Unst emergency service

[jetsam]

http://www.shetnews.co.uk/news/5347-scott-raises-unst-ambulance-concerns

 

Whit happens when da Jigsaw helicopter is away for crew change? Dat can sumtimes be ywartree days dependin on da wadir...

[Shoogler]

What's changed from the level of cover available previously?

[riskassessed]

Surely the "endless public sector haggling" that Tavish Scott refers to is caused by.........Ah yes, the Government cutting funding to the bone for these vital public services.

[MuckleJoannie]

What's changed from the level of cover available previously?

 

From the Shetland Times

 

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/2012/08/14/ambulance-staff-with-travel-north-to-discuss-remote-medical-evacuations

 

Fears have been aired following the SIC’s ferries review, which could see standby cover on the Bluemull Sound and Yell Sound routes axed. That would mean that all night-time medical evacuations would need to be carried out by helicopter.

[Hector's House]

How often does an ambulance actually travel at night from Unst and/or Yell? Statistically I'd reckon very rarely, so what is the cost payoff for the ferry standby against the helicopter use? After all there are 2 choppers available, which of course can be on duty offshore but surely have a quicker delivery time to GBH than a full road trip from Unst? With a pretty reliable aerial service, I'd feel happier knowing there were more First Responders with defibrillators & major trauma training etc. Those are the areas where more lives are saved nowadays.

There are always going to be circumstances where ANY cover will be inadequate.

Maybe the savings could even be used to give basic First Aid training to people in remote communities?

[Stevo]

What's changed from the level of cover available previously?

 

The offshore jigsaw helicopter is contracted to the Ambulance Service to provide an air ambulance service within Shetland..

 

However, it is limited in when it can fly and where it can fly. (From Shetland Times) It cant fly at night for example.

 

So whats the point in having an air ambulance that cant fly at night.

 

At night, if there is an emergency, there is no ferry for the ambulance and the contracted air ambulance cant fly, hence why the coastguard helicopter has had to be called in to cover the short comings.

 

Tavish does have a point, why should they rely on the coastguard to pick up the slack when the Ambulance is paying for a service that the air ambulance cant deliver.

[Spinner72]

The offshore jigsaw helicopter is contracted to the Ambulance Service to provide an air ambulance service within Shetland..

 

However, it is limited in when it can fly and where it can fly. (From Shetland Times) It cant fly at night for example.

 

So whats the point in having an air ambulance that cant fly at night.

 

Jesus, If that is true then during the winter months it will hardly be able to fly at all, and for the purposes of offering alternative means of evacuation from the isles, whatever cuts are in the ferry services I am sure they will still be running during winter daylight hours so in most cases the helicopter wont be needed.

 

Could it be that what we are seeing here may be a recurring theme?

 

Emergency cover being provided for by "extra" services the council can no longer afford, which it turns out should have been provided by central government all along?

[unlinkedstudent]

Isn't the jigsaw's first obligation to the oil industry though?

[shetlandpeat]

 

However, it is limited in when it can fly and where it can fly. (From Shetland Times) It cant fly at night for example.

 

So whats the point in having an air ambulance that cant fly at night.

 

At night, if there is an emergency, there is no ferry for the ambulance and the contracted air ambulance cant fly, hence why the coastguard helicopter has had to be called in to cover the short comings.

 

Bit confused,

 

from ST

 

 

 

She said that the lights at the Unst airstrip were being examined to make sure the Jigsaw aircraft could land at night.

 

I for one minute do not think there would be an air ambulance service that cannot fly at night that could be called to collect an emergency from an oil rig.

 

Who is telling the truth?

 

Isn't the jigsaw's first obligation to the oil industry though?

 

I would think its priority is the 1st emergency and then the type would need to be assessed. Like any air ambulance. I do not think they will pick up a broken arm from a rig and leave a person having a stroke on Unst. Do you? Again, we could invent all sorts of situations to prove a point here.

I would leave it up to the medical profession who know and are trained to make such judgements.

 

What happens when ferry or helicopter cannot make it, say due to the weather?

 

With such worries, I would be pushing for the Council or the Ambulance service to make available Defibs. Where installed they have saved quite a few lives.

[unlinkedstudent]

SP, I think you're missing the point. My understanding was that jigsaw chopper was paid for by the oil industry (I'd ask Ghostie but he asleep), wasn't it BP initially?

 

I thought that if someone was injured say on an oil rig, the jigsaw chopper went and dealt with that and it was only if they had capacity after dealing with 'oil call-outs' then they dealt with anything they've contracted with NHS Shetland or whomever and hence, therefore, standard triage assessments don't apply.

 

Perhaps arrangements have changed and I've completely got the wrong end of the stick?

 

Edit: Re lights on runway - even when a chopper takes off at night down here , they still shut the road most of the time depending on whether or not they using that runway but even when they don't use that runway and use a different one, they still light up the runway - I think it's an aviation requirement that they light up the runway so perhaps they were just testing the runway lights for the jigsaw? Whilst they don't need as many lights as a plane, I think it's in the regulations somewhere that airports whack them on.

[shetlandpeat]

There is this...

 

Implementation will involve the provision of two new SAR helicopters - one based offshore in the central North Sea area, and one based at Scatsta, Shetland. An additional back-up helicopter, with SAR capability, will be based in Aberdeen. This was when it was set up in 2004 or there abouts.

 

More recently.. http://www.pandjenergy.co.uk/2012/07/bps-jigsaw-completes-emergency-milestone/

 

Still think they can fly at night though. There are the vessels as well. The documentation points to a "jigsaw" of support for SAR, which it was set up to cover. It is much bigger than 1 chopper.

 

I think though that alternative care plans should be considered any how. I will be trying to get any new build of a public building here where I live, to have a Defib, public or private. We are also considering looking for funding to provide them in our remote areas and to ensure that that the Ambulance Service has recruited enough First Responders and perhaps paramedics identified.

There are several vessels in Unst, I am sure some sort set up could be arranged.

Ideally, the ferry should be on some sort of standby, but if there are other methods that could provide the the same or a better service, perhaps it should be considered. As far as Scott getting involved, him and ferries do not seem to gel as it was him who let Northlink put their vessels into dry dock at one of the busiest times in the Shetland calender.

[Seaflech]

I think a lot of what's been written on this thread stems from an erroneous comment in the Shetland Times. The Jigsaw helicopter can and does fly at night. Given that it is a 24/7 search and rescue asset there would be little point in it not having an all weather day/night capability. The problem with flying at night with respect to Unst is a lightbulb one, as apparently there aren't enough of them working at the airfield. I believe that the ambulance service prefer their helicopters, or those contracted to them, to land at suitably lit and fire covered airports or airstrips for routine patient transfer, as opposed to incidents like car crashes etc. The point of all the lights being switched on at Sumburgh even when the helicopter sometimes doesn't even use a runway is purely on safety grounds - if an engine goes bang on take off it's good to know where you can dump it back down on the ground again if you have to.

 

Yes the Jigsaw machine is bought and paid for by BP, but as stated the Scottish Ambulance Service has a contract with them to provide medical evacuation from remote parts of Shetland. Orkney's remote areas are covered by the SAS's own helicopter based in Inverness.

A number of people here are getting rather caught up in the whole 'what if' mind set. If a helicopter is tasked to go and airlift somebody, be they on an island or on a rig, it is obviously deemed serious enough to merit it and it will happen. If a subsequent call comes in then that will be dealt with either afterwards, or the Coastguard would be called in to cover. They're not going to shove an Unst person out the door over Yell sound because somebody on a rig has his arm in a sling are they.

In exactly the same way, 'what if' the Coastguard are called to a sinking fishing boat and another one starts sinking? It will be dealt with using the available resources. In my mind if you are getting to the second or third 'what if' then you should probably just switch the TV on and try and take your mind off it.

 

There seems to be more to this argument than meets the eye. I can't quite fathom why there is so much emphasis being put on the ferry being available for medical evacuations. I can state with some confidence that if I was seriously ill on Unst I would rather wait just over an hour to then have a 20 minute flight to the GBH in a well equipped helicopter with a paramedic on board than have to wait for two ferry crews to be mobilised, rumble across Bluemull sound, have a 17mile road journey followed by another ferry crossing then a 40 minute drive to Lerwick in an ambulance with a first responder on board. (With absolutely no disrespect to them - quite the opposite.)

Shetland is far better placed than a lot of Scotland when it comes to evacuation from remote areas. We have two dedicated helicopters available 24 hours a day, only 25 or so minutes flying time from the furthest parts of the islands, with paramedic trained crew on board. Compare that to many parts of rural Scotland and I don't really think there is a case for so much arguing. If you break your leg in Altnaharra or Arisaig or Achnasheen or Achiltibuie it will take you a damned site longer to get to hospital than it will from Haroldswick to Lerwick.

I fancy the underlying factor here is a bit more powder being kept dry should the ferry service review result in major cuts in the day to day ferry provision. As stated above, on how many occasions annually is the ferry actually called out? I'm thinking out of a population of 800 it can't be that often. Also, if the helicopter service is good enough for Foula, Fair Isle, Papa Stour, Out Skerries etc, then why should Unst be any different? It seems to smack of a political argument rather than a medical one.

[Hector's House]

...an erroneous comment in the Shetland Times...

Now there's a rarity

They're not going to shove an Unst person out the door over Yell sound...

If it was good enough for Her Maj at the Olympics it's good enough for me!

 

 

Of course, the other option for guaranteeing ambulance access is tunnels.

 

Out of curiosity, is there a proper landing strip on Yell?

[Selkie]

There is no landing strip on Yell.

[Spinner72]

^^ Nope, not unless its appeared in the last couple of days and is very well hidden!

 

I can't quite fathom why there is so much emphasis being put on the ferry being available for medical evacuations.

 

I assume this is down to the fact it is available now, and has been for quite a while, but may not be in the relatively near future, along with the interpretations of what a "lifeline ferry service" actually means.

 

The fact is that even with very few callouts in a year, it probably costs less to have a skeleton ferry crew on standby and use that for all but the most time-critical of cases, so whomever is paying for the cover, there is that aspect to consider as well.