some self funders would be scared of going into a centre if they were expected to pay the full bill.

 

the centres are excellent. this is only about the costs of the service not what they do.

[snow]

What I dont understand is why a residential placement (in my sons case) cost £1.600 per week and when I brought him home because of neglect I was given ( by the Government ) £29 per week and I give him a higher standard of care at home..

 

The balance is all wrong for those who could do the care at home there is little or no suppoer and what you can get you have to wait months for and justify the need for it...

 

I visited Nordalea on many occasions and the place is lovely and run to a very high standard and I think the staff are not overpaid hte problem i see is the government guidlines...

 

How can they justfy the weekly cost of keeping someone in a residential care placement regardless of whether it is for the Elderly or Special Needs when the cost of home care is set at such a ridiculously low level ..

 

I do understand there are running costs but is seems to me that yet again they are preying on the most vulnerable people in our society.

What ever happened to the " Cradle to the Grave " care that the Government promised?

 

Our elderly have worked hard all their lives and should be able to expect a standard of care that they are entitled to given the fact that they have through their taxes contibuted to the health care of the rest of us for years..They should not have to worry about how they pay fr this and if they have to be placed back into the community just how exactly is that going to reduce costs? Increase deaths YES increase deprivatiion Yes as there are little or no outreach services at present the extra burden of this would fall on agencies that cant cope at the moment EG Occupational Therapy have a waiting list of over a year....

 

I thought the Charitable Trust was supposed to be there to help the vurnerable of Shetland....

 

They can do this at the same time as writing of thousands that is owed in debts ..again I say the balancee is all wrong

 

Rant Over

[judgeknott]

I guess that people who don't have much money will still get all this for free?

[paulb]

in full agreement snow. thats what i thouht the trust was for.

 

but if they are paying out £1400 a week to cover the cost of a care place in unst that must be making a big dent in the funds. in a hospital its generally calculated that a bed space is costed at about £200 a day so £1400 a week. there can be no reason that a care centre should be charging more than this.

 

Four principal care home cost categories are: staffing; repairs and maintenance; other current costs; and capital costs (including investors’ and operators’ returns).

For the 2008/09 financial year, fair market fees for operating a modern, efficient care home outside London were £665 per week for nursing care (all categories of older people), £538 for the personal care of frail older people, and £566 for those with dementia. Costs were higher in more affluent parts of England and in London.

The study suggests:

Basing ‘spot’ purchase fees on a benchmark rate of 12 per cent yearly return on capital, reflecting investors’ perception of care homes as a moderately risky business activity.

A ‘good’ or ‘excellent’ rating for a home as a prerequisite for these ‘fair market fee’ levels.

Using a ‘capital cost adjustment factor’, proportional to the degree to which a home/room falls short of national minimum physical environment standards. This would lead to a maximum weekly difference of £74–£76 between ‘ceiling’ and ‘floor’ rates.

[paulb]

I guess that people who don't have much money will still get all this for free?

in theory yes. but they take your home and most of your pension/benefits leaving a very small amount for pocket money. if they have a partner the partner loses half the pension. i may not have that quite right. the calculations are complicated.

[snow]

The person does lose all their benefits over and above the charge for placement and gets the sum of £21 back to cover all their needs as in toiletries clothes and other essentials...

 

How long do you think it takes to save up for a warm winter coat at these amounts?

[Guest Anonymous]

the govt have never been very honest at all, now theres two parliaments to pay for, and any spare cash been dished out to thier tory buddies at the banks, wouldnt hold me breath for any subsidy on anything

[judgeknott]

But surely only people who are well off will be affected. e.g. home-owners and people with savings etc. People like me with with b@@@@@ all will get the same high level of care for absolutely free! thats socialism.

[mucklejo]

maybe pensioners should be treated as well as drug users. I personally know someone who is getting over £200 a week on benefits because they chose to start taking heroin. If his money and all the others was cut, maybe they could use that to help pay for our carehomes. It's a disgrace and it would probably be cheaper for these old folk to hire a couple of careworkers to look after them in their own home.

[joenorth]

Judgeknott, you're absolutely right, and this is the point that often gets missed. A person residing in a care centre has all of their material needs met there, and met very well in the majority of cases. Why does such a person need to maintain a large bank balance? Get this straight -we're simply talking about protecting the inheritance of private individuals. Why should the taxpayer do this? I think my tax dollar, and local charitable funds, can be spent in more meaningful ways than ensuring somebody inherits a large sum of money. The care centres in Shetland do not provide nursing care, so the old NHS adage "from the cradle to the grave" hardly applies.

 

Social attitudes have changed in recent decades, and we expect older members of our families (who don't have complex medical or nursing needs) to be looked after for us, instead of doing it ourselves. Why shouldn't well-off families pay for this?

[Styumpie]

I think the most of the cash gets swallowed up into the administration/management black hole, Follow the money. Likewise the rest of the public service here in the isles.

[paulb]

a small house and 16k in savings is not well off.

at the rates charged the person would use up there home within 2-3 years,

 

clearly it would be ideal if the person could remain in the family and be cared for at home. however this is not always the best for the resident. if a person lives by themselves they can get a maximum of 4 visits a day. imagine what could go wrong when they are by themselves.

 

there are not enough care places. this results in bed blocking at the hospital. in the rest of the country the social services would be fined per person.

 

as there is very little proper nursing home provision that would need expanding. these care demands have to be met. in the past the hospital could cover for any short fall in social care . there now is not the beds or staff to deal with them.

 

an option would be to have a not for profit company set up to run them and to pay standard levels of wages fr the staff.

 

i really can't see any justification for a persons care to cost three times more here than in most of the uk.

[joenorth]

Revenue (staffing) costs for community care are huge, and are bound to increase as the population gets older and more staff are required. Paul B's point has some validity - you can get a job as an SIC care worker (not necessarily with any relevant qualifications, often with an undertaking that you'll do an SVQ in the future) and earn similar money to a fully -qualified NHS Registered Nurse (who will always have done a minimum of three years university study, and often considerably more). However, I believe that this is more a comment on the age-old poor treatment of nurses, who should be paid more.

 

I reckon that SIC service managers still find it difficult to recruit to these relatively well-paid posts, so they're between a rock and a hard place.

I'd also argue that a well-paid, job-satisfied care worker might be a better person to look after your granny than someone who doesn't give a stuff because they're being paid peanuts.

 

The SIC community care team is not particularly top-heavy in terms of managers and administrators, especially if compared to the NHS. I also know for a fact that these people work very hard indeed for their crusts!