Mareel - Cinema & Music Venue

[Carlos]

Suppose we upgrade the Garrison, new cinema hardware, new projection booth before it falls down, new seats....works to the floor to accomodate those? Is that £1m?

I presume Shetland Arts has a budget for all this remedial work? Gwillym Gibbons has given a firm commitment that the Garrison won't be 'run down' if we get Mareel........or are you suggesting that it's OK if it falls down on or is uncomfortable for theatre goers as long as it doesn't happen to cinema goers?

I presume somebody has done some kind of semi-detailed costings as part of the Mareel study, I've not seen them.

 

I'd say that the works required and the costs involved will be different depending if you want to do remedial works to the existing layout, or if you want to try and make a flexible compromise to deal with cinema and theatre needs, as somebody posted a little while back. I'd guess that might have theatre/cinema costs 3x as much as theatre only costs..... we'll likely see sooner or later......

 

The equipment you choose to go with will likely depend most on what formats the films are available in. Digital projectors and players are probably the least of the costs to be honest if you stay with a 2k system, and would last as long as anything electronic ever does, but I don't know how easy/cheap it is to get films digitally to suit that.

[Baron Farkoff]

Come on people,let's keep it real. If this plan gets put down now,Shetland will probably never get the facilities it deserves.why all the bickering about what kind of cinema projectors to use etc?It seems fairly obvious that all the equipment needs to be the best available or it may be out of date by the time the thing gets built.It also seems to betray a real lack of pride in shetland:if Shetlands' music and film making talent is as good as people here think it is,then why not give it the very best,not stifle any chance of creativity by supplying substandard gear,and cutting corners without need?Come on,sport has been massively invested in from the oil wealth while music has received vey little, and sport brings in next to no money to these islands.

The cost of transforming a sports hall into a music venue and back to meet health and safety legislation is enormous,and I would guess it is a major headache to the folk who run their fine sports centre.Do they want the responsibility of running a music venue as well? I'd guess not.

The comment about needing to isolate children from the real world and the opportunities it contains is ludicrous and I would suggest betrays a lack of Knowledge of what actually happens in the real world in which we all live in today.Children being removed from an over stimulating environment,Christopher William Thomson?Where do you suggest we hide them?Stimulating education does not make children numb,it helps them grow.I know,I am a parent,and have been a teacher of music accross the UK for many years,and have played in many, many professional bands who have performed in proper venues all over the world.

I know a band who came here to play a while ago as part of a Scottish tour, who,after playing in properlly equipped and organised venues were pretty disgusted with the low quality facilities available here,and will probably never come back.Now,you could argue that scrabbling around for amps half an hour before the show adds to the quirky charm of the place,but to a hard working band on a well run tour,It's just a pain in the backside.With a music venue properly equipped,everyone could reduce their long term costs and make it a surprising pleasure to play here ,not make a three day slog to a rock in the North sea a waste of everybodies' time.That,Mr Thomson,is the real world:the one inhabited by professionals.We are trying to give an opportunity to Shetlands'professionals of tomorrow.As you said yourself,you don't intend to settle here;is this because the facilities in the field in which you currently play in as an amateur don't meet the standards that you require for yourself?If you don't intend to be part of the future of Shetland,why are you wasting time engaging in argument with the rest of us who do?

[Ally]

Just out of interest, why's it called Mareel?

 

(yes, I'm sure this has been somewhere in the 1000+ previous posts, but life's to short...)

[WiiMan]

It also seems to betray a real lack of pride in shetland:if Shetlands' music and film making talent is as good as people here think it is,then why not give it the very best,not stifle any chance of creativity by supplying substandard gear,and cutting corners without need?

 

This sort of whingeing doesn't do your cause any justice. Indeed it would seem that it isn't just bad workmen who blame their tools!

 

The Beatles were born in the Cavern Club, no hi-tech, no cinema and no huge public subsidies. Quality will get through in Lerwick as well as Liverpool without the need for a facility like Mareel. Aly Bain, Catriona MacDonald and Black Bic Biro are all testament to that.

 

Mareel won't bring out talent but it will bring out the subsidy junkies.

[TeeAyBee]

Suppose we upgrade the Garrison, new cinema hardware, new projection booth before it falls down, new seats....works to the floor to accomodate those? Is that £1m?

 

I presume Shetland Arts has a budget for all this remedial work? Gwillym Gibbons has given a firm commitment that the Garrison won't be 'run down' if we get Mareel........or are you suggesting that it's OK if it falls down on or is uncomfortable for theatre goers as long as it doesn't happen to cinema goers?

 

 

I don't think anyone said or meant that.

 

And another thing, why have all the expensive state o' the art digital projection stuff when the vast majority of people attending the Garrison have no idea whether or not the film they just watched was digital or not?

 

There are two reasons really, why should Shetlanders not have state of the art? And secondly the best distribution channels to enagage with to ensure that up to the moment films are shown in Shetland are for digital format. It is quite hard to send a 35mm film over a satellite link. Admittedly the first reason is somewhat trite, but the second reason stands.

 

As an example: Picky cinema (Orkney) attendance figures

 

07/08 34,425

06/07 30,555

05/06 31,987

04/05 32,526

03/04 29,592

 

 

Picky might not be the best example to quote. The leisure centre is used approximately 25 times per annum on average by the population of Orkney. According to 'The Economist' magazine cinema usage in the UK has flattened out at 3 visits per year per person on average. I don't deny that given the geography and climate in Shetland 1.7 is probably a fair figure but I would imagine that Picky benefits greatly from parents being able to go to the gym while the kids go to the cinema in the same facility. I doubt that Mareel could benefit from the same synergy.

 

I also doubt very much that Picky would have the same excessively expensive set-up that's proposed for Mareel.

 

Anyone else care to get back on-topic?!

 

Is this not on topic? I thought some of the points were very relevant.

[TeeAyBee]

It also seems to betray a real lack of pride in shetland:if Shetlands' music and film making talent is as good as people here think it is,then why not give it the very best,not stifle any chance of creativity by supplying substandard gear,and cutting corners without need?

 

This sort of whingeing doesn't do your cause any justice. Indeed it would seem that it isn't just bad workmen who blame their tools!

 

That's a little bit of an extreme extrapolation of what he said isn't it? While I think your comment is unfairly rude, I agree to a limited extent with the sentiment. Talent will shine through, although to showcase it at its best and to develop it to its full potential takes support and facilities.

 

The Beatles were born in the Cavern Club, no hi-tech, no cinema and no huge public subsidies. Quality will get through in Lerwick as well as Liverpool without the need for a facility like Mareel. Aly Bain, Catriona MacDonald and Black Bic Biro are all testament to that.

 

Yes the Beatles were 'born' in the Cavern Club, but Brian Epstein found them and moved them into facilities and venues that meant they could develop and flourish, and find their niche away from the 'womb'. The main difference is that the Beatles could get into decent venues and recording facilities nearby - the Biros, Mr Bain etc. can't. I do agree that talent will shine through, but as every business person knows releasing an undeveloped product into the market is not going to go well.

[TeeAyBee]

The equipment you choose to go with will likely depend most on what formats the films are available in. Digital projectors and players are probably the least of the costs to be honest if you stay with a 2k system, and would last as long as anything electronic ever does, but I don't know how easy/cheap it is to get films digitally to suit that.

 

2K would seem to be a good way forward. The system implemented in the Kino at Hawkhurst is pretty good http://www.kinocinemas.co.uk/the_cinema.htm - the Christie 2K units have had excellent reviews and are comparable with pro 35mm. The key is as you say the distribution - I doubt that Shetland could secure a 35mm first release deal, but a digital one is do-able, particularly over the UKFC's DSN (Digital Screen Network) as used by the Kino.

[Talpa]

It can be heard said, both publically and privately, that it is mostly the young and the soothmoothers that want Mareel. Would it not then be prudent to support it? Is it not by encouraging the young people of Shetland to stay or return here and soothmoothers to move here and contribute to the economy that Shetland wil be able to afford the care homes, schools and infastructure of the future?

[JAStewart]

It also seems to betray a real lack of pride in shetland:if Shetlands' music and film making talent is as good as people here think it is,then why not give it the very best,not stifle any chance of creativity by supplying substandard gear,and cutting corners without need?

 

This sort of whingeing doesn't do your cause any justice. Indeed it would seem that it isn't just bad workmen who blame their tools!

 

The Beatles were born in the Cavern Club, no hi-tech, no cinema and no huge public subsidies. Quality will get through in Lerwick as well as Liverpool without the need for a facility like Mareel. Aly Bain, Catriona MacDonald and Black Bic Biro are all testament to that.

 

Mareel won't bring out talent but it will bring out the subsidy junkies.

 

Lets use other examples here, from a different activity. West Ham United have invested tens of millions into their footballing youth academy - give them up to date equipment and resources. As a result of this, they have produced quite a lot of home-grown world class stars [Rio F, Joe C, Frank L] - chance?

 

I really don't think you can compare the Beatles, a band that formed 40 years ago to bands forming now. Music has changed so that it is naive to suggest giving our musicians extra resources will do anything other than help them.

[Baron Farkoff]

I don't know about whingeing,but your comments seem to me to be hugely arrogant and out of touch-about fifty years out of touch.The cavern club was the best available at the time,and there was no such thing as high tech.with the collapse of the global recording market,any pro act will tell you that all the money is in live gigs,and if there's no venue,there is no opportunity to make money,simple as that.

Nowadays Liverpool has many fine venues,all properly equipped to enable bands of all levels to play together and mix and learn and grow.That's why Liverpool is the European Capital of Culture this year:it's inbuilt into the population there to support people in new cultural ventures,and you don't hear the peple there muttering about how things are not needed and will never work-they are up for it,and give things their full support!

To say that Shetland deserves a world class venue isn't whingeing,but for you to say that everyone should do without it and make to with the pitiful state of investment in music at the moment is certainly the sort of blinkered,revisionist, philistine pig ignorance that acts like The Beatles had to break through fifty years ago.I was wondering,what is your own level of experience within the artistic community,Wii Man?Do you have a background in the entertainment industry?

You seem scared that investment in music will not earn a return,but I don't see Lerwicks' six football pitches doing a roaring trade or receiving international acclaim,do you? You'll also notice that the three acts you mentioned no longer live on Shetland.Black Bic Biro in particular have gone to Glasgow because that is one place where the Scottish music scene is properly invested in,and they can reach an international audience from there.With a music hub on Shetland,other talent might not have to do this.Also,what about the acts which may be of equal talent who have given up because there was no support network at home? It's true that Sheltland has amazing instrumental teaching facilities in schools,but the gap between that and the world stage is vast.Why is a music college in Aberdeen advertising in the Shetland Times this week? Because there is a gap in the market.They have to go to Aberdeen to take things to the next level,and have then left their home behind.Playing a few country halls is the natural ceiling here at the moment.Then what?

[WiiMan]

You seem scared that investment in music will not earn a return,but I don't see Lerwicks' six football pitches doing a roaring trade or receiving international acclaim,do you? You'll also notice that the three acts you mentioned no longer live on Shetland.Black Bic Biro in particular have gone to Glasgow because that is one place where the Scottish music scene is properly invested in,and they can reach an international audience from there.

 

I fail to understand your obsession with football pitches when talking about music and cinema? Is it just jealousy or is there a point in there somewhere?

 

This brings me back to Jonathan Wills' comment that we should remember that we are a rock in the middle of the Atlantic with 20 odd thousand people on it. We're not as significant as we would like to think ourselves!

 

And the Beatles recorded at the Abbey Road studios which correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will) are in London.

[JAStewart]

I fail to understand your obsession with football pitches when talking about music and cinema? Is it just jealousy or is there a point in there somewhere?

 

I'll be the first to say: Yes. Yes it is. It is jealousy. Why can we spend literally millions on football pitches, but we couldn't spend £20,000 on a skatepark? Why can we spend literally millions on football pitches, but we can't do the same for music? There seems to be a hypocrisy of priorities.

 

This brings me back to Jonathan Wills' comment that we should remember that we are a rock in the middle of the Atlantic with 20 odd thousand people on it. We're not as significant as we would like to think ourselves!

 

I bet to differ. We were in the top 4 of a "Most beautiful places" as voted by the National Geographic. We have a world renown Folk Festival, and Up Helly-Aa Festival. We have the one of the biggest oil terminals in Europe.

 

And the Beatles recorded at the Abbey Road studios which correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will) are in London.

 

I'd love it for our musicians to record in Shetland, but at this rate it just won't happen. LGM are recording in Edinburgh because of the better facilities, Black Bic Biro are going to Glasgow and will probably record down there too.

[WiiMan]

Anyone else care to get back on-topic?!

 

Is this not on topic? I thought some of the points were very relevant.

 

Sorry TeeAyBee, this remark was not directed at peeriebryan but was meant for JAStewart and Jordan who were indulging in some childish off-topic banter.

 

This sort of whingeing doesn't do your cause any justice. Indeed it would seem that it isn't just bad workmen who blame their tools!

 

That's a little bit of an extreme extrapolation of what he said isn't it? While I think your comment is unfairly rude, I agree to a limited extent with the sentiment. Talent will shine through, although to showcase it at its best and to develop it to its full potential takes support and facilities.

 

 

I was going to apologise for being "unfairly rude" but given that Baron Farkoff responded in kind I won't!

[peeriebryan]

Quality will get through in Lerwick as well as Liverpool without the need for a facility like Mareel. Aly Bain, Catriona MacDonald and Black Bic Biro are all testament to that.

Catriona and BBB have registered their support for Mareel on www.myspace.com/mareelshetland (Aly doesn't have a MySpace, but Phil Cunningham has registered his support)

[JohnnyRandom]

Just out of interest, why's it called Mareel?

 

(yes, I'm sure this has been somewhere in the 1000+ previous posts, but life's to short...)

Mareel is the transient glow given off by plankton when they are moved suddenly in the water, such as when a boat might pass over the area of sea they inhabit.

 

Though Mareel is quite spectacular when it is first witnessed, it soon fades away leaving no trace of its presence.

 

How this connects to the cinema and music venue, i'm unsure.