Care Home Charges

[MitzyMu]

Sorry to burst your bubble Judgeknot but nobody gets anything for "free " these days.

Those who are in care homes who have no assets and little money, have every penny taken fom them, including state pension towards the cost of their care with only pocket money, £21 per week , given back. therefore it is hard residents to replace clothes (including underwear) shoes, slippers etc. without family members and/or friends helping out.

Even being in hospital for 8 weeks plus any benefit or pension books have to be handed in to cover expenses.

I can see both side of the fence, as a former Care Manager and carer for aged parents even I cannot see the sense in the Charitable Trust withdrawing subsidies when the original plan for the "Oil Money " was for the benefit of all Shetland residents .

Luckily my parents are now deceased, my Mum only last year, but even I as a disabled pensioner would be hard pressed to do as has been done in the past if Mum was still in care. But then our family would go without to make sure that the extras ( cards / gifts etc) were covered. I think that a little more thought should be applied before threatening vunerable folk.

[unlinkedstudent]

^^Well said Mitzy.

[joenorth]

Hold on - doesn't the SIC's own literature say "the first £13, 750 of a resident's capital will be ignored when working out how much he/she should pay towards residential care". How is this taking everything away from care home residents? Let me assure you, we are very well off in terms of social care in Shetland.

 

Fact - as a care home service user in Shetland you will have all your material needs completely fulfilled for free, and still maintain £13, 750 in your bank account which the SIC can't touch, and is yours to dispose of as you see fit.

 

Question - if all your material needs are met by the state, do you personally really need any more than £13, 750 in capital as "pocket money"? This is a generous deal to my mind.

 

I've worked in care homes and hospitals in this country and overseas, at hands-on and management levels for many years and I know how well off we are in Shetland.

To be sure, there are flaws in the model of social care service provision we possess. The funding structure isn't one of them, however.

 

Please accept the truth - care centre residents in Shetland are far from being financially victimised. How many Shetlinkers reading this thread have their daily lives paid for by someone else, and have a personal nest egg of over thirteen grand to spend at their leisure?

[joenorth]

P.S I know I don't spend twenty quid a week, every week, on clothes and footwear, and I don't think most care home service users do either. This sum is certainly adequate for the purpose (unless your older relative is a slave to fashion and can't wear the same thing twice....)!

[paulb]

again your missing the point. the trusts payments only bring down the amount the person pays to that of the average in the uk. no one says that someone should get something for nothing.

 

by what you say the resident would be expected to use the few savings to cover there living costs. you forget that the elderly are allowed to have dignity too. your also forgetting that the savings have to pay for the burial lots of elderly folks worry about it. imagine having to live off 20 quid a week after working all your life. how dignified it would be for them having not enough money for any treats that they may fancy and being inable to treat or buy family gifts.

[JustMe]

P.S I know I don't spend twenty quid a week, every week, on clothes and footwear, and I don't think most care home service users do either. This sum is certainly adequate for the purpose (unless your older relative is a slave to fashion and can't wear the same thing twice....)!

Maybe you do not spend twenty quid a week on clothes and footwear but I am sure there must be some people in care homes who smoke or drink and twenty quid will not go far to buy either. And if anyone says that people in care homes are not allowed to drink or smoke I am going to yell "discrimination" and "violation of old peoples rights.

[Para Handy]

^^ It isn't as simple as that. In my case, I knew that I would never have an inheritance from either parent. Not only that, I left home years ago rather than be unemployed. As for people looking after their elderly relatives; again, it is not that simple. Gone are the days when many women stay at home - in many instances, both man and wife have to go out to earn a crust in order to make ends meet.

 

What about those with no offspring?

 

Perhaps there is something to be said for those countries with higher taxation but better care systems.

 

Well said MitzyMu

It’s very easy to forget that people of a certain age (born well before 1960s) Where fornication and drug use was the thing. People were brought up with a sense of shame. They save up for something

Had savings in a bank. They paid there rent or mortgage first. And did not run it up on Credit Cards

Or Bounced Checks

 

But now 2 minutes of the Jeremy Kyle show. Shows just how far the human race has sunk down the evolutionary scale and expect that the government will pay for it. So they just spend there money on drink and drugs and if they cant get it that way they just steal it from someone who had saved up the money for a TV or I-pod ect.

And now when put into care and told to sell there house while other get care on the tax payers expense

So! if it is meant to be free it should be free for all. Or at least free for anyone at the state pension age

And paid there national insurance

[joenorth]

Paul, I'm sorry if my points weren't sufficiently clear. I'll say it again- you can have up to £13, 750 pounds to use as you desire, and still receive free care as a care home service user. These "few savings" are entirely yours, and will not go towards your living costs.

 

As a professional working in the area, and with specialist qualifications in the area, I'll choose to disregard your comment about "forgetting old peoples' dignity" - I'm sure you didn't mean to be patronising. I can assure you this is one aspect of the care experience I never forget! I strongly feel that griping about how much your older relative pays as a care home resident (when their care is first-rate) is much more undignified! I have been personally involved in situations where it has been obvious families would rather keep their older relatives in a totally unsuitable (but free) hospital bed, than have them discharged to a care home where their quality of life would be hugely better (but might have to be paid for, if the person has over £13, 750). That families can think like this makes me very angry!

 

I'll wager that there aren't that many people in Shetland care centres who have absolutely no savings, and, as the the Shetland Times disclosed last Friday,there are twenty-odd people who are eligible to pay the full whack (this means possessing capital or assets over the value of £22, 500).

Most people will have assets or funds somewhere between the two values.

Of course, some service users have a fag and a dram, and rightly so. Most of these people can afford to do this, I'm sure. Granted, maybe the "pocket money" bar should be set a little higher. Nevertheless, I think that if you are a flat broke service user (and I've met very few of these), only having twenty pounds a week to spend on yourself is a small price to pay for not having to pay for your care.

 

Also: - NHS equals national insurance payments for medical/nursing care

- local authority (such as the SIC) equals free personal care in

Scotland funded by the taxpayer.

 

Care centre residents pay for what are called "hotel costs", i.e. the price of food and accommodation. In England, people in care homes pay for both personal care costs and hotel costs, so we really shouldn't moan.

 

Care centres in Shetland do not provide in-house nursing care, and are in no sense "nursing homes". They provide social care. If residents require nursing or medical care, they will be seen by visiting professionals (as in their original homes), or be admitted to hospital. Therefore, it can be argued with some conviction that the "free for all" ethos of the NHS is not relevant in the Shetland care centre context.

 

By way of a last word on the subject; literary evidence suggests that, if your older relative requires 24-hour social care (especially if they have a condition such as dementia), it is likely to be more expensive to look after them in their own homes than in a dedicated facility.

 

We should be grateful that we enjoy this level of social care provision for our older family members in Shetland. We should also pray that similar systems are in place when we come to need them (and at the rate our population is ageing, that hope is by no means certain)!

 

I've enjoyed discussing this topic, but I think when points are being repeated it's time to think about something else.

 

Cheers!

[Ghostrider]

Each to their own by all means, but reading though all this just convinces me even more of what I've always believed, live recklessly, die quickly and die young enough so as not have to put up with all the hassles and palaver that accompanies old age.

[paulb]

joenorth of course i was not trying to patronize you.

 

we are paying full care cost for my father in law in england at about £26.000 a year. i just don't see why a care centre place in shetland should cost £67,000. the same standards of facilities are required and the english ones are required to make a profit and service the buildings and associated cost. shetland care centres don't. so please tell us why there is such a difference.

even with full support for those who have to pay the fees they are paying £25,000. so im sorry the rich old folks up here are not getting special treatment. to expect some one to pay a highly inflated charge is unfair. that was the reason that the trust payed the difference.

[joenorth]

Paul, I know I said I wouldn't contribute to this topic again, but I'll do so to highlight what I think are some relevant facts.

 

Only 17% of care homes in the UK are run by the public sector. The majority of the remainder (69%) are run for profit.

These profit making ventures are exactly that; run primarily with profit first in mind, not the wellbeing of residents or staff. This being so, most staff in these care homes are on minimum wage. As revenue (staffing) costs are the biggest single drain on these budgets, you can see how paying poor wages to staff keeps costs down greatly. I quote from an article in the Times, written by a lady who was unhappy with her husband's care in such a for-profit establishment; "By not being able to pay good wages, care homes are unable to attract the right sort of people to a role that requires emotional intelligence, unsocial hours and undignified tasks". Would you want such workers to look after your father-in-law?

 

We don't suffer from these issues in Shetland, as our social care workers get a decent wage and working conditions. While you may think that it's unfair that people in Shetland might have to pay more than people on the mainland to stay in our care centres, I think that it's unfair that thousands of workers (mainly women) are paid peanuts nation-wide so that care home proprietors can make money by the bucketload, and run their care homes to the lowest minimum standards.

 

By the way, you're getting a good deal. The average cost of a single care home room in the UK is £35, 100 a year. How much do the care workers in your father-in-law's care home earn?

 

If you'd like to learn more about the inequities inherent in long-term care in the UK, as well as the historical background to this, can I recommend "NHS Plc: The Privatisation of our Health Care," by Professor Allyson Pollock. I think the Shetland library has a copy.

 

Having worked in private care homes outside Shetland, and care homes in Shetland, I know through experience that, on the whole, the local care homes provide a better experience for residents and staff. Meeting the basic standards of the industry regulators is no guarantee of quality care.

 

That's it - I promise I'll keep my trap shut from now on!

[jasper33]

At the end of the day they are going to do what they want, and they are not going to give a crap what we think is right or wrong.

 

I will enjoy watching my children spend the money now, and help them in anyway i can before god forbid i get stuck in a care home.

 

live life

[paulb]

joenorth.

 

I'm not wanting the sic staff to be paid minimum wage but then I'm not over impressed that your wages are higher than the similar post in the nhs. band two and 3 are not minimum wage.

 

we searched for good nursing home specializing in dementia care and the average was between about 5-6 hundred. yes they make a profit but they are rated as 4 star so there service is pretty good.

 

yes there are lots of issues with private care. but that why the standards agency is there. there are good ones and crap ones.

 

as you say scotland is better at supporting sick elderly ans that is something to be proud of. shetland even more so. but when they start cutting this support while throwing cash at less worth while projects. that's when i get annoyed.

 

again just to make it clear I'm not anti your pay or conditions . i just oppose the removal of the equalizer.

 

please don't give up on this thread.

[paulb]

At the end of the day they are going to do what they want, and they are not going to give a crap what we think is right or wrong.

 

I will enjoy watching my children spend the money now, and help them in anyway i can before god forbid i get stuck in a care home.

 

live life

 

thats the point they are the trusties of our money. if they don't listern to us then they have breached that trust.

[shetlandpeat]

At the end of the day they are going to do what they want, and they are not going to give a crap what we think is right or wrong.

 

I will enjoy watching my children spend the money now, and help them in anyway i can before god forbid i get stuck in a care home.

 

live life

 

How much would it cost the tax purse if we all did this, sadly, it is getting to a point where parents are gifting huge sums to their kids, the criteria is the parent has to stay alive for 7 years after the gift or the tax man will come knocking.

 

And Ghost, I did what you said, but still alive, now my age is compelling me to try for longer. And I feel that it is possible, but to enjoy the latter years, which the will to live has been rejuvinated, needs paying for, so, perhaps we should not worry, sign a DNR form at the hospital and see stuff, not sit around and vegitate b4 we need too..

 

I have no idea where this attitude came from, as I was quite reckless when I was younger, even up to a few years ago, but hey means I got more to do...

 

imo