Deportation - Apparently A Debate Thread?? :?

[peeriesooky]

i didnae say i couldna use english, jist keep forgetting tae.

took me ages to write that post you use as an example, as i had tae mak sure i stuck tae english, but i noticed ithers type as dey spik, so why can't i?

so whits di point?

or yet again, are folk trying tae drag a thread intae disrepute under da guise o makin a point?

(i put dat as a question as i am no saying dat is definately whit du's daing)

 

I was complimenting your English, as you seemed to be a bit of a sensitive soul who needed a bit of reassurance.

 

in dat case, thank you

[peeriesooky]

I am getting a little confused when reading these posts, I thought it was a debate thread on a discussion forum??

 

There does seem to be a few cases where comments are being dismissed as they are appearing not to be in favour of the 'debated' cause.

 

It is very easy to become defensive over comments that conflict with ideas you feel passionately about but to belittle or undermine (for want of better words) someone for there passions or ideas lying elsewhere and being different to yours isn't what I thought a debate was.

Surely everyone's opinion is rightly theirs and they have the freedom of speech to express it, whether or not you like it and this is afterall a democratic country we live in....??

And while there are comments on this thread I don't necessarily agree with, I do try to remember that it is a 'debate' thread and in every debate there are differing and opposing sides. As Tartanlass quotes at the end of her posts "Treat others like you'd like to be treated yourself".

 

well said. in order tae debate der needs to be a difference o opinions, otherwise waars da debate? if there wisna any difference o opinion, it wid be da back slapping thread.

and da unfortunate things is there has been a lot o belittling etc. but can u blame folk fir nae wanting tae come straight oot and say how dey feel on here? if you dinna agree wi da most vocal folk on here, you get brow beaten, regardless o whit du puts doon. that's how it appears tae me having looked through da threads. and if dats how i've taken it tae be, du can bet plenty o ithers have as well. and while we're on tae using relevant quotes, how aboot these words by Voltaire: "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"

[Jonners]

as fir "unfortunate accusatory, mean-spirited tone which is unhelpful", it is possible dat if du's seeing dis tone, dat perhaps du's reading it wrang.

 

Weak argument. The onus is on the writer to make their point understood. The reader can only make judgements on what has been written. There's simply nothing else to go on.

 

What I do detect is a certain resentment from some people, although they seem reluctant to come out and say why, which I find strange

 

Sceptics - it's easy to suggest you have reasons for the adoption of an unfortunate accusatory, mean-spirited tone, but unless you can let us all in on what these reasons are then we can't really make a judgement on whether your stance is valid or not. We're entitled to make judgements on what you say because - as has been rightly pointed out ad nauseum - this is indeed a discussion forum.

[vailron]

as this is now a debate, it looks like i have to play devils advocate again. i have spoken to several folk who think that sakchai should be deported. he has broken the law, and the law states that any foreign national with a criminal record be deported. everyone says that he is not a threat to the community, but can anyone gaurantee 100% that he will never get drunk and never set fire to something while under the influence??? not all shetlanders are in favour of the campaign, but because of the strength of feeling by the campaigners, some folk feel intimidated and are afraid to voice their real opinion

[moorit]

as this is now a debate, it looks like i have to play devils advocate again. i have spoken to several folk who think that sakchai should be deported. he has broken the law, and the law states that any foreign national with a criminal record be deported. everyone says that he is not a threat to the community, but can anyone gaurantee 100% that he will never get drunk and never set fire to something while under the influence??? not all shetlanders are in favour of the campaign, but because of the strength of feeling by the campaigners, some folk feel intimidated and are afraid to voice their real opinion

 

There is no 100% guarantee that any prisoner who when released will not go and commit a crime again. Does that mean everyone who commits a crime should be locked up for good ?

[Njugle]

he has broken the law, and the law states that any foreign national with a criminal record be deported.

 

Not strictly true vailron. The "law" as such, is a guideline, which states that any foreign national who has been sentenced to more than 12 months imprisonment for a criminal offence will automatically be considered for deportation. ie there will be a review for every individual who falls within this criteria, with the most likely outcome being deportation, particularly if the individual is considered a risk to society.

 

Unless there is some statute that i have completely overlooked, in which case i apologise for reading the Hansard report and a gov.uk site erroneously.

[vailron]

of course not, isnt that the whole point about the law in question, surely anyone is a potential threat to their local community. but what really saddens me about this whole campaign, is that some people, especially the older ones, are afraid to voice their real opinions, because they feel intimidated by the youngsters campaining for sakchai

[littlemissbrightside]

It has been made clear that this website is unashamedly behind the campaign for Sakchai. If your concerns are not getting the respect you feel they deserve, then it IS your right to use or create another website. If your concerns are valid, the population will follow you. Or you may just be on your own.

 

 

I just want to clarify that my post from which the above quote has been taken is not a reflection on how I personally feel about the cause and I'm sorry if that was not made clear. I, personally, agree with the vast majority of posters on this thread.

Howerver, I am willing to listen to the views and opinions of others who maybe don't, with the same respect as I hope they would listen to mine.

This is a really interesting and complicated subject to debate (in a local and natioanl context) and I just think that people with differing opinions should respectfully be able to contribute to this debate.

 

I don't think there is anyone claiming they are being picked on but perhaps the seams of the resentment you (Ally) mention could be picked at to get a real debate going and perhaps find out if these people really are sceptics as Jonners suggests, or something else.

 

 

Now, is Sackchai's case possibly part of a knee-jerk reaction by the Labour Government to win back support in the light of the rising support in certain constituencies of the British National Party??

Any thoughts??

[vailron]

to see what i am geting at all one has to do is read the posts here, anyone whop dares disagree with the campaigners gets shot down in flames

[littlemissbrightside]

Vailron, now is your chance to say what you feel about the case.

Do you agree with the possible deportation of Sackchai himself and others in his position? If so, why and if not, why not?

[vailron]

i agree with his deportation, the law was put in place for a reason, i also believe that if the case involved someone that was unemployed, or had learning/mental health issues, there would be nowhere near as much support for their cause. the law does state that a foreign national with a crinminal record is eligible for deportation, and i am afraid to say that sakchai does have a criminal record. so where is the problem. everyone says he is not a threat, but what happens next time he has a drink and decides to set fire to something, next time it may not be a derilict car or hut it could be someones home. not forgetting he was charged with 2 incidents of fire raising. no doubt i will now be banned from here for speaking my mind, feel free to do that. i will also be castigated for being so open, i just wish many others had the bittle to speak up, and air their true feelings about the matter

[JustMe]

vailron wrote

 

not all shetlanders are in favour of the campaign, but because of the strength of feeling by the campaigners, some folk feel intimidated and are afraid to voice their real opinion

 

That is a sad comment.......I do hope people against the campaign are not afraid to voice their views. As to the reasons for the campaign I believe that a lot of people are angry that the government are running around trying to cover up for their mistakes and that the proposed deportation has more to do with saving face than any risk to society.

 

Would we have had this campaign if Sakchai had been considered for deportation before he was released from jail?. I think we would although not on such a scale. Same issues about this being his home and Thailand being as foreign to him as to most of us would still have applied. What adds to this campaign is the sense of injustice that he was allowed to leave prison, return home and start rebuilding his life.

 

I would add that if Sakchai "wins" on July 7th there will still be similar cases where the heavy hand of government needs to be countered by campaigns such as this one and I suspect some of the data aquired and campaigning experience gained will be used to help others seeking justice.

[Njugle]

no doubt i will now be banned from here for speaking my mind, feel free to do that. i will also be castigated for being so open, i just wish many others had the bittle to speak up, and air their true feelings about the matter

 

vailron, speaking on behalf of shetlink, i would like to strongly point out that the site administrators have nothing whatsoever against any individual user speaking their mind so long as it is within our T&C's and otherwise reasonable. Thus far you have done absolutely nothing to even require a moments consideration of banning from the site by the team. Please believe that. If you have ongoing questions regarding policy or banning please feel free to contact any of the team and we will be happy to elaborate.

[Tomblands]

no doubt i will now be banned from here for speaking my mind, feel free to do that. i will also be castigated for being so open, i just wish many others had the bittle to speak up, and air their true feelings about the matter

 

I doubt you'll be banned, unless you start acting like a wooble when you do get the inevitable responses. You've made your feelings known, and you have done it in the correct thread.

 

On to your main point...

 

i also believe that if the case involved someone that was unemployed, or had learning/mental health issues, there would be nowhere near as much support for their cause.

 

What makes you think this? When it comes to issues such as this, I doubt the fact that someone is unemployed or if they have learning difficulties would make any difference in the public reaction.

 

the law does state that a foreign national with a crinminal record is eligible for deportation, and i am afraid to say that sakchai does have a criminal record. so where is the problem.

 

The problem?

 

The fact that he has been welcomed back into the community?

 

The fact that the Judge at his trial accepted that it was out of character?

 

The fact that he is being punished nearly 2 years later for a crime he has already served the time for?

 

everyone says he is not a threat, but what happens next time he has a drink and decides to set fire to something, next time it may not be a derilict car or hut it could be someones home. not forgetting he was charged with 2 incidents of fire raising.

 

Yeah, it might happen. Just the same as I might go out and set a building on fire. Does that mean I should be jailed...because I "might" do something?

[Ally]

as this is now a debate, it looks like i have to play devils advocate again. i have spoken to several folk who think that sakchai should be deported. he has broken the law, and the law states that any foreign national with a criminal record be deported. everyone says that he is not a threat to the community, but can anyone gaurantee 100% that he will never get drunk and never set fire to something while under the influence??? not all shetlanders are in favour of the campaign, but because of the strength of feeling by the campaigners, some folk feel intimidated and are afraid to voice their real opinion

 

I don't agree with you Varilion, however I'm glad that someone has had the balls to actually come out and say they're point of view (however unpopular), without hiding behind innuendo or preternding to be in favour of the campaign when in reality they're against it.