Independent Scotland in the EU?

[shetlandpeat]

Yup, that is why we have fuel poverty. Greed will not address this, again, a simplistic view. The fact is, Shetland will never get your 200 miles, never. If it does happen, the Icelandic fisher folk will steam in and take the fish home. Bribing folk is not the way to look after them. Are you going to employ the A-Team as well?

Mysterious, or just hidden? Already looking at syphoning off public money to line the pockets of those who already have. Did not take long.

Edited September 3, 2014 by shetlandpeat

[Ghostrider]

Yup, that is why we have fuel poverty. Greed will not address this, again, a simplistic view. The fact is, Shetland will never get your 200 miles, never. If it does happen, the Icelandic fisher folk will steam in and take the fish home. Bribing folk is not the way to look after them. Are you going to employ the A-Team as well?

Mysterious, or just hidden? Already looking at syphoning off public money to line the pockets of those who already have. Did not take long.

 

Ohhhhhh..... That lot shows where your head is, not mine!

 

Since when did capitalism have anything to do with theft, bribery and fraud? Sounds more like a regular day in a Communist state to me.

[Gorgonzola Butt-cheese]

Independent Scotland in the EU  ?  That's a very fine oxymoron !!

Shetland Peat , you clearly dont understand the fishing industry , verbal skitter to put it mildly

 

It's a good laugh seeing you shot down in flames by ghostrider , but keep at it old chap .

 

 If the yes campaign had been about gaining a status similar to Iceland I would have voted yes.

 

People with the initiative to set up private businesses and the people in  private sector employment is what keeps the public sector alive .

 

[Scorrie]

'Nationalise' the fishing fleet?

 

Yup, sound like good old fashioned 1970's leftism rearing its ugly head again. Let private industry do all the graft, then kick their office door down and take their money to help keep afloat an idealistic ship of fools.

 

And I thought all the political dinosaurs had died out.

 

You didn't work at British Leyland in the 70's, did you, SP? 

[shetlandpeat]

Call it what you will, the issue is still there.

 

The YouGov survey on nationalisation shows that accross the political spectrum, folk want services to remain, or return to public ownership. If you want to continue to live in the past, and so far in the past, then you will be considered the dinosaurs.

 

How will you have an independant Shetland if you are going to let Serco run it? Serco Islands Council?

 

We are experiencing the effects of private companies entering the NHS. This will be coming to a shore near you. It is also the giving of public wealth to private companies who will bank it offshore, away from Shetland, private companies will also drive down the wage of those not in control. You only have to see the reports of what is going on around the country.

 

No one has been shot down, and never will with those comparisons, as we know, Communisum ain't really that popular, however, it still is a good word to use to try to rubbish social inclusion. And typically expected in the argument against.

 

From the figures obtained from SIC, it appears the fishing industy makes about £7500 per head of population but employs a minimal land based number of staff in comparison. Where as SIC are spending less than that, by at least a third yet employ far more. In general, more than 50% of what the council pays its staff, goes back into the community.

Edited September 4, 2014 by shetlandpeat

[shetlandpeat]

 

There is an alternative view on Scotland joining the EU.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28197298

 

 

Prof Douglas-Scott is professor of European law and human rights at Oxford, and has written a book on EU constitutional law.

She said: "Despite assertions to the contrary from UK lawyers, EU lawyers and EU officials, any future independent Scotland's EU membership should be assured, and its transition from EU membership (as a) part of the UK, to EU membership (as an) independent Scotland relatively smooth and straightforward."

Proceeding by way of Article 48, as opposed to using Article 49, which would require a full Accession Treaty, would avoid the risk that a newly independent Scotland would be "cast into the wilderness", with its ties with the EU cut on the date of independence, she said.

She continued: "This would be a form of internal enlargement for the EU, and in this way, Scotland's uninterrupted membership of the EU could be preserved."

 

That would be reassuring.

[Ghostrider]

The YouGov survey on nationalisation shows that accross the political spectrum, folk want services to remain, or return to public ownership. If you want to continue to live in the past, and so far in the past, then you will be considered the dinosaurs.

 

A survey of whom? The U.K. Scotland, Shetland?

 

I very much doubt it was the latter, and that is what we're talking about. Scotland very likely would show a majority for nationalisation, being the Socialist bunch they are they would be very likely to adhere to such a fundamental principle of Socialism. But that ain't Shetland.

 

A "YouGov" survery, or most surveys for that matter, aren't exactly noted for their representativeness either.

 

How will you have an independant Shetland if you are going to let Serco run it? Serco Islands Council?

 

WTF did you pull them from, what does anything have to do with Serco?

 

We are experiencing the effects of private companies entering the NHS. This will be coming to a shore near you. It is also the giving of public wealth to private companies who will bank it offshore, away from Shetland, private companies will also drive down the wage of those not in control. You only have to see the reports of what is going on around the country.

 

I have no problem with that. The NHS has been in "public" hands for closing in on 70 years, and while it never was perfect its been going from bad to worse in the last 35 than those before, costing more and more yet providing less and less. The private sector really could do no worse.

I can see no reason why an appropriate mix of regulation, public safety net and private enterprise couldn't provide a much superior service at the same cost, or the same service at lower cost.

 

What's the difference between giving wealth to a private company that we'll never see again, and giving it to the Government and the same thing happening? "Public Wealth" is about the biggest misnomer you could use anyway, there is no such thing. There is only wealth that the Government and those who have their backing have maneuvered themselves in to a position of being able to extract whatever wealth from the population they see fit, regardless of how the population feels about it.

 

In any case, its arguable that a private commercial venture has every right to put their profits, which they have earned, not been given, wherever they so please. Such ventures, who do choose to place there profits offshore, can only do so if they make any, and they can only do that if they're given the trade to generate them in the first place.

 

If folk don't like how any commercial venture behaves, don't give them your trade, it really is that simple.

 

Private enterprise is nothing new within the NHS anyway, its been there for decades, even in the boondocks up here on the rock, or have you missed that one? As far as it has gone so far, it seems to work reasonably well, at least when compared to what it replaced, so why wouldn't the same happen if other NHS services were opened up to it?

 

.....as we know, Communisum ain't really that popular, however, it still is a good word to use to try to rubbish social inclusion. And typically expected in the argument against.

 

On the contrary, there's nothing particularly unpopular about the basic core principles of Communism, in fact they're quite desirable and honourable. They are simply unmanageable and wholly impractical to make workable on anything unless a very small scale, so have never been attempted on a national level anywhere. The world of course has seen a number of attempts at what is popularly termed "Communism", the vast majority of which have failed spectacularly due largely to both the regimes and players concerned cherry picking the least desirable to the population aspects of Communism, and combining them with the ugliest excesses of human nature. Which is where most of "Communism's" bad press and unpopularity stems from.

 

Socialism is simply a watered down version of Communism dressed up as something different with a more acceptable name, which works up to a point, but it suffers from the same negatives as all other forms of "Communism" if left to run on unchecked.

 

Socialist "social inclusion" is no better than any other type of "social inclusion", it only works if you check the right boxes and get with the program. Not everybody, in fact a hell of a lot of people have no desire to be one of the clones.

 

From the figures obtained from SIC, it appears the fishing industy makes about £7500 per head of population but employs a minimal land based number of staff in comparison. Where as SIC are spending less than that, by at least a third yet employ far more. In general, more than 50% of what the council pays its staff, goes back into the community.

 

The guys at the harbours, Catch, the Malakoff, L&M, Kinetics, the market, LHD, buyers, agents, trucking companies to name just a few, I'm sure will be delighted to be described as "minimal" within the fishing industry locally. Just don't be surprised if none of them offer to buy you a pint next you're up.

 

If the council were to evict all the paper shuffling, seat-polishing, non-job salaries they pay, it wouldn't surprise me if their staff reduced by one third - then 100% of the Council Tax they rob off us to pay part of those salaries would stay in Shetland.

 

As for 50% of SIC salaries being spent within Shetland, maybe so, or maybe not. However all of that 50%, if indeed that is the figure, doesn't stay in Shetland, given that the vast majority purchases within Shetland are imported in the first place. Then there's the tax on the additional transaction which heads out the Sooth Mooth and in to Government coffers, definitely never to be seen again.

[Who Knows]

It is an undisputed fact that if Scotland votes yes the UK debt legally remains with the rUK in its entirely as confirmed by the Treasury at the beginning of this year.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270643/uk_debt_and_the_Scotland_independence_referendum.pdf

 

This was reconfirmed on Monday by the chief of the treasurySir Nick Macpherson to Westminster parliamentary committee.

 

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tlJ3yg4EbQw

 

With due respect Sufferof1crankymofo you are being highly economical with the truth in claiming Scotland will default on the debt when you already know this not to be the case as you have read the post on this issue in currency union discussion with the same official statement from the UK Government"

 

United Nations guide on the break of nations states were on country is not assuming to be the continuing state with 100% of the assets, liabilities and obligation to international treaties is that assets and liabilities should be shared upon the same basis.

 

The official position of the Yes campaign is to share the assets and liabilities of the UK.

 

http://news.scotland.gov.uk/imagelibrary/downloadmedia.ashx?MediaDetailsID=1767&SizeId=-1

 

As part of the required discussions following a yes vote how Scotland contributes to the continuing part of the UK to assist them in paying that debt interest is a separate discussion.

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

But Scotland would no longer be part of the UK so isn't that argument flawed?  Other reports have it that if Westminster say no to a currency union, membership of the EMU wouldn't happen as Scotland would need to sort out its own currency and if they walked away from their share of UK debt, that would hinder membership as debts must be honoured.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28197298

 

 

Don't try and make out I'm claiming something when I'm not.

[Scorrie]

SP.

 

You said: 

 

"Now, nationalise the fishing fleet, you may be on to something, as we know, the fishing industry in Shetland brings in a heafty sum, into private hands."

 

 

And then  in response to my criticism of your belief that the fishing industry should be nationalised you said:

 

"The YouGov survey on nationalisation shows that accross the political spectrum, folk want services to remain, or return to public ownership. If you want to continue to live in the past, and so far in the past, then you will be considered the dinosaurs."

 

Notice the problem SP? You conveniently did a bodyswerve on your original comment and tried to make out your original comment was about public services, not private enterprise.

 

Might work down at the local Flying Picket and Scab-bashers Social Club (half price membership to anyone with an Arthur Scargill tattoo) in Bamber Bridge, SP, but I'm afraid most folk up here aren't as gullible and brainwashed as Lancashire fowk. 

[shetlandpeat]

 

But Scotland would no longer be part of the UK so isn't that argument flawed?  Other reports have it that if Westminster say no to a currency union, membership of the EMU wouldn't happen as Scotland would need to sort out its own currency and if they walked away from their share of UK debt, that would hinder membership as debts must be honoured.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28197298

 

 

Don't try and make out I'm claiming something when I'm not.

 

You really are quite predictable...

 

Anyhow, you soon will be able to continue to vote south if there  is a yes vote.

 

As for the Scorrie interjection, WTF. Body swerve? You really are graduating from the same school as others.

 

As everyone seems to think, who are anal, the fishing fleet will be the saviour of the Northern Ises (guess who I am pointing that at) and will sustain the Northern most Isles of the new Scotland. It will not, if you compare the numbers employed by the industry who are land based, they are less than those employed by the council, yet, the fishing industry process fish, if that is all you are after, being processed then of course, you do not need a council, or its employees. To be honest, what point scoring are you trying to achieve. You do not get points for sitting on the side lines and following the sentiment of comments made by folk who may have been quicker with their thought and response. The evidence has indicated, that nationalisation is preferred, and why not for the fishing industry. If it suits your argument, then you of course are the all seeing. Enjoy the title.

 

I am quite happy that you as well have bothered to delve into the sphere of Gooogle to bolster your claims, it is full marks for you. Now doubt you are learing from the graduate. Fair play to you...

 

Anyhow, as a lib dem, how do you see the current Yes No vote?

Edited September 4, 2014 by shetlandpeat

[Suffererof1crankymofo]

Fishing when having consumed vodka really don't go down very well, does it?

[Scorrie]

 

As for the Scorrie interjection, WTF. Body swerve? You really are graduating from the same school as others.

 

As everyone seems to think, who are anal, the fishing fleet will be the saviour of the Northern Ises (guess who I am pointing that at) and will sustain the Northern most Isles of the new Scotland. It will not, if you compare the numbers employed by the industry who are land based, they are less than those employed by the council, yet, the fishing industry process fish, if that is all you are after, being processed then of course, you do not need a council, or its employees. To be honest, what point scoring are you trying to achieve. You do not get points for sitting on the side lines and following the sentiment of comments made by folk who may have been quicker with their thought and response. The evidence has indicated, that nationalisation is preferred, and why not for the fishing industry. If it suits your argument, then you of course are the all seeing. Enjoy the title.

 

 

 

.........

 

 

Blimey, SP. Caught out, bang to rights. Biting like a good 'un. Back to the Far Left School of Porky Pies/ Ministry of Truth for you. Must try harder when trying to cover his tracks. 

 

For the record, I believe that public services such as the water, NHS, prisons and even the Post Office should be controlled by Government, but certainly not run of the mill private enterprise.

 

Nice attempt at obfustication and false accusation to try and extract yourself from the situation, though. But as I am apparently  'all seeing', the fog of waffle causes no problems  for me. 

Edited September 5, 2014 by Scorrie

[shetlandpeat]

Fishing when having consumed vodka really don't go down very well, does it?

Explain

[Ghostrider]

How's the hangover this morning Peat?