Vik Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 It's great news da SIC wanna fin oot da views of Magnie, Bennie, Billy, Titty or Joe Public but what effort or point is there in this? Ders been mony instances whaar da SIC (the elected bit) ha been aware of tings, conflict, anger and aa da rest & ploughed on lik a train wioot a driver. Der arrogant attitude "we elected them so they can do whatever they like untill the next election) is a disease of democracy equal to terminal cancer. Issues dat cost the public purse, threaten or change tings sud be put to aa da folk afor da cooncil deliberate. Democracy is a very special thing and our elected members local or national should not take it for granted as they have been doin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twerto Posted February 12, 2011 Report Share Posted February 12, 2011 To me it is about you have got to start somewhere, at least at the moment part of the council if not all appears to be trying to do something to repair the image of Shetland/SIC and I Personally applaude this first step. Time will tell weather it is another fad or not.. but if this communications malarkey takes of on the right footstep then surely it will be easier to hold SIC employees and council members more accountable for their actions as Information in theory will be recorded in such a manor that people can go i told you so and display information to prove such n such happened and such n such wasnt adhered to. But then again im sure you think im nieve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KTL Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 If the SIC wants to give democracy a try for a peerie start I'd back them all the way. The biggest problem just now is a complete lack of trust. Councillors clearly do not trust the wider population - hence their paternalistic approach to running Shetland. The wider population have a deep mistrust of our councillors (witness the ongoing Anderson High saga, school closures, Viking Energy etc). With the active backing and support of the wider population our council could achieve a lot. To get that backing they must first win the public trust. Communication and honesty will help. Adding professional spin to every controversial decision made by the SIC probably only increases the mistrust and frustration between councillors and the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 If you ask the public, they will tend to give you the answer you don't want. So, best not to ask. This goes on at all levels. The key would be to break the cycle, yup, there may be discourse but it means the field is level again.But, there are times when JP is not qualified to answer some questions, this is where JP thinks they may have been hard done by. Many things are interlinked and sometimes the simplistic thinking will not always help. But, to do it in camera and in such a way that it looks too confusing or too extrapolated could be deemed wrong.I mus add that when I go to council meetings here, it is always the same JP in the room, so you go from a minority who have a mandate to a minority challenging that mandate. The more folk take part, the more involved they get, the more cam be seen to be put right. Go to your council meetings, it is your right. You can have it minuted and then you have that tool to hit back. Sitting back is probably more comfortable tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuckleJoannie Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Go to your council meetings, it is your right. You can have it minuted and then you have that tool to hit back. At SIC meetings this will only happen if you are formally asked to comment. Normally you'll just be asked to be quiet. However Community Councils are a bit more informal so you may have your chance to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Is that by lobby or petition? We can go and watch the County and Borough meetings, sadly I cannot get too involved as one of them is my boss. Which again makes me worry as I am privy to info that some others may not know about, but I cannot say anything for fear of arrest. There is a fine line to what can be told by proxy without knowing the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAStewart Posted February 16, 2011 Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Council does nothing... blasted. Council does something... blasted. I'm curious if any one of our regular moaners on the forum have actually tried to contact their local representative and meet them to discuss their gripes? Maybe this would help to convey your message across and I imagine as your representatives they are probably legally obliged to engage with you in some form. If you can't resolve your issue at all when speaking to them at least you can be happy to know that they have spoken to you and that they're not just sitting up in some imaginary ivory tower. They're just people at the end of the day. Write to them, write to the Community Councils too! Phone your councillors, you can find their numbers in the BT directory, on the SIC website or even easier on Shetlopedia! http://shetlopedia.com/Politics#Current_Shetland_Islands_Councillors Or everyone can just gripe pointlessly on Shetlink behind fake names. I'm a pessimist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 It is quite a battle to get folk to actually do stuff like this, but the motivation has to be there. Although I think this big society thing is sorta right, we have had it all the time anyway. There are so many folk who will help others without judging them first. There are many folk who give up time and effort, of a limited time they have on this planet to help others to forward the populus. Yet the VoxPop scream for blood at the drop of a feather. We are geared up to be a community, the community needs direction sometimes. The next couple of months will tell when folk start to loose their jobs. Because it is being done from the top down, there is allot of one upmanship taking place in order to keep your pay packet, and only human nature. That is why we have systems in place that try to avoid that and create a level playing field, so all get a chance. Every single one of us has the qualification to become Prime minister, we were born here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhutch Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Council does nothing... blasted. Council does something... blasted. I'm curious if any one of our regular moaners on the forum have actually tried to contact their local representative and meet them to discuss their gripes? Maybe this would help to convey your message across and I imagine as your representatives they are probably legally obliged to engage with you in some form. If you can't resolve your issue at all when speaking to them at least you can be happy to know that they have spoken to you and that they're not just sitting up in some imaginary ivory tower. They're just people at the end of the day. Write to them, write to the Community Councils too! Phone your councillors, you can find their numbers in the BT directory, on the SIC website or even easier on Shetlopedia! http://shetlopedia.com/Politics#Current_Shetland_Islands_Councillors Or everyone can just gripe pointlessly on Shetlink behind fake names. I'm a pessimist. realist i doot minn , longer doo goes on takin an interest n speakin oot for richt n wrang da more doo will see how 2 faced n spineless folk can be , more perteeklerly wir ain folk, applies to all n every occaision, local politics is da same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostrider Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Council does nothing... blasted. Council does something... blasted. This is the nature of public office, get used to it. Doing nothing is not an option. Doing something, there will aways be a mob of very loud critics. The art to knowing whether you've done something that was right, or a screw up, is to check and see if you can fine one or two folk in a far corner muttering, "Feth, hits no afore time...." If you can't find those few, its the latter, if you can find them, its the former. You will never please all of the people all of the time, if you're extremely lucky you will please one or two folk some of the time, but by God those you haven't pleased with be right at the front shouting loudest, making it damn hard for you to know you've pleased anyone. Ignore the noisy crowd, and look very hard for those few muttering in a corner. If you can find them, take solace in the fact they exist, and move on to the next item on the agenda. If you find all the corners empty, take one look at the baying crowd, throw a juicy bone off to one side of them as far as you can for them to chase and chew, then run like beggary in the other direction. I'm curious if any one of our regular moaners on the forum have actually tried to contact their local representative and meet them to discuss their gripes? Maybe this would help to convey your message across and I imagine as your representatives they are probably legally obliged to engage with you in some form. It wouldn't surprise me after some of the comments I've made about this council, if they all have restraining orders taken out on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Council does nothing... blasted. Council does something... blasted. I'm curious if any one of our regular moaners on the forum have actually tried to contact their local representative and meet them to discuss their gripes? Maybe this would help to convey your message across and I imagine as your representatives they are probably legally obliged to engage with you in some form. Did send a message to all 3 councillors some time ago and got a decent response from one. Possible that they agreed on just one councillor to respond. But my recent communication to a specific councillor got no reply. Mixed results when contacting the council staff as well. Some departments have given a fast response explaining the issue I raised but two departments have yet to reply or acknowledge letters delivered in October. Does Zettrans count as council?. Wrote to them a couple of times. First was to complain that their on-line bus timetable was inaccurate and had it not been for a chance conversation with a bus driver I could have been stuck getting an expensive taxi from the Ness to Lerwick (note to SIC.....make sure on-line information is updated) while the second time was when I missed a bus into Lerwick from Blydoit (Scalloway) because the on-line timetable did not show that this particular bus (coming from Burra) stopped on the main road rather than coming into the bus stop at Blydoit. Actually since there is neither a bus stop sign nor a shelter on the main road they may not have heard the last of this but meanwhile it stands as an example of communication error. After my messages to them the site was updated within days if not hours. Before anyone says that I should have known about the Blydoit issue I would like to point out that I live in Lerwick and was visiting friends in Blydoit who do not use the buses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMe Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Council does nothing... blasted. Council does something... blasted.Yes I agree with that and of course both councillors, their officials and the council staff are far more likely to be criticised in a small council like the SIC than in bigger councils or at least criticisms are far more likely to be noticed by the wider public than in bigger councils. However there is a difference between criticism/complaint and "blasting" any part of the council. My two Zettrans complaints (see above) were about genuine issues that I felt needed to be addressed but I was certainly not "blasting" anyone. Having time and a computer available certainly means that I am more likely to make a complaint rather than just moan about something to my friends but most of my complaints (and there are not that many overall) are meant to be helpful by pointing out something I perceive as a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exciseman Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 ^^^^^^^Spot on JustMe.Complaints and criticism are something that kale-yard councillors hate that is why our rates are being spent on ‘spin-doctors’ and a ‘communications strategy’. It is absolutely ridiculous that for a population of just 22000 with an already massive number of council employees per head of population we have to employ so called specialist communication advisors and communication ‘project-managers’. If SIC councillors, departments and employees can’t already communicate effectively with the small population we have then they shouldn’t be in the job in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Para Handy Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 Local democracy in the Lerwick Town Hall?There is a first time for everything I suppose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shetlandpeat Posted February 17, 2011 Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 The numbers may be there just to run a council, you need a certain amount of staff and cabinet members for a population of 20k or 100k. To attract funding, systems will have to be in place and you have to evidence such systems.Adult education requires equality and diversity, a monitoring process, and a self assessment. External inspectors can be very inquisitive and it can take six months to prepare for an inspection, the council has responsibilities for adult education. If you fail your inspection, you fail the population. You cannot provide.Same with day care. That too has to be fully staffed, there is too much at risk already. Although the GOV will dictate rules and levels of compliance, it is the Portfolio holders who are charged with being democratic, or Cabinet members.Not the staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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