Blueprint for education consultation

[Styles]

They should shut as many schools as they can.

[khitajrah]

Styles, why?

[paulb]

he has been doing a lot of fishing of late.

 

you really think they are going to build a tunnel.

this new education system starts when. by the way the mate of mr clark did not know about the consultation does that tell us he may not have been the right person for the job. so are we going to be sending all our exam age kids to a school that's not built.

i personally think if you have enough kids to warrant a junior high up there then it should stay open. the last thing you want are kids staying in hostels. why should they.

[Shoogler]

The tunnel between Yell and Unst will be built before the Baltasound High stops teaching to S3 or 4 (depending on roll out of Curriculum for Excellence)

In my expereince island bairns have never had a problem with hostel life, bar one or two.

[trowie246]

^^^^ The first pupils to sit the new style exams are pupils currently in P7. So are you really saying a tunnel will be built between Unst and Yell by 2013? That would be fantastic!

[Styles]

Styles, why?

 

With the amazing roads/transport links and dwindeling school roles plus the crazy amount we spend here on education each year (30 million) I want as many schools as possible closed as its just not economical or practical with so many small schools.

 

An example was the Quarf school they were all up in arms about closeing it, it did not get closed but then had to close due to other factors and they all had to go to Cunningsburgh, but then they all admit that it was actually better and is working just fine.

 

Tonnes of schools were closed in the past in the south end and the same things were said but they all worked out just fine.

[trowie246]

Please read what has been written on this thread instead of what is been drip fed to you by the education dept.

 

At the risk of repeating myself here are a few reminders:

 

1. Shetlands birth rate has been increasing since 2001. The information is on the General register for Scotland.

 

2. I spoke to a parent from Quarff who said the bus driver frequently had to wake up the 5 year olds when they got home. She was not happy they lost their school but has had to accept the situation. Quarff will thrive, despite losing their school - because they are only 10-15mins from Lerwick.

 

3. The schools closed in the south end 60 years ago were all primary schools. They were no more than 5 miles from the new build - which was a purpose-built primary school. These areas most likely survived because of Sumburgh Airport and the jobs it created.

 

4. Even though the above situation worked there are many communities that lost their schools and did not thrive. For example, Culswick, Gruting and West Burrafirth on the westside.

[Trow87]

dwindeling school roles

 

styles, did du read da post at da top o dis page? school rolls are goin to increase, if onythin, ower da next few years!

as far as i'm concerned, i quite lik da fact dat we lots o good peerie schools, but i realise dat it canna be viable to keep dem aa open, an so some will hae ta be closed. da difficulty is decidin which wans arna viable on mair, despite dere bein a few which seem fairly obvious t maist. its a very touchy subject, an so it should be!

 

on da idder hand tho, dere's lotsa idder places dat da cooncil could mak savins instead o closin da schools (daft roondaboots to name one) but dis isna da place t go troo dem aa!

[stephen]

Spending on all public services in Shetland are too high. Education spending per pupil is hugely above the national average, and is un-sustainable with the drop in revenue from oil, and add in national cutbacks.

 

If the council keeps all these schools open they will have to slash spending on education and across all Council services in Shetland. That is the bottom line. They have no option as the subsidies will no longer be here... fact.

 

I don't like the idea of closing schools (in an indirect way it puts my career at risk), but it is a must.

 

That it perhaps the properties cost, but not the whole picture. Remember the school needs resources and licences too... and staff.

 

Head teacher - £40,290

Class teacher - £25, 113

ASN Auxiliary - £15,000

ASN Auxiliary - £15,000

Classroom As. - £13,000

Admin - £15,000

Supervisor - £5,000

 

Total staffing costs per year - £113, 403

 

These figures are bottom of the pay scale figures, and are likely to be much higher. They do not take into account visiting specialists or posts that are being advertised. They also don't take into account employer contributions. I would guestimate that the true staffing costs of Cullivoe is about £200,000 per year.

 

So, you can see that your £50,000 is really more like £1/4 million (over £20k per pupil, per year).

 

ASN staff will travel with the child to Mid Yell. They will not lose their jobs. This is also the same for visiting teachers - they visit different schools so they will not lose their jobs. The sum of £50,000 was the figure quoted to us when they tried to close Cullivoe school 3 years ago.

 

Unfortunately this is not accurate. ASN staff at larger schools can be allocated time with pupils according to their timetable (there is no need for support for some children during set lessons), thus splitting their time over a few kids. Visiting teachers will be reduced as they will re-draw the boundaries, resulting in 1 set (or perhaps more) of specialists being no longer required. Also, resources are shared in schools... ie. one set of 3D shapes will be shared amongst a class of 25, instead of a class of 4! Reducing the number of resources needed.

 

Ultimately, the money is no longer available to pay for the education provision that is here... unless island folk willingly pay [much] higher taxes. It is the same over most of Scotland... schools are being evaluated, closed and combined. Hate to say it but.... it has to happen...

[paulb]

so stephen vision is less schools worse pupil teacher ratio and worse resources.

what a wonderful vision well if your in favour of these improvements

i would recommend that your style needs a tadge of work. what parent is going to be willing to except that. the rebellion on the Anderson was one thing if your vision of the future education of our children is accurate then you have not seen nothing yet.

 

the small communities will put up a very tough fight if they think their kids are going to suffer. the councillors who represent the effected area need to think very carefully about this for there future political career depends on it.

[stephen]

so stephen vision is less schools worse pupil teacher ratio and worse resources.

what a wonderful vision well if your in favour of these improvements

i would recommend that your style needs a tadge of work. what parent is going to be willing to except that. the rebellion on the Anderson was one thing if your vision of the future education of our children is accurate then you have not seen nothing yet.

 

the small communities will put up a very tough fight if they think their kids are going to suffer. the councillors who represent the effected area need to think very carefully about this for there future political career depends on it.

 

Paulb, I would love the schools situation to stay the same, but financially it can not happen. Look at the money coming into SIC, it is dropping and will continue to do so. Cuts will be made, and I think closing schools is the right thing to do in certain circumstances.

 

Take Yell as an example - two schools. Anywhere else in Europe I would doubt you would find 2 schools in such a small geographic area with such low (in terms of Cullivoe) school rolls... it is a financial drain. One thing I have heard over and over again is "but its different here', which I can totally understand when you look at certain aspects (ie. High school provision), but primaries in smaller geographic areas - no.

 

You seem to think that I am talking about fewer resources.... that is nonsense. I merely was stating that having many small schools resources are needlessly duplicated. Teaching/ school admin posts are most certainly being duplicated at a high cost at the moment.

 

You talk about councillors political careers being devastated, if they don't act you will find SIC being bankrupted. As I said the money for education that Shetland had for education no longer exists. I heard that this year education budgets have been cut by 20% and this will continue to be increased. Perhaps if small communities that wish to keep the small, costly, schools (such as Cullivoe at £20k per pupil per year) should fund the extra costs above the region average themselves???

 

What could the council cut instead of education?

- Waste collection?

- Parks?

- Roads budget?

- Bus funding?

- Ferries?

- Inter island flights?

- Street lighting?

- Housing?

- Social care?

 

I truly love Shetland, but almost nothing can exist up here without government subsidies, and as there is less money for the government to play with - what should they get rid off? My point is education funding can be cut back by amalgamating schools and resources, in many cases giving children a better standard of learning (search Athens for the copious amounts of theory).

[MuckleJoannie]

I heard Brian Smith on Radio Shetland last night say that there was a sizeable number of councillors who are willing to cut costs by cutting services. This may be a subject for them to start flexing their muscles.

[Shoogler]

Before shutting any schools we should be cutting back on the 'extras' within the overall curriculum and also looking at head office management andf admin costs first.

So, that means the plethora of non core curriculum teaching, such as bloody coasteering, etc, knitting, daft drama, active schools coordinators, african drumming, you get my drift. Plus we should accept that a class size above whatever the national average is can't be bad in the type of well resourced schools we have.

I would love to see a lot more cost details for the education service, done by an independant audtor rather than in house. then we would know where the true 'extra' cost of education in Shetland is.

 

Secondary reorganisation should be possible to an extent as the savings from shutting smaller primaries are miniscule - and primary schools keep communities alive

[jimmy parks]

From what I can gather the real proposals are:

 

1. Close Uyeasound primary and Baltasound secondary.

2. Close Burravoe primary and have Mid Yell secondary until end of S3.

3. Close Olnafirth primary and amalgamate Urafirth and North Roe with Ollaberry.

4. Aith secondary until end of S3 and amalgamate Skeld, Happyhansel and Sandness (new build)

5. Close Skerries secondary.

6. Whalsay secondary until end of S3.

 

7. Those are the ones I remember. Don't know about Scalloway.

 

1. Fine.

2. Fine but should be until end of S4.

3. Fine.

4. Fine.

5. Definitely!!

6. Fine.

7. Close Scalloway.

[shetlander]

As per my earlier posts on this subject, I am with stephen on this one.

 

This debate cannot keep being reinacted every year or two and something has got to give at some point. Just because they are seen to be a good thing, the cost implications of keeping small schools going cannot just be ignored. If cuts aren't made in education they will have to be made somewhere else and I have no doubt that people benefitting from those services will feel that they have just as strong a case for those to be left alone too.

 

Councillors, its time to bite the bullet and start realising there is a large but silent majority of folk out there who will pat you on the back for finally having the balls to make some hard but necessary decisions on this.