Should drugs be legalised?

[shetlandpeat]

It has been proved that alcohol is more harmful to society than opiates or cocaine, sadly in this case, you are wrong. More are taken to the morgue as a result of alcohol consumption than any illegal drug.

 

And again, lowering the tone with personal insults. It would seem you have no other tangible argument.

 

Claudias, I raised the sheepshagger question, bob claims not to be him, tho may be from the same cast. But like sheepshagger, is not around for a wee while then comes on line and insults theories he seems not to be well read up on.

But we are not to call this, if he is and the sheepshagger account is still active then T&Cs have been broken.

 

I do not advocate drug misuse, though you seem to want to promote how safe alcohol is to society compared to opiates or cocaine.

 

What you may need to do is come back with some evidence or an admission you may have been misguided.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am not saying drinking is safe peat but when the vast majority of the population partake in drink then of course it is going to cost society more than the minority that take smack, but compare like for like 100 drinkers compared to 100 smack heads then smack will be far more dangerous than drink. 100 smackheads and only a few will be able to hold down a job but a 100 drinkers and 90+ will be able to hold down a job so in reality what costs more.

[shetlandpeat]

So, your saying that if drinkers took alcohol to the same degree as folk who take opiates, they can hold down a job.

 

Again, you show no stats.

 

Many jobs rely on the ability to function clearly. Folk who consumed drink to the same levels would not, and would tend to get liver failure, probably become depresses and will not fit in our society.

they would be as bad.

 

Again you fail to see what the debate is about.

 

The reports say that alcohol damages society more than opiates.

 

 

Your twisting the debate to your own reasons to justify your sweeping but somewhat non researched comments.

 

Legalising it and controlling it that way would help, as well as heavily taxing drink to reduce. Folk will always want a release.

If you look around the poppy fields abroad, many use what they grow, to no bad effect. Remove the ability for criminal gangs to make money no it and the world could feel the benefits.

[crofter-amy]

Legalising it and controlling it that way would help, as well as heavily taxing drink to reduce.

I don't follow your reasoning there Peat.

Alcohol is legal and controled but has become our biggest problem. Also if you make booze more expencive you are paving the way for blackmarket booze and all the problems that will bring.

[Guest Anonymous]

yet again peat you are spouting sharn, the fact is that you can partake in the consumption of alchohol without becoming addicted but I have never met anyone who uses opiates that did not become hopelessly addicted.

now you are going to want me to post a link to an internet site that supports my position and I wont because I have a life. but i will give you the benefit of my experiance I work in an industry where most of my collegues take a drink in their time off some take quite a lot of drink in their time off but at the end of their leave they return to the rig (or the betty ford clinic as some like to call it) and take no drink for the time they are at work no ill effects no withdrawal.

and then we have the ones who decided to try opiates when drug testing made the use of canabis a non starter if you wanted to remain employed, canabis being detectable in your urine for up to 3 months opiates clear of your system in a couple of days.

those that choose opiates were able to carry on at first but over time ussually less than a year then they were having to sneak smack out to the rig with them just so as they could function, and then they found that they couldn't take enough with them to last a whole trip especially when the trip lasted longer than normal, now they don't work offshore or anywhere else for that matter quite a few are dead from overdoses one or two deliberate quite a few accidental. so yes peat when it comes to comparing like for like then smack is a hell of a lot more dangerous addictive and destructive than drink not just to the person taking it but to society as a whole.

now lets have a look at cases of folks in my know that don't work offshore and who live in shetland, quite a lot of them started taking smack in the days of the LK sound factory, only one is holding down a job now and he is struggling to do that. and he is a guy that worked from the day he left school and liked a drink all his time he has had more employers in the last 4 years than the previous 20. A few are dead and the rest are on the social claiming disability and what is their disability oh yeah they are smack heads.

If you look around the poppy fields abroad, many use what they grow, to no bad effect.

 

yet more complete and utter crap peat if you go to the poppyfields you will find toddlers addicted to smack.( for details of this watch a program on national geographic about the international drugs trade, cant remember the name but it is showing just now)

dont accuse me of writing unresearched statements when you then go on to post sharn like that.

[paulb]

now you are going to want me to post a link to an internet site that supports my position and I wont because I have a life. but i will give you the benefit of my experiance I work in an industry where most of my collegues take a drink in their time off some take quite a lot of drink in their time off but at the end of their leave they return to the rig (or the betty ford clinic as some like to call it) and take no drink for the time they are at work no ill effects no withdrawal

 

o so not true bob. my wife is one of the folks who has to deal with your mates drinking. yes it does have serious ill effects. a lot of the rescues from the rigs are drink related. they have alchol issues they go to a dry area and then get ill. so bob before you have a dig at others get your facts right. its a very rare month when there are not a number of rig workers recovering in the GBH. the number of drink related illnesses is a very very big problem and not all of them are old.

[shetlandpeat]

bob may need to do a bit more to convince, I can only assume that he may like a binge.

May be why he defends the xsive consumption of alcohol and thinks it does no harm.

Just because you have not met many folk in your life should not limit you to think that there will be many others who do not fall as he quotes.

He has said in past quotes that he has watched is mate go down to the gutter with opiate abuse, and may not have known how to deal with it. And ignorance is no defense. Some folk, it will jade, some it will enhance.

There are many drug addicts who hold down jobs and get on with their lives, as there are many who drink do the same.

I would bet the admissions and cost to the NHS are far greater for alcohol abuse than opiate abuse, NATIONALLY.

[beachcaster]

I would bet the admissions and cost to the NHS are far greater for alcohol abuse than opiate abuse, NATIONALLY.

 

That statement is probably 100% true, but if you consider the percentage of the population who drink alcohol compared to those who take opiates, it is a not really comparable.

If there were the same number of people using opiates as there are using alcohol then I think you will find the figures would not back up your views on the subject.

 

There are millions of people in the UK who drink alcohol regularly and it doesn't affect their lives any furtur than the occasional hangover. If the UK had millions of opiate users, how many do you think could lead a normal life?

 

Its a one way trip for most opiate users, straight to an early grave, via the gutter. Some alcohol users will also follow this path, but on a 1-1 ratio of substance users, the junkies will come of worst.

[shetlandpeat]

We are talking about what is bad for society now. If any majority took one specific drug then that drug would be the problem.

 

But all xs is harmful.

 

Not all opiate users die early, nor do all alcohol users.

 

Another drug, that is legalised we know kills, harms far more younguns than the family sex pest is nicotine.

 

But I feel the money behind the lobby that forwards it makes it very difficult to curb it or tax it out of use.

 

If folk want to kill and maim themselves, they should pay to make that choice. If you tax it, you should then have greater resources to battle it.

[paulb]

if the drunks/junkies and smokers were not there the hospitals would be a good 60-70% emptier. junkies are the next biggest problem.

drunks seem to being dumped on the hospital instead of spending the night in the cells. same with the junkies they end up on the ward. now if they were od or sick fair enough. but its very expensive to admit someone to just watch them.

 

drunks and junkies can be a problem on an acute ward overnight with just a couple of women running the ward.

[shetlandpeat]

Cannot disagree with that ^^^^

 

The police have to do risk assessments and if someone is too far gone then they have a duty of care, this could mean sending folk to hospital, even more so if their condition worsens continually.

 

Most abuse comes from social deprivation.

 

But some comes through choice, even the most informed.

 

But the models we have already in Holland and Portugal where they are trying to remove the stigma set with substance abuse so folk can freely seek help with their problems are good.

 

In a way we seem to blame folk who are beyond our help and need professional help. But this I feel is a guilt thing.

 

To watch friends, mates and families spiral downward and not do anything that really helps can be distressing, it too can lead to other problems.

 

But, we do need to curb abuse, of all substances.

 

Those we know kill and cost the most should pay with higher taxes.

 

Scotland are looking at a minimum charge or alcohol units, that is a +ve thing.

 

But it should too come with and education package.

 

The trouble with the bashem brigade is they tend to be right wing and think they are above all what they see because they cannot comprehend the magnitude of the problem and how we should all be involved directly or indirectly in remedying it.

 

Education and prevention is far far better than the very very short term cure.

 

You may not want to be a part of it, but we all will have to pay for it.

[Guest Anonymous]

paul i have yet to see someone airlifted from a rig because of alchohol so I would put it to you that either you or your wife are talking a load of nonsense.

for a start there is breathalisers at the heliports and anyone suspected of being worse for wear will be refused on the flight.

 

terminology edited to keep njugle happy

[shetlandpeat]

If they can sneak drugs they can sneak drink.

 

Any closed society like that is the same. Made up of humans.

 

I have heard stories from rigs. Your not that good.

 

http://home.versatel.nl/the_sims/rig/index.htm

 

Why do you think because you have not seen it it don't happen?

 

I think he is talking about a lack of alcohol, DTs.

 

If folk were so good who worked on rigs, y are they not trusted??

 

Have to be tested because they will try to get away with it.

 

No pius folk there..

[Njugle]

Apart from professing to talk with authority for all the rigs in the north sea, all the time, which is perhaps a bit unwise, bobdahog, you can question paulb's veracity in a more reasonable manner than that, if you must.

 

I have no idea either way about offshore workers, but I am aware, for example, that people who drink regularly can suffer consequences when they lay off it, meaning that they could pass a breathalyser and still fall seriously ill afterward.

[beachcaster]

If they can sneak drugs they can sneak drink.....

 

I think drugs will be a little easier to hide than alcohol, I would like to see someone try to smuggle a bottle of Vodka on to a rig by stuffing it up their ass.

 

I doubt if every rig is completely dry though, someone will have found a way around all the checks if they are desperate enough.

 

It would probably be easier to brew their own whilst on the rig, as they will have all the basic ingredients available to them and probably have the time. I would nearly put a small wager on it that someone will have tried it at some point.

 

Having a friend on a supply boat would be an easier option though, they won't be subject to the same checks as anyone flying to a rig, and they could easily slip a few bottles into one of the supply containers.