Shetland windfarm - Viking Energy

[derick]

Try accommodating a couple of hundred bears at short notice on Unst, or on Yell if the ferry breaks down, or is cancelled because of the same weather that caused the aircraft to divert.

The overall problem is that if Shetland makes it too difficult for the oil companies (operating to/from Scatsta) to operate, they will simply up sticks and relocate somewhere else.

Can you see the flaw in your plan?

 

damn! forgot about the ferry! But then again, think of the extra trade for the Hilltop and Saxavord

 

I predict that in 30 years time the site at Sullom, currently occupied by redundant crude tanks will host a big redox flow battery.

[derick]

Cud we no just drag yun twa carriers nort dan, close baeth Sumburgh and Scatsta and get on wi it. Du micht even a gotten een o yun Pasivhaus hooses an dan maybe du cud laev dy hovel tae de hens !

 

for £25-£75 a year total heating costs for a new hoose 15% extra over construction costs compared tae a standard hoose - da hens can hae ye olde hoose onytime!

 

 

http://www.sphc.co.uk/why-building-passivhaus

[derick]

^^^^^^^ SUPPORT OUR TROOPS!

Close Scatsa to build a windfarm, jesus i've heard it all

Keep taking the pills.

 

How does 2 banana republic aircraft carriers, one of which will need to be sold as UK can't afford to run the thing, and the other of which still doesn't have a plan for any sort of planes to go with it, and both of which are being paid for by printing money in true banana republic style, thus degrading the currency, support 'our troops'

 

How, exactly?

[derick]

Browsing youtube - is this a new video from sustainable Shetland?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQxXKzdmhvk

 

Weel, given that the man in the film is Billy Fox, I suspect 'yes'.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/worlds-largest-vanadium-flow-battery-goes-online-usa-165814823.html

[stilldellin]

^ Re the Vanadium Flow Battery, surely even more reason to hang fire and charge it via the Yell and Bluemull tides and no interconnector required. patience, man, patience !

[shetlandpeat]

As waves are generated over hundreds of miles of ocean and travel, not only can we forecast them more accurately than local winds but they are often out of sync with the wind conditions, such that wave power can provide a good balance to wind generation.

 

The Pelamis machine does look interesting, alas it too has a reported low efficiency rating (25% to 40%). Sadly, it will need submarine cables, more insurance claims and more down time? It will also need land based stations for maintenance and "converter" stations. It will need the grid upgrading.

 

This is also funded via the tax payer

The Scottish Government has provided funding for the project through the WATES scheme and consent via Section 36 of the Electricity Act.

 

Sottish Power Renewables are testing near Orkney.

 

The experience gained from this project will play a vital role in ScottishPower Renewables' plans to install 66 Pelamis machines in a 50MW project off Marwick Head in Orkney, for which an agreement for lease has been awarded by the Crown Estate.

 

To match the possible o/p of the VE project to warrant the building of the interconnection to create an income to compensate the users of the local waters you may need quite a few.

 

http://www.pelamiswave.com/

 

The Aegir Project reveals a little more, for up to 14 machines, an area of 2 square KM will be cordoned off. This will be for 10 MW.

 

Again, much of the money going south to the Crown Estates.

 

60MW will power about 500 houses, when it is wavy

 

With wind and wave, there is the potential to turn Shetland into a world leader with these types. Of course, folk will have to agree.

[derick]

^ Re the Vanadium Flow Battery, surely even more reason to hang fire and charge it via the Yell and Bluemull tides and no interconnector required. patience, man, patience !

 

I was more thinking of storing power for export through the interconnector(s) - for more will be built.

 

With you all the way on tidal - way to go in the long term. But don't see that should prevent use of the wind resource now. Less convinced on wave power as making structures strong enough to stand the Sea is not going to be easy. Then again human beings are capable of designing a motorised tea trolley, sending to Mars, landing it safely, and having it drive around for years digging holes and taking photos.

 

The problem I have with restricting renewables to a Shetland only grid is that it misses the export opportunity.

 

Given that expanding renewables is European, UK and Scottish Government Policy, and SIC, and the Energy Consents Unit have approved it, Chris Bunyan's point that it is going to be built now, is fair. The only question is, 'is Shetland going to share the benefits'.

 

Yes, a minority are angry and hurt about it - as I said above, people were angry and hurt when oil came. But it was for the best, on balance, in the end. What of the interests of future generations who will have to leave Shetland, when the oil ends. Don't make tragic photos for the Shetland News, but what about them? How will they live?

 

I would like to see a proper Carbon Tax to replace most or better ALL existing taxes - fuel duty, Income Tax and NI, VAT. Make fossil fuels pay their full cost, and the renewable subsidies could be discontinued much sooner.

 

Slide 13 of the 2011 IEA World Energy Outlook - "Renewable subsidies of $66 billion in 2010 (compared with $409 billion for fossil fuels)"

http://www.worldenergyoutlook.org/docs/weo2011/homepage/WEO2011_Press_Launch_London.pdf

 

Slide 77 of 2011 BP Energy Outlook 2030 "The contribution of renewables to energy growth increases from 5% (1990-2010) to 18% (2010-2030)."

 

http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/reports_and_publications/statistical_energy_review_2011/STAGING/local_assets/pdf/2030_energy_outlook_booklet.pdf

 

World's liquid fuel supplies - this is from a 2010 presentation by Glenn Sweetnam of the US Department of Energy.

http://wnknisely.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b57769e201310ff4b929970c-popup

 

In that world context, a place like Shetland with almost infinite renewable power on it's doorstep will prosper - indefinitely when oil is gone (and that's a while yet). I have no doubt of that. IF the naysayers can be faced down.

[unlinkedstudent]

^ We have a UK Government?

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

I don't agree about the idea that "a minority are angry and hurt about it". I believe that this is far from the true picture. If the much debated, debunked and ridiculed ST poll is to be believed, then opinion is divided. 31%, 36% and 33%, undecided, for and against respectively. There is no majority on any side of the argument. I could say 64% of people do not support the windfarm... but I'll not.

 

These are the numbers VE quote, despite ridiculing a previous similar poll that showed more people objected. So, don't paint a picture of majority support because it is not true:

 

http://www.shetlandtimes.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Overall_Result-100x107.jpg

 

The link paulb posted above about Trump, taking the p*ss, in his treatment of locals next to his sand dune wrecking golf course is interesting in that the reaction from readers is total anger towards the developer... and that's my reaction after reading the article, total anger, what a nasty bully.

 

The reaction should not be too dissimilar towards Viking Energy having followed their plans for 5 years and experienced their process from the perspective of an interested member of the public. It heightens my anger after reading about treatment people like this and their fears and this is years before this construction is likely to begin (the words time and bomb come to mind). I don't see this as a minority emotive issue, or making "tragic photos for the Shetland News", but a real problem. In the light of issues such as these, I can't say that I'm even remotely interested in promises of untold riches.

 

I doubt if Trump (hero? paulb) had many planning conditions on treatment of neighbours, and what conditions are VE required to observe with regard to their neigbours?

[paulb]

just saying dont jump into bed with him he is not your saviour.

the foks in edenfied ancashire ran a very simular campaign with the councils support. they lost and it was built. there was a ot of disruption during buiding with the bits of turbines travelling through very tight roads but its now sorted.

 

the diffrence between trumpington links and VE is some of the money will go to the community. unlike master trumps dreams.

 

the poll in the times was the most reilistic view of pulic opinion on thhe farm.

 

now who beileves the wanabe council members will keep to there word. bet they don't they will discover that they have no choice but to vote it through.

[hairyian]

^ We have a UK Government?

 

Unfortunate, but true.

[hairyian]

I have watched Big Donny Trump in action.

Now, I will be the first to admit that I am not medically qualified, but in my opinion the man is suffering from some kind of medical problem ? Why? well 'he is the evidence' !

[derick]

In the light of issues such as these, I can't say that I'm even remotely interested in promises of untold riches.

 

It's not about 'untold riches' - it's about making sure Shetland survives as a living community, post oil and that people aren't forced to emigrate for work, as was the case during most of the past 150years.

 

The point I was trying to make is that future generations don't have a voice, and can't have their picture taken for the paper - but the project will clearly affect them. Obviously, I think positively.

 

My field of endeavour in the past 10 years has been building social rented housing. And guess what, Heath says No Surprise, we get lots of spurious objections. Every time. But the people on the waiting list, sleeping on somebody's couch or with their kids crammed into too few bedrooms don't have a voice - but their interest is real.

 

A third for, a third against and a third 'not bovvered' is pretty standard for any contentious issue. That doesn't make the third against a majority.

 

Petition to revoke Donald Trump's membership of Globalscot here

http://www.change.org/petitions/globalscot-withdraw-donald-trump-s-membership-of-globalscot

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

I don't think that the people in that SN article are soley worried about wide loads and disturbance in the construction phase. I think they are worried about living, in perpetuity, inside a windfarm or be it in close proximity, they have a lot to lose... and the people who should be helping their case can only see the money which makes it all too easy for them to ignore or turn a blind eye to their fate. As I said before, they are not the only people in this predicament, there are many more.

[PressedCurdsOfMilk]

It's not about 'untold riches' - it's about making sure Shetland survives as a living community, post oil and that people aren't forced to emigrate for work, as was the case during most of the past 150years.

 

The point I was trying to make is that future generations don't have a voice, and can't have their picture taken for the paper - but the project will clearly affect them. Obviously, I think positively.

 

I take your point and I respect your views on social housing. I hope the next council do a good job in that respect.

 

I have a perspective on future generations and my motivations as on objector are not without consideration of my children. I also think positively.

 

[edit] I'm also more than a bit concerned that we are already not doing a great job as a community given that this windfarm, years before being built, seems to be doing a good job at polarising opinion and causing such grief to many folk.